Florida's Stand your ground to be tested

[skliss]

2 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

You don't even have to be disabled, any other guy could do this to any other guy too.

True, I was just thinking that in this particular man the fear might be more....ramped up....than in another. 

[Setton]

23 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

In this case there is video and law enforcement sided with the shooter. 

Like I said, supposed to. 

And the case isn't over. 

[freetoroam]

1 minute ago, lost_shaman said:

You wouldn't be alone in that regard. This clearly figures into whether the shooting was justified or not. 

We have no sound but clearly someone (likely from the store)  is already talking to Drejka....so if McGlockton knew it was him who had harassed his wife, why did he not call the police? There were 2 people now confronting Drejka, one verbally and one physically. .

 what was it he said to the wife to be classed as harassment? "You can not park in a disabled bay madam"  is not harassment "f.off i will park where i like" is also not the right answer. But i am speculating there as we do not have the full details, what we do have is a guy being spoken to (at that stage he is not near the wife) and some big mean looking guy comes up to him and pushes him.

Who would not be scared? 

But shoot to kill? what happened before and did McGlockton threaten him verbally? 

[lost_shaman]

3 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

did McGlockton threaten him verbally? 

You can clearly see him saying something between the time the gun is drawn and before the shot is fired. Of course as I said if he had turned away and been shot in the back it would be a case of manslaughter. 

[Dark_Grey]

25 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

We have no sound but clearly someone (likely from the store)  is already talking to Drejka....so if McGlockton knew it was him who had harassed his wife, why did he not call the police? 

Why would he call the Police? If I was in his position and saw through the store window a man harassing my wife, calling the Police wouldn't even cross my mind. I would be out there in a heartbeat with serious questions for the perturbed old man. The Police have enough on their plates to not worry about a little altercation. Besides, were they all going to stand in the parking lot for 6+ minutes until the Cops arrived?

For most sane people, carrying a gun is a huge responsibility that actually helps to prevent situations from getting heated before the gun is ever drawn. Unless you're a crazy psycho looking for an excuse to kill, you don't want to have to use extreme force on anyone. No "Joe Six-pack", father of 4 wants to take someones life over an argument. Unfortunately, the world is a mixed bag of nuts and every once in a while, you run in to the wrong type of guy with a gun.

Now, there is an argument to made for more concealed carry as the victim may have stood a chance but I doubt it. Not after being surprised with a shot in the chest. This old man sounds like an office mass shooter in waiting. He knew he had the power to take a life and he went in to the situation pushing buttons anyways. Maybe he fought in Korea and was suffering from PTSD, maybe his wife died 2 weeks ago - we don't know. 

I'm a huge believer in something called "personal responsibility" and this guy, the shooter, was a POS for what he did. His life was never threatened and I'm sure he knew that. It will be interesting to see how this case unfolds for lawful gun ownership.

[+ouija ouija]

1 hour ago, freetoroam said:

By the looks of in the video, Drejka is talking to someone at the door, McGlockton walks up from the side and shoves Drejka, chances are Drejka may not even have known it was his car.

Some big black guy comes upto you and shoves you??? Hmm...dodgy situation to be in. 

 

50 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

We have no sound but clearly someone (likely from the store)  is already talking to Drejka....so if McGlockton knew it was him who had harassed his wife, why did he not call the police? There were 2 people now confronting Drejka, one verbally and one physically. .

 what was it he said to the wife to be classed as harassment? "You can not park in a disabled bay madam"  is not harassment "f.off i will park where i like" is also not the right answer. But i am speculating there as we do not have the full details, what we do have is a guy being spoken to (at that stage he is not near the wife) and some big mean looking guy comes up to him and pushes him.

Who would not be scared? 

But shoot to kill? what happened before and did McGlockton threaten him verbally? 

^ ^ in bold Whoa! You (and Shaman), need to get a grip here. You're gradually escalating things with your posts that are nothing to do with reality.

The guy is of average height and build ...... and what has his colour got to do with anything? You're harassing a woman and someone comes and intervenes ..... why are you surprised?

