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Florida's Stand your ground to be tested

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Golden Duck
38 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

These are your opinions. And you are entiteled to them, just as I am entitled to mine. That said, what about handicapped people that might want to stop and the Store and decide not to because they see the handicapped space already taken? Do you really believe most handicapped people would know it's just a 20 something year old and pull up and roll down their window and ask them to move? That really stretches the imagination if you ask me!

Why not? A similar thing happened to me with pram parking. I was at my car strike a young make was trying park next to me. I was just watching to make sure I was clear. He must've taken as a look of disdain, felt guilty, and looked for another space.

You get more flies with honey than vinegar.

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Farmer77
8 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

Not sure what you're going on about re: in Bold,

I confess im not really a South Park fan but you must watch the video to understand the stereotype you are playing to. Its a running joke in the show 

 

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lost_shaman
15 hours ago, skliss said:

So I was with you up until this...as a woman, we walk around EVERY DAY knowing that every man we see could potentially overwhelm and or kill us if they feel like it. You have absolutely no idea what that's like. We learn early on how to compromise and get along because we really have to to survive. Thats one of the reasons I can identify with this disabled guy. He is probably constantly on watch knowing he's vulnerable, just like we are.

I'm sorry you feel that way about what I said I truly am. And I do have an Idea of how you feel. The majority of my family are women, I'm only one of three men in a family of around 20 female Cousins, and two Sisters. I'm all of 5'6'' if I stand completely as tall as I can stretch, and around 160 lbs. Almost every Man I meet is larger and taller than I am with a greater reach than I have. I walk around with a crocked Nose because some idiot in a stolen Car sucker punched me when I confronted him Stalking around my Parents house, by the time I got to the ER the Dr. refused to set it. So now I have a crocked nose because I'm a single father of two Girls and all my extra money had to go to them as opposed to spending a few thousand dollars to have a Surgeon re-break my Nose and re-set it, so I just live with it. I've also had my Skull fractured around the orbital of my right eye when another young 19 year old Idiot sucker punched me. Two years ago I had my Ribs broken by one of my Daughters Boyfriend when I tried to break up a Fight between them in my own house! So yes, I do have an IDEA what it's like to walk around being the smaller person in most situations in life. 

That said, my point that I was trying to make is that I don't believe most Females really understand that when two Men fight it is usually a very serious situation that can turn out very badly very quickly, typically when two Females physically fight no-one ends up in the Emergency Room. But when two Males fight this is quite likely to be the case. Thus the point I was attempting to make is that I believe many Females may simply not truly understand the gravity of the physical violence that two Men can inflict upon one another when things turn into a true Fight. 

This is certainly even more true when some Thug like McGlockton doesn't have the cohones to confront another Man, but takes them by surprise with a violent blind side attack. I've been on the receiving end of more than one Thug's blind side attack in my life even though I'm the smaller guy. So again I'm truly sorry you took offense to the point I was making, but I stand by my statements. This is also why I too like Drejka also carry a fire arm with me now. 

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skliss
12 hours ago, psyche101 said:
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Yeah, well it's not fair in the majority of men to see us all as potential rapists and thieves either, really doesn't help the situation stereotyping every male on the planet because a minority act badly. Do you consider all Muslims radical terrorists with bombs strapped to their chests? Because that's the sort of stereotyping men have to live through over a minority who let us down in society. As unfathomable as it may seem to some, we are disgusted by those deplorables too. 

Ironically, Brittany Jacobs was in that very situation. She had a mental case yelling at her over a car park when she was not even the driver. Turns out this fruit loop was armed. So her perceived danger was very real. 

Yet your siding with the killer here? I honestly feels that shows suspension of judgement and contradiction to your reasoning in order to support gun culture blindly. Just another reason to see it in an even dimmer light. 

Drejka wasnt disabled, had he been he might have had cause to complain, it seems he was parked illegally himself yet you don't see the irony here. He was 47, which is 4 yesrs younger than I am, and I can run a kilometer, push a 100kg sled, bench my bodyweight and backsquat it too, and deadlift 115 kilos. You people thinking a 47 year old is a decrepit old person in a wheelchair are entirely unrealistic. Wait till you get there. 

I'm about 10 years older than him and I do physical exercise every day. I am also aware that other people, even those younger than I, are not in the same shape and can be disabled...that has nothing to do with age. There is so much written that I'm not sure now if he was disabled...maybe he has a family member that is, thus the disgust for those who park in reserved spaces. 

And while you are offended that we women have to keep the fact that we are physically outmatched by men in the back of our my minds at all times, that's our reality. Does it mean every guy is bad, obviously not, but we survive by knowing it's a possibility. I can't afford to be mistaken. Sorry if it hurts your feelings.

