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and then

Florida's Stand your ground to be tested

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and then

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-parking-lot-shooting-raises-questions-about-states-stand-your-ground-law/

This case will probably be a strong test of the stand your ground law in many states.  For those not familiar, an altercation occurred in the parking lot of a convenience store in Florida and a man was left dead after physically assaulting a stranger.  The stranger was an older, white guy who had a habit of confronting people who improperly parked in Handicap spaces.  The lot was mostly empty but the woman driver chose to park in the handicap space and after walking around the vehicle to see if it had a permit and not finding one, he began to tell the young woman she was breaking the law.  Her husband came out of the store and attacked the guy with no warning, shoving him to the ground very forcefully.  He then took a couple of steps back.  The guy who got shoved to the ground reached back, pulled a pistol and put one in the guy's chest.  The young guy died.

The CCTV video shows the altercation but has no sound.  The older guy says he was in fear for his life.  The local cops declined to arrest him because of the "Stand your ground" laws in FLA.  It's a shame that the guy had to die but I think he escalated the situation far beyond what he needed to.  It seems like this probably wasn't the first time he went straight to overreaction... but it certainly was his last time to do so.  What say Y'all?  Should a person be able to use deadly force if they are in fear for their life?  I say yes.  

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Farmer77
4 minutes ago, and then said:

What say Y'all?  Should a person be able to use deadly force if they are in fear for their life?  I say yes. 

Not if the "fear" is from a situation they caused, as is the case in this shooting. 

IMO if you start trash while carrying a gun you are culpable for the end result, period end of discussion. 

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and then
2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Not if the "fear" is from a situation they caused, as is the case in this shooting. 

IMO if you start trash while carrying a gun you are culpable for the end result, period end of discussion. 

Speaking your mind doesn't justify the force this guy used.  He was a young hothead and he got smooth laid low for his mouth.  He could have spoken to the old guy and warned him off, asked him what the problem was...anything except laying hands on him.  Not a good idea where I live.  Like the man said - "Life is like a box of chocolates... you never know what you gonna get".  In this case, it was a hot slug in the chest.  

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Wickian

If he does get off with a Stand Your Ground defense, it will be just barely within the confines of that law.  Being attacked and knocked to the ground unawares and very roughly by a much younger man could potentially make him fear for his life when all he was doing was nagging them for breaking the law and parking in a handicap spot.  Given the second or two he hesitates with the man not advancing on him before he shot though, I don't think he'll get that defense.

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Grey Area

Personally I think this is incredibly open to abuse.  I don't see how this guy will get away with it.

Essentially this example gives anyone the freedom to provoke a confrontation with someone and then murder them.

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Farmer77
10 minutes ago, and then said:

Speaking your mind doesn't justify the force this guy used.  He was a young hothead and he got smooth laid low for his mouth.  He could have spoken to the old guy and warned him off, asked him what the problem was...anything except laying hands on him.  Not a good idea where I live.  Like the man said - "Life is like a box of chocolates... you never know what you gonna get".  In this case, it was a hot slug in the chest.  

The man who was killed was inside when another customer came inside to tell the manager to call the cops because the shooter was harassing a woman in a car. Watch the video, the husband came out to see the dude in his wife's face, a shove was appropriate, and frankly your man card should be repealed if you wouldn't have done the same.

Further If you cant handle being shoved you probably shouldn't be creating situations such as this. Thats a huge problem with folks carrying guns, they can become fearless and stupid. 

The clincher though is the clear evidence that the husband wasn't advancing on the shooter when he pulled the trigger. 

This one may pass for a time but once sober folks return to the DOJ I cant imagine they wont be looking into this. 

 

Edited by Farmer77
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Miss Meeseeks
23 minutes ago, and then said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-parking-lot-shooting-raises-questions-about-states-stand-your-ground-law/

This case will probably be a strong test of the stand your ground law in many states.  For those not familiar, an altercation occurred in the parking lot of a convenience store in Florida and a man was left dead after physically assaulting a stranger.  The stranger was an older, white guy who had a habit of confronting people who improperly parked in Handicap spaces.  The lot was mostly empty but the woman driver chose to park in the handicap space and after walking around the vehicle to see if it had a permit and not finding one, he began to tell the young woman she was breaking the law.  Her husband came out of the store and attacked the guy with no warning, shoving him to the ground very forcefully.  He then took a couple of steps back.  The guy who got shoved to the ground reached back, pulled a pistol and put one in the guy's chest.  The young guy died.