How do you know he is 'mean looking'? He certainly isn't 'big', just average. Oh, and the shooter isn't small!

[aztek]

from what i see on the video, i see absolutely no case for SYG laws, it was pure self defense, seems like some, most likely liberals, want to remove it, thus misuse it, just like they tried in Zimmerman case, which also was not SYG case.

 

[Vorg]

So now every time someone gets pushed in an altercation, you can shoot them. Got it.

[lost_shaman]

15 minutes ago, aztek said:

from what i see on the video, i see absolutely no case for SYG laws, it was pure self defense, seems like some, most likely liberals, want to remove it, thus misuse it, just like they tried in Zimmerman case, which also was not SYG case.

That's true. Zimmerman was on the ground therefore he never incited SYG laws in his defense. This case is similar in that the shooter was violently knocked to the ground and had no means to further retreat for the threat. 

Sheriff Gualtieri emphasized that this wasn’t a small push: “This wasn’t a shove, this wasn’t just a tap. He slammed him to the ground.” -https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/7/23/17602312/stand-your-ground-florida-michael-drejka-markeis-mcglockton

"This is a key point with “stand your ground” laws: They are only relevant if you can safely retreat from an attack. If you can’t safely retreat, a more standard self-defense law will protect your use of force. If you can safely retreat, a “stand your ground” law is needed to justify use of force — unless you’re in your home, where a “castle doctrine” law may apply."

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by lost_shaman

[Robotic Jew]

6 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

So now every time someone gets pushed in an altercation, you can shoot them. Got it.

This is America. We are constantly adding to the list of what constitutes a death sentence. Our blood lust knows no limit.

[freetoroam]

57 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

 

^ ^ in bold Whoa! You (and Shaman), need to get a grip here. You're gradually escalating things with your posts that are nothing to do with reality.

The guy is of average height and build ...... and what has his colour got to do with anything? You're harassing a woman and someone comes and intervenes ..... why are you surprised?

How do you know he is 'mean looking'? He certainly isn't 'big', just average. Oh, and the shooter isn't small!

He sure does give a good shove.

Had it been a big mean looking white man i would have said the same thing.

How do i know he is mean looking? He was not skipping up to Drejka singing yanky doodle dandy!

From what i see in the video..McGlockton comes from the side and shoves him while he was being spoken to by someone at the door. Likely being told off for telling people not to park there as he has been before. 

We do not know what happened before this, the son is not with him and he does not come out the door where Drejka is. 

Do not get me wrong, i am not condoning him being shot in the chest, but are you really saying if some big black guy you do know comes up to you in FLORIDA where many people have a gun and shoves you on the ground, you would not poop your pants? I certainly would at least do a little pee  ....  but i would also not shoot him in the chest.

My point is, i think we are missing something in the video. 

McGlockton did NOT intervene when Drejka was harassing his wife, he pushed him when he was being spoken to. The store were dealing with him.. 

1 hour ago, Dark_Grey said:

Why would he call the Police?

The same reason people are saying Drejka should have taken the registration number down and called the police. Does not seem they have much faith in the police round there.

It should never have got to this stage, but people are entitled to tell people not to park in certain spots, i do, but agreed...they have no right to shoot them in the chest and no one has a right to lay their hands on someone, unless i am misunderstanding and people are saying McGlockton did have a right to push him even though he did not know what Drejka had said to the wife and the store were now dealing with it.

Note, the store had previously called the police on him, he should not have been allowed to return. But there was no need for McGlockton to just walk up to him and push him....hence as mentioned, what did happen prior, if anything? If nothing, then McGlockton took a heck of a chance in an area where people have guns.

Edited July 25, 2018 by freetoroam

[aztek]

14 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

So now every time someone gets pushed in an altercation, you can shoot them. Got it.

yes,  do not push, knock people down, you may get shot,  or if you do, make sure they are not able to retaliate. if the attacker did not walk away after pushing the guy, but kicked him and knocked him out, he would be alive. there was enough time, and it was pretty clear the guy was reaching for the gun. but he walked away and gave him time and opportunity to shoot.