I'm not siding with either of them that's the difference here. Both sides are culpable in what happened. I'm saying that I can understand the fear that could lead to the actions taken. Unfortunately you only see thru one lens....as usual.

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skliss
1 hour ago, lost_shaman said:

I'm sorry you feel that way about what I said I truly am. And I do have an Idea of how you feel. The majority of my family are women, I'm only one of three men in a family of around 20 female Cousins, and two Sisters. I'm all of 5'6'' if I stand completely as tall as I can stretch, and around 160 lbs. Almost every Man I meet is larger and taller than I am with a greater reach than I have. I walk around with a crocked Nose because some idiot in a stolen Car sucker punched me when I confronted him Stalking around my Parents house, by the time I got to the ER the Dr. refused to set it. So now I have a crocked nose because I'm a single father of two Girls and all my extra money had to go to them as opposed to spending a few thousand dollars to have a Surgeon re-break my Nose and re-set it, so I just live with it. I've also had my Skull fractured around the orbital of my right eye when another young 19 year old Idiot sucker punched me. Two years ago I had my Ribs broken by one of my Daughters Boyfriend when I tried to break up a Fight between them in my own house! So yes, I do have an IDEA what it's like to walk around being the smaller person in most situations in life. 

That said, my point that I was trying to make is that I don't believe most Females really understand that when two Men fight it is usually a very serious situation that can turn out very badly very quickly, typically when two Females physically fight no-one ends up in the Emergency Room. But when two Males fight this is quite likely to be the case. Thus the point I was attempting to make is that I believe many Females may simply not truly understand the gravity of the physical violence that two Men can inflict upon one another when things turn into a true Fight. 

This is certainly even more true when some Thug like McGlockton doesn't have the cohones to confront another Man, but takes them by surprise with a violent blind side attack. I've been on the receiving end of more than one Thug's blind side attack in my life even though I'm the smaller guy. So again I'm truly sorry you took offense to the point I was making, but I stand by my statements. This is also why I too like Drejka also carry a fire arm with me now. 

Sorry all that happened to you. What I was disputing is that women don't understand the fear of physical violence and the damage it can do....we get it. I have two sons, one was attacked from his blind side in high school. Even tho his glasses were knocked off and he couldn't see, he was able to use his training to deflect most of the subsequent blows and ended up with just a broken finger. The attacker was expelled and sent to juvenile detention. 

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lost_shaman
1 minute ago, skliss said:

Sorry all that happened to you. What I was disputing is that women don't understand the fear of physical violence and the damage it can do....we get it. I have two sons, one was attacked from his blind side in high school. Even tho his glasses were knocked off and he couldn't see, he was able to use his training to deflect most of the subsequent blows and ended up with just a broken finger. The attacker was expelled and sent to juvenile detention. 

Well I only hope you try to understand to point I was trying to make without being offended. 

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lost_shaman
44 minutes ago, skliss said:

Sorry all that happened to you.

Thank you. We should all strive to understand one another. That simple truth seems to get lost all to easily these days and it's very unfortunate. It's sad to say this but we actually have an entire class of people in the US that have been raised to be Thugs and Criminals. The sad situation exists and 'our' Laws are now being reformed to reflect this fact and are swinging back in the direction of defending the Law abiding Citizens. This is what Stand Your Ground Laws encompass. The Law abiding Citizens are being empowered by such Laws and a consequence of this is that we are going to see more situations like this one where a Thug may end up dead for being Thuggish. I'm sorry for having to spell it out this way but I feel this is the truth. We may see more situations like this until the Criminal class of out society realize that their days of preying on Law abiding Citizens are coming to an end and Law abiding Citizens are willing and able to finally, after decades of lawlessness, defend ourselves. That's the way I see it.  

Before everyone in the EU and Oz gets bent out of shape, let me tell you that in the last six years I've had my house broken into and my stuff stolen from my bedroom. I've had my property stolen from my yard four times. I had my car broken into in my driveway just two months ago while I was at home watching tv in broad daylight.

Edited by lost_shaman

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and then
5 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

There are no wheel stops.  It's apparent the colour of the wheel stops indicate the type of space for this property. There's no evidence that lines were ever there. All lines would fade at the same rate.

The stains are raised earlier. The stains next to Drejka's car a the lightest in the lot. There are slightly darker stains I'm the handicapped space are slightly darker.  That indicates the frequency of use; and, also indicates most users don't perceive that area as a legitimate space.

Drejka's hypocrisy raises the apprehension that he was seeking conflict.

He may have been.  As I've said, he was a JERK about the situation.  To me, the parking issue was never the real issue.  When people in this country get into heated arguments over anything, it is not common for one of them to lash out physically.  If you physically attack someone in response to their speech and especially if you injure them in any way - that's often a FELONY.  Felons here lose the right to vote or own firearms.  It can also cause problems in finding or keeping employment.  IOW, it's a BIG DEAL.