The CCTV video shows the altercation but has no sound.  The older guy says he was in fear for his life.  The local cops declined to arrest him because of the "Stand your ground" laws in FLA.  It's a shame that the guy had to die but I think he escalated the situation far beyond what he needed to.  It seems like this probably wasn't the first time he went straight to overreaction... but it certainly was his last time to do so.  What say Y'all?  Should a person be able to use deadly force if they are in fear for their life?  I say yes.  

Of cause! Now a days justice has failed many which in most cases ppl decide its better to place justice into their hands. 

I believe the disabled guy had evry right to do what he did. I didnt do anything wrong. He just went ti see if they had a permit in which they didnt. 

The young man reacted in a hostile just because he was about to get caught for something. 

 

Edited by Browng0at
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Grey Area
11 minutes ago, and then said:

Speaking your mind doesn't justify the force this guy used.  He was a young hothead and he got smooth laid low for his mouth.  He could have spoken to the old guy and warned him off, asked him what the problem was...anything except laying hands on him.  Not a good idea where I live.  Like the man said - "Life is like a box of chocolates... you never know what you gonna get".  In this case, it was a hot slug in the chest.  

It never ceases to amaze me the cold and casual way many American's talk about loss of life inflicted upon one another, it's almost as if a person's death inflicted by another person with a firearm is some sort of terminal illness.

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Farmer77
4 minutes ago, Browng0at said:

I believe the disabled guy had evry right to do what he did. I didnt do anything wrong. He just went ti see if they had a peemit in which they didnt. 

Not quite. He was harassing the family who was parked in the spot and this isn't the first time he's done so:

Girlfriend Of ‘Stand Your Ground’ Shooting Victim Says Gunman ‘Was Picking A Fight’

Quote

ABC reported that the owner of the convenience store, who was not named, has previously called the police to report Drejka for confronting customers over parking.

 

Dude was looking for a fight and when he got one he murdered someone rather than actually fight. 

 

Edited by Farmer77
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Miss Meeseeks
1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

Not quite. He was harassing the family who was parked in the spot and this isn't the first time he's done so:

Girlfriend Of ‘Stand Your Ground’ Shooting Victim Says Gunman ‘Was Picking A Fight’

 

 

 

But what sort of parking? If it was just a regular parking not for those who are handicaped then theres no excuse. 

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Miss Meeseeks
2 minutes ago, Grey Area said:

It never ceases to amaze me the cold and casual way many American's talk about loss of life inflicted upon one another, it's almost as if a person's death inflicted by another person with a firearm is some sort of terminal illness.

Thats the sort of dark and evil world we live in these days...

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Farmer77
Just now, Browng0at said:

But what sort of parking? If it was just a regular parking not for those who are handicaped then theres no excuse. 

It was handicap parking. Which as one who suffers from an "invisible illness" I can tell you definitely invites a certain type of character to get involved. 

Regardless of the parking you cant start a fight and then murder the person you started the fight with because you got scared …..at least and not face some form of punishment. 

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freetoroam

Why shoot him? Was the young guy armed? Did he pull out a gun too?

Surely if the older guy felt he had to pull out his gun, point the gun, if the young guy does not back off then shoot him in the leg or arm, but the chest?!!!really?!!!

Ok the woman lost her husband, but she should still get fined for parking in a disabled spot, sorry, i can not stand people who do that and the law is the law. The husband got shot for being a hot head, she should be fined for parking in the wrong place. 

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Kismit
3 minutes ago, Browng0at said:

But what sort of parking? If it was just a regular parking not for those who are handicaped then theres no excuse. 

um, nope even parking in handicapped parking does not excuse murder

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Grey Area
Just now, Browng0at said:

Thats the sort of dark and evil world we live in these days...

That's the sort of dark and evil world we perpetuate.  Again, here is the coldness, the casual acceptance that rather than this being a behaviour and choices made people, it's just the way it is no better or worse than the heat of the desert or the cold of the ice caps.

Don't get me wrong, violence has a place, but when extremes become the norm, that's something else.