[aztek]

12 minutes ago, Robotic Jew said:

This is America. We are constantly adding to the list of what constitutes a death sentence. Our blood lust knows no limit.

absolutely, criminals know no bounds and will kill you for a fiver, so you have to act fast and make split second decision, your life depends on it,  the guy who knocked you down may walk away, but may also come back and finish you off, it happens daily in usa, so yea, shooting and killing is situation like that is appropriate. do not start fights and you will not be shot, and if someone is picking one with you, finish it asap, to prevent any possible injuries, or death

[lost_shaman]

3 minutes ago, aztek said:

yes,  do not push, knock people down, you may get shot,

A lot of people on this thread seem to think McGlockton had the "moral" right to physically assault Drejka for verbally arguing with his girlfriend.  

[freetoroam]

1 minute ago, lost_shaman said:

A lot of people on this thread seem to think McGlockton had the "moral" right to physically assault Drejka for verbally arguing with his girlfriend.  

As we have said before, we do not know what he said to her. We do not know if he was polite and she screamed back at him. But we do know that when McGlockton pushed him, he was no longer next to the wife and kids and was being spoken to by someone at the door. 

So why did McGlockton have to go and push him....infront of his kids aswell!!? Is this how you show your kids how to deal with people, when there is no danger, go shove them anyway? Especially in a state where many people have a gun!!!

 

[lost_shaman]

8 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

Is this how you show your kids how to deal with people, when there is no danger, go shove them anyway?

Obviously in this thread many seem to think this is the "moral" way to "protect" your loved ones from a verbal argument in a parking lot. 

[freetoroam]

1 minute ago, lost_shaman said:

Obviously in this thread many seem to think this is the "moral" way to "protect" your loved ones from a verbal argument in a parking lot. 

But it was not just a verbal argument, when it was being sorted, McGlockton went in with the physical from the side. What he should have done was got into his car and driven off, with his son who i assume is still in the shop because he is not with his dad at that stage.....and the store should have told Drejka to leave and not come back, then people can park where ever they like.

What did McGlockton think he was going to achieve by doing that? He was in the store at the time so not even he knew what was said at the car but we know Drejka was not at the car by the time he got out.

If it had been me and Drejka had been at my car, i imagine my husband would have had some severe words with him, but thinking about it, i doubt my husband would have laid his hands on him....1st.

But it would never happen to me because i do not have that - i can park where i like and push who i like' attitude.

But but but, the children have lost their father, i so hope they do not grow up with a gun in their pocket incase someone tries to shoot them if they hit them first.

This is sad and so crazy.

[lost_shaman]

15 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

What did McGlockton think he was going to achieve by doing that?

Well, you can see so many people here on this thread think he had a "moral" right, if not a "duty", to physically attack Drejka for arguing with his girlfriend. McGlockton probably thought just like these people posting here think. 

Edited July 25, 2018 by lost_shaman

[+ouija ouija]

50 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

 

Had it been a big mean looking white man i would have said the same thing

Again: what has colour got to do with anything? IMO you would not have said: "If you were approached by a big white man".

How do i know he is mean looking? He was not skipping up to Drejka singing yanky doodle dandy!

He's just walking! What can you see in the video that suggests he is mean looking?

From what i see in the video..McGlockton comes from the side and shoves him while he was being spoken to by someone at the door. Likely being told off for telling people not to park there as he has been before. 

When McGlockton pushes Drejka, Drejka is very close to McGlockton's wife who is opening the car door ...... possibly even touching her. 

Do not get me wrong, i am not condoning him being shot in the chest, but are you really saying if some big black guy you do know comes up to you in FLORIDA where many people have a gun and shoves you on the ground, you would not poop your pants? I certainly would at least do a little pee  ....  but i would also not shoot him in the chest.

 There you go again! What has colour got to do with this?! 

McGlockton did NOT intervene when Drejka was harassing his wife, he pushed him when he was being spoken to. The store were dealing with him.. 