There was mention that he was cursing her from the get-go and he was so close to her she couldn't get out of the car.  I'm yet to see a link where a witness says Dejka was telling her to "move her effing car" and you can stop that video ANYWHERE, at any point and look at his feet and you will not see him close enough to reach out and touch her or to impede her getting out of the vehicle.  In fact, I recall a statement from the police that no witness - including Jacobs herself - saying she was threatened by him.  I'll look for that to post it.

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Regi

The issue I have is that from the time Drejka pulled his gun, McGlockton appears to have been increasingly distant from him when he fired.

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lost_shaman
5 minutes ago, Regi said:

The issue I have is that from the time Drejka pulled his gun, McGlockton appears to have been increasingly distant from him when he fired.

If you watch very closely to the video, even pause it or watch in slow motion, then you will see definitively that McGlockton only ends up standing where he was when he attacked Drejka. That's because after he attacked Drejka he advances on Drejka while he is down before Drejka pulls his weapon. 

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and then
Just now, Regi said:

The issue I have is that from the time Drejka pulled his gun, McGlockton appears to have been increasingly distant from him when he fired.

He had just been hit hard enough to rattle his brainpan and she had gotten out of the car and was moving around at the same time. If you watch the video and isolate on his actions only, you'll see a point after he raises the gun when his attention is distracted, he looks to his right - even the muzzle follows to the right - and then he swings back and fires.  Dejka isn't some 2A hero.  The fact remains that people have no RIGHT to slam you to the ground over an exchange of heated words.   Especially when the reason they are heated might be that Jacobs added fuel to the fire.  Neither she nor McG seems like they have much respect for the laws or social norms.  His rap sheet and her "I have my right to park anywhere I want" show ignorance AND arrogance.  I carry a weapon every day.  It is for defending my life, not to save my pride.  I live in a state where the 2A is held in highest esteem but we have attorneys that will cheerfully ruin you in civil courts and some DA's who'd love to put you in prison for 20 to life for defending yourself.  Shooting a person is literally the last thing you do before dying yourself.

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lost_shaman
4 minutes ago, and then said:

Shooting a person is literally the last thing you do before dying yourself.

Exactly right. Drejka is hiding out in his home right now afraid to even leave his house! Not knowing if any moment the police will knock down his front door and arrest him. And if you look at different youtube videos there are hundreds of people calling for Black Men to step up and Literally lynch the Man, Literally Lynch him as in the true sense of the word!!

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Regi
1 minute ago, lost_shaman said:

If you watch very closely to the video, even pause it or watch in slow motion, then you will see definitively that McGlockton only ends up standing where he was when he attacked Drejka. That's because after he attacked Drejka he advances on Drejka while he is down before Drejka pulls his weapon. 

I've slowed the video and it's evident to me that McGlockton was creating distance between himself and Drejka when Drejka shot him.

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Kittens Are Jerks
57 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

Thank you. We should all strive to understand one another. That simple truth seems to get lost all to easily these days and it's very unfortunate. It's sad to say this but we actually have an entire class of people in the US that have been raised to be Thugs and Criminals. The sad situation exists and 'our' Laws are now being reformed to reflect this fact and are swinging back in the direction of defending the Law abiding Citizens. This is what Stand Your Ground Laws encompass. The Law abiding Citizens are being empowered by such Laws and a consequence of this is that we are going to see more situations like this one where a Thug may end up dead for being Thuggish. I'm sorry for having to spell it out this way but I feel this is the truth. We may see more situations like this until the Criminal class of out society realize that their days of preying on Law abiding Citizens are coming to an end and Law abiding Citizens are willing and able to finally, after decades of lawlessness, defend ourselves. That's the way I see it.  

The stand your ground law does not empower individuals to use deadly force whenever they feel threatened. If a person shoves you, by all means shove them right back. You don't have the right to kill them. So before you head out with both guns blazing, you should know that you don't have a license to kill, that you don't have the right to act like an enforcer, and you certainly don't have the right to have the law interpreted on a subjective standard.

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lost_shaman
24 minutes ago, Regi said:

I've slowed the video and it's evident to me that McGlockton was creating distance between himself and Drejka when Drejka shot him.

Well watch it again. McGlockton ends up standing exactly where he was when he attacked Drejka. Because he advanced three steps on Drejka while he as down before Drejka pulled his gum and aimed and fired. 

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lost_shaman
2 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

The stand your ground law does not empower individuals to use deadly force whenever they feel threatened.

Yes. That's exactly what SYG laws empower you to do. Look up the law and read it very carefully until you understand what it says. 

