Majority of US Welcome Putin to White House

[+OverSword]

50 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

I think you are missing the whole story of Russia waging cyber-warfare against the US, hacking into our power grids, electoral systems, political parties, and who knows what else that we just have not been made aware of yet. And you must be missing the fact that Russia also is attacking us using social engineering including actual fake news and fake social media groups to influence US public opinion and divide our society apart.

And you also must not understand that Putin has been systematically carrying out murders across the world of his enemies/political opponents for the past 10+ years.

In general, the United States historically does NOT invite murderous dictators who are actively attacking our country to the white house, and I really strongly recommend that we do NOT start doing that now. THAT is clearly just NOT a good idea by any stretch of the imagination and I do not trust anyone who would claim that this is a good idea.

 

And you are probably missing the part where that is just expected and the other part where the USA outdoes every other nation on the face of the earth interfering in elections, overthrowing regimes and manipulating public opinion with fake news and social media. Seriously, get real.  What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[aztek]

Just now, OverSword said:

Kittens are jerks.

some are, big time, a buddy of mine found one on the highway, less than a month ago,  took him to a vet, then kept him,  now the kitten harasses his dog. no sense of gratitude whatsoever.

[Einsteinium]

6 minutes ago, OverSword said:

And you are probably missing the part where that is just expected and the other part where the USA outdoes every other nation on the face of the earth interfering in elections, overthrowing regimes and manipulating public opinion with fake news and social media. Seriously, get real.  What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

So you are morally equivocating the US and Russia?

I must have missed the last time a US president murdered political rivals abroad using nerve agents, or poisons. I also must have missed when the US just forcibly annexed a geographical neighbor in defiance of international law. I do, however, remember the US torturing suspected terrorists abroad. Yeah, I guess we do deserve Trump after all. Obama's reverend was right after all, America's chickens HAVE come home to roost. Remember when some of you guys were all upset over that lol? Seems so small and stupid compared to the new norm that is Trump.

[aztek]

how many suspicious death are there  around Clintons?

[+OverSword]

*snip*

Why bother.

Edited July 25, 2018 by OverSword

[RavenHawk]

1 hour ago, Einsteinium said:

I think you are missing the whole story of Russia waging cyber-warfare against the US, hacking into our power grids, electoral systems, political parties, and who knows what else that we just have not been made aware of yet. And you must be missing the fact that Russia also is attacking us using social engineering including actual fake news and fake social media groups to influence US public opinion and divide our society apart.

And we don’t do the same thing?  In this country, there is no law against posting fake news.  Just look at our MSM.  There is no crime to use social media groups to influence people.  That’s a simple matter of caveat emptor.  This didn’t affect the election anyway.  Obama tried to affect the Israeli elections and failed.  The one person most responsible for the public opinion of Hilary is Hilary herself.

 

And you also must not understand that Putin has been systematically carrying out murders across the world of his enemies/political opponents for the past 10+ years.

Aztek already stated it, but how many deaths are attributed around the Clintons?  Obama opened relations with Cuba and Venezuela.  How many deaths were ordered by those two regimes?

 

In general, the United States historically does NOT invite murderous dictators who are actively attacking our country to the white house, and I really strongly recommend that we do NOT start doing that now. THAT is clearly just NOT a good idea by any stretch of the imagination and I do not trust anyone who would claim that this is a good idea.

How ‘bout allies doing the same?  How many heads of state have been here so far?  Probably every single one has attacked us cyberly.  As we probably did to their PEDs that they brought with them.  I wouldn’t trust someone who has so deeply bought into the narrative.  What would be the reason not to invite Putin?  That he could claim some kind of big coop?  Big yawner.  Castro and Chavez already claimed that.  We have a real chance at working things out between the two nations.  Now is not the time for pettiness.  But it’s not even that.  It is simple jealousy by the collective “Left”.

[Uncle Sam]

I don't get what is so bad about making peace with Russia? Russia today isn't the same Russia back then, the KGB was wiped out and Soviets don't exist anymore.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Uncle Sam

[Merc14]

3 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

And here you have it, the latest breaking news:

White House pushes follow-up Trump-Putin meeting to next year
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-pushes-follow-up-trump-putin-meeting-to-next-year/2018/07/25/a8e1ed4c-9039-11e8-bcd5-9d911c784c38_story.html

The White House on Wednesday pushed to next year President Trump’s planned meeting with Russian President Vladi­mir Putin, a move that comes amid intensifying criticism of Trump’s conflicting statements on Russian interference in U.S. elections.

So this makes you happy or sad?

[AnchorSteam]

6 hours ago, OverSword said:

Maybe we should start a poll.

Right here, right now?

Sounds great, but you know what will happen; the Dems will lose and start calling all us unwashed masses-types the scum of the earth.

Just like they always do when they blow an election. 

Edited July 25, 2018 by AnchorSteam

[Kittens Are Jerks]

6 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

So this makes you happy or sad?

Neither. It is what it is.

[Merc14]

2 hours ago, Einsteinium said:

Appeasement doesn't work.

Accept with North Korea and Iran, right?  Anyways, who said anything about appeasement?  The only people I saw trying to appease this guy is YOUR party (see Uranium One) and  you are completely silent. 

 

Quote

Make no mistake about it, Putin is a dictator and he is a murderer who is willing to use radiation and chemical poisons to kill opponents of his abroad brazenly. Remember, Putin was once looked upon favorably by the US government. He is the one that chose to do things that soured that relationship. What you are suggesting here, is that we should bring Putin back to the table, despite him not changing a damn thing he is doing with respect to human rights, Crimea, or his political killings.