He most certainly did! Drejka was right up close to McGlockton's wife when McGlockton pushed him. Oh, and if you look carefully you will see that Drejka and McGlockton are pretty much the same height and build.

It should never have got to this stage, but people are entitled to tell people not to park in certain spots, i do, but agreed...they have no right to shoot them in the chest and no one has a right to lay their hands on someone, unless i am misunderstanding and people are saying McGlockton did have a right to push him even though he did not know what Drejka had said to the wife and the store were now dealing with it.

I've missed something ...... in what way were the store 'dealing with it'?

 

 

[lost_shaman]

5 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

possibly even touching her. 

No he is not. In fact she is advancing on him, getting out of the car,  distracting him from her boyfriend shes sees coming out of the store about to bum rush Drejka.

Edited July 25, 2018 by lost_shaman

[Myles]

The woman broke the law.

The man who did the shoving broke the law.

The shooter may have broken the law. 

I think the shove was assault that was not needed or warranted.   I also think the shooter overreacted and should be charged with something.   When he pointed the gun, it had the effect that was needed.   The guy backed off. 

[Dark_Grey]

1 hour ago, lost_shaman said:

A lot of people on this thread seem to think McGlockton had the "moral" right to physically assault Drejka for verbally arguing with his girlfriend.  

lol "physically assault". He shoved him to the ground. He didn't sucker punch him in the face, though he could have. So in that respect, McGlockton did show some restraint.

We don't know how intense the conversation was between Drejka and the wife. We don't know how loudly Drejka was screaming. He may have pounded his fists on the glass, or the hood, maybe he was flailing his arms. Either way, whatever Drejka was doing obviously provoked a reaction from the husband. Like I said, McGlockton didn't begin the conversation with his fist though he could have. It sounds like he was afraid for his wife and his first instinct was to move this crazy a-hole away from their car. When you have your kids with you, everything is ramped up a notch because of their dependence on you. 

The more I think about it, the more I think a good hard shove is what I would have done. Drejka could have avoided all of this if he had minded his own damn business instead of wandering the Earth with his gun looking for parking infractions.

Quote

"All my man was trying to do was protect his girl like anybody else would, stand by his family's side," Jacobs said.

"All my man was trying to do was protect his girl" - now we know why he didn't wait for the Police and why he "physically assaulted" Drejka. 

Do you have a family, lost_shaman?

[lost_shaman]

6 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

lol "physically assault". He shoved him to the ground. He didn't sucker punch him in the face, though he could have. So in that respect, McGlockton did show some restraint.

Here is what the Sheriff said about this. "This wasn’t a shove, this wasn’t just a tap. He slammed him to the ground.”

[+ouija ouija]

53 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

As we have said before, we do not know what he said to her. We do not know if he was polite and she screamed back at him. But we do know that when McGlockton pushed him,he was no longer next to the wife and kids and was being spoken to by someone at the door.

You seem to be looking at a completely different video to me. Two kids are in the car, the wife is opening the car door, Drejka  is very close to her, McGlockton comes along and pushes him. Where do you get the idea that he was being spoken to by someone at the door? You can't hear that because there's no sound.

So why did McGlockton have to go and push him....infront of his kids aswell!!? Is this how you show your kids how to deal with people, when there is no danger, go shove them anyway? Especially in a state where many people have a gun!!!

Of course there was a possibility of danger! What was he supposed to do ...... wait to see what happened next? The wife was opening the car door(to get in?), Drejka is right close to her.

 

 

[lost_shaman]

9 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

We don't know how intense the conversation was between Drejka and the wife. We don't know how loudly Drejka was screaming. He may have pounded his fists on the glass, or the hood, maybe he was flailing his arms. Either way, whatever Drejka was doing obviously provoked a reaction from the husband.

We know he didn't do those things because we have video. You are just making excuses for physical violence. McGlockton's reaction should have been "Hey man what's the problem." But that never happened because he went straight to physical violence and that changes everything.