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internetperson

As a heads up I read very few replies but I imagine I know the gist of them. 

As a Floridian I like the idea of stand your ground but in reality it doesn't always work for the good. Generally speaking, all ya gotta do is be somewhat reasonably afraid, or claim to be, then you're off scot free after you killed someone.

Problem here is there is no way to measure fear or ones own ability to feel it. They actually test (or used to test) war dogs for this to assure they respond appropriately under stress. If you could test someone and say they have a static fear level of X then that'd be great. They wouldn't be allowed concealed permits.

Another problem is cynical folks who go around life being annoyed at everything 24/7 who generally keep to themselves but when they get a gun now they're 10' tall. I don't think they mean to start confrontations but they now have the confidence to talk smack and when getting confronted they genuinely do become afraid, or are enraged after a yelling match and then they pull their gun. 

In my mind stand your ground is basically last resort. Get the whole idea of stopping a bank robbery or whatever out of your head. It should be for the 1/1,000,000 scenario where you're really in danger. 

Anyway, my summation of the case:

Morally both parties were in the wrong legally only 1 side is. According to our laws he did nothing wrong.

Excuse my language but I hope that dumb, entitled, self-righteous, b**** got her ticket. 

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aztek
Just now, and then said:

  Shooting a person is literally the last thing you do before dying yourself.

no, i shot him so i do not have to die, or get hurt.

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lost_shaman
10 minutes ago, internetperson said:

As a Floridian I like the idea of stand your ground but in reality it doesn't always work for the good. Generally speaking, all ya gotta do is be somewhat reasonably afraid, or claim to be, then you're off scot free after you killed someone.

Well the facts and evidence also have to back you up. You can't just claim that you are in fear if the evidence doesn't back you up. 

For example you can't just invite someone over to your house that you don't like and then shoot them and claim that they got violent with you and you were in fear of your life. SYG will not apply to any situation like that. You literally have to be attacked or threatened legitimately before SYG will allow you to defend yourself.

Edited by lost_shaman

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aztek
Just now, internetperson said:

 

As a Floridian I like the idea of stand your ground but in reality it doesn't always work for the good. Generally speaking, all ya gotta do is be somewhat reasonably afraid, or claim to be, then you're off scot free after you killed someone.

 

if it was the case we'd see SYG killings every day, yet, they are still pretty rare, not any more often than murders in "the hood", actually a lot less often.

about half the states have SYG laws, it did not increase murder rates.  and it's onl;y been an issue twice, GZ and this shooting, and the media outrage only happens when it is a white dude who killed a black guy.

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Regi
16 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

Well watch it again. McGlockton ends up standing exactly where he was when he attacked Drejka. Because he advanced three steps on Drejka while he as down before Drejka pulled his gum and aimed and fired. 

What I see is that when the one guy pulled a gun, the other guy back away and was still backing away when he was shot. 

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aztek
Just now, Regi said:

What I see is that when the one guy pulled a gun, the other guy back away and was still backing away when he was shot. 

you saw it from side angle, drejka may not have seen it  from his,  and there is also that fact that MG assaulted him a second before, his vision could have been  very blurry, and disoriented. no doubt his HR went up instantly after the hit,  affecting a lot of things.  

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lost_shaman
3 minutes ago, aztek said:

about half the states have SYG laws, it did not increase murder rates.  and it's onl;y been an issue twice, GZ and this shooting, and the media outrage only happens when it is a white dude who killed a black guy.

In the George Zimmerman case "SYG" was a big issue in the Media, but that's not what his defense claimed at trail because Zimmerman was knocked to the ground and could not retreat so the defense was a simple self defense case and SYG was not used in his defense. His lawyers only mentioned that law in passing in the closing argument but not during the trail proper. 

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aztek
Just now, lost_shaman said:

In the George Zimmerman case "SYG" was a big issue in the Media, but that's not what his defense claimed at trail because Zimmerman was knocked to the ground and could not retreat so the defense was a simple self defense case and SYG was not used in his defense. His lawyers only mentioned that law in passing in the closing argument but not during the trail proper. 

yes i know, which makes SYG even less of an issue in reality.

clearly someone is on the crusade to repel SYG laws. 

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lost_shaman
7 minutes ago, Regi said:

What I see is that when the one guy pulled a gun, the other guy back away and was still backing away when he was shot. 

He McG only took a couple of steps back after Drejka was already in the act of aiming a firing. Drejka only pulled the gun while McGlockton was advancing on him while he was down. McGlockton saw he was about to be shot and stepped back while he was in the act of being shot. His actions were too late to save him from the consequences of his actions before the gun was drawn. Drejka had every right to take careful aim as not to miss and or accidentally miss and shoot and innocent down range.

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