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RoofGardener

The gunman was in the wrong. End of. 

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freetoroam
16 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Not quite. He was harassing the family who was parked in the spot and this isn't the first time he's done so:

Girlfriend Of ‘Stand Your Ground’ Shooting Victim Says Gunman ‘Was Picking A Fight’

 

Dude was looking for a fight and when he got one he murdered someone rather than actually fight. 

 

Jeeze...how many people think they can park where ever they like round there? If they can not read the signs, they should not be on the road. 

The guy was not looking for a fight, he was just peeved off that someone thought they can park where ever they blooming well feel like and no one is going to tell them otherwise, well, soneone did....good!

Drivers like that have a bad attitude and have no respect for others or the laws....no justifying that.........but no justifying shooting him in the chest either, is this why he carried a gun on him, to shoot dead people who park in the wrong spot?

Edited by freetoroam
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psyche101
36 minutes ago, and then said:

Speaking your mind doesn't justify the force this guy used.  He was a young hothead and he got smooth laid low for his mouth.  He could have spoken to the old guy and warned him off, asked him what the problem was...anything except laying hands on him.  Not a good idea where I live.  Like the man said - "Life is like a box of chocolates... you never know what you gonna get".  In this case, it was a hot slug in the chest.  

Am I reading this right? 

You are condoning murder? 

In a civilised place, the charge would be assault, not a death sentence. 

It dead set chills me to the bone to even think anyone would condone this. The guy should get whatever the sentence if for murder in that state. That's what this was, a murder. 

And in front of his own kid. That shooter is a disgusting example of a human being, I hope he gets the book thrown at him. 

Gun culture breeds a complacency that is inhuman, I can't see how this is not proof of that. 

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freetoroam
18 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

It was handicap parking. Which as one who suffers from an "invisible illness" I can tell you definitely invites a certain type of character to get involved. 

Regardless of the parking you cant start a fight and then murder the person you started the fight with because you got scared …..at least and not face some form of punishment. 

I agree he should not have shot him dead, but he did not start the fight, the couple who disrespects others and the rules started it.......with their attutude and by pushing him. 

Bad all rounder this one. 

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Farmer77
10 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

Drivers like that have a bad attitude and have no respect for others or the laws....no justifying that.........but no justifying shooting him in the chest either, is this why he carried a gun on him, to shoot dead people who park in the wrong spot?

Considering that we know the convenient store manager has had to call the cops on the shooter for harassing folks over parking spots in the past I think you may be correct. That's where the "looking for a fight" argument starts to make sense. 

 

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ouija ouija

In the video it shows that the parking lot is almost empty. In fact, there are empty spaces closer to the door of the shop than the one the victim parked in, so if someone with a handicap badge drove in they would certainly not be inconvenienced. If I drove into that  nearly empty lot and knew I would be in the shop for a matter of minutes(they were just buying snacks), I wouldn't have thought twice about parking where they were parked. The older guy needs to be stopped from harassing people ...... it's none of his business who parks where. And it certainly isn't his business to go killing people because of where they're parked. There are now three children without a father; how many of them will grow up with a huge chip on their shoulder(and the possible consequences of that), when they realise why their father died? As FTR said, why couldn't he have shot him in the leg or the arm if he truly felt in danger?

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Setton

Cold blooded murder is what it is. 

And anyone defending it is almost as bad. 

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freetoroam
1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

Considering that we know the convenient store manager has had to call the cops on the shooter for harassing folks over parking spots in the past I think you may be correct. That's where the "looking for a fight" argument starts to make sense. 

 

Then the store owner had better review his signs if he is not going to enforce the rules himself.

You can not let people  ignore the signs, so if the store takes no notice of them and drivers know this, then one day someone who obeys the signs will say something out of frustration.....this was that day.

It is likely others have also told others not to park there, as we have seen, parking in thise spaces by people who should not, seems to be a regular thing,  

We are only hearing about this one because it did go too far. 

The store owner needs to prevent this happening again...like....enforce the signs or take them down. 

 

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Kittens Are Jerks

The shots were fired out of anger, not fear. I don't see how the shooter could in any way claim he was in imminent danger when the victim was backing away and turning from him when he was shot. There is no justifying this.

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