Yep and the dialog needs to continue so the stakes he is facing are in the open.  Trump has leveled heavy sanctions on Vlad and is strengthening the military against Vlad and the Chinese.  He also got NATO to chip in their agreed upon defense commitment. 

Quote

I for one, do not think that Russia should be welcomed back into normal world relations at this point because they have not done anything to resolve the issues that led to them being kicked out of the stage in the first place. The message that sends to other authoritarians is chilling.

Tell that to Merkel who is opening her one way pipeline, not me, I am for ruining her economy by flooding the oil market until he changes his evil ways but if he isn't read the riot act in person then it will take a lot longer.

Quote

I really don't think you have thought this one through Merc.

And you aren't thinking at all, you simply are against EVERYTHING Trump does no matter the outcome.  Not a great stance when you have been so wrong so far.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Merc14

[Farmer77]

1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

And we don’t do the same thing?  In this country, there is no law against posting fake news.  Just look at our MSM.  There is no crime to use social media groups to influence people.  That’s a simple matter of caveat emptor.  This didn’t affect the election anyway.  Obama tried to affect the Israeli elections and failed.  The one person most responsible for the public opinion of Hilary is Hilary herself.

take a second and read what you just wrote. Your partisanship has driven you to the point that you are justifying a foreign nation attempting to interfere in our elections, hacking our electrical grid, hacking our state election boards and stealing the identities of at least a half a million people. 

Go 'Merca 

 

[Einsteinium]

14 hours ago, Merc14 said:

Accept with North Korea and Iran, right?  Anyways, who said anything about appeasement?  The only people I saw trying to appease this guy is YOUR party (see Uranium One) and  you are completely silent. 

 

Yep and the dialog needs to continue so the stakes he is facing are in the open.  Trump has leveled heavy sanctions on Vlad and is strengthening the military against Vlad and the Chinese.  He also got NATO to chip in their agreed upon defense commitment. 

Tell that to Merkel who is opening her one way pipeline, not me, I am for ruining her economy by flooding the oil market until he changes his evil ways but if he isn't read the riot act in person then it will take a lot longer.

And you aren't thinking at all, you simply are against EVERYTHING Trump does no matter the outcome.  Not a great stance when you have been so wrong so far.

The Uranium One deal was investigated and there was nothing criminal or even ethically wrong with that deal. Hillary was one vote out of many who approved that deal. Your side is so blinded by Trumps false reality that you don't know what is going on. You don't see Trump for who he is, you don't recognize what he is. Make no mistake about it, I know what he is, and I see what he is trying to do.

I also know what role you play in this charade. You are one of the minority who actually believes this mans endless lies and bull****. To you, the media is the enemy of the people and you do not trust anything they say, but you trust 100% unquestioningly what Trump says. You believe what he tells you to believe. You are a fool who doesn't even see that this man is leading us down the path to tyrrany, and you are helping him do it.

[Einsteinium]

14 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

take a second and read what you just wrote. Your partisanship has driven you to the point that you are justifying a foreign nation attempting to interfere in our elections, hacking our electrical grid, hacking our state election boards and stealing the identities of at least a half a million people. 

Go 'Merca 

 

Isn't it just unbelievable what is going on? I never thought I would see the day when this would be happening in America.

Trumps leadership is a total disaster for the country, he is dividing us apart. He is sowing division and chaos around the world, and he is creating a false reality that his followers live in. A reality where the media is the enemy and nothing they say is true unless Trump agrees with it, which means that any scandal the media uncovers, any wrongdoing on Trumps part that they uncover his followers immediately just disregard it as fake news. You guys this is dangerous! Don't you see what he is doing here!?!? 

[Merc14]

13 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

Isn't it just unbelievable what is going on? I never thought I would see the day when this would be happening in America.

Trumps leadership is a total disaster for the country, he is dividing us apart. He is sowing division and chaos around the world, and he is creating a false reality that his followers live in. A reality where the media is the enemy and nothing they say is true unless Trump agrees with it, which means that any scandal the media uncovers, any wrongdoing on Trumps part that they uncover his followers immediately just disregard it as fake news. You guys this is dangerous! Don't you see what he is doing here!?!? 

I wish  you would stop with the insults such as "you followers".  Following someone, worshiping someone is what democrats do or they would've protested while Obama was ripping the country to shreds, economically, socially and overseas.   He was a HORRIBLE president with a  historically bad economy, terrible foreign policy failures and abysmal race relations.  I have asked over and over again that a democrat name one thing Obama did well and have never gotten an answer yet he is worshipped. 

Trump is simply doing what he was elected to do.  I may not approve of the man personally but I don't "follow him"  (ridiculous accusation), I merely ask he do what he was elected to do,  As far as dividing us apart that is absolute BS.  You on the left are the ones tearing the country apart simply because you can't accept that failure Hillary lost.  You, the left, being angry is not abnormal when your party is out of power, it is the norm.  

[Einsteinium]

4 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

I wish  you would stop with the insults such as "you followers".  Following someone, worshiping someone is what democrats do or they would've protested while Obama was ripping the country to shreds, economically, socially and overseas.   He was a HORRIBLE president with a  historically bad economy, terrible foreign policy failures and abysmal race relations.  I have asked over and over again that a democrat name one thing Obama did well and have never gotten an answer yet he is worshipped. 

Trump is simply doing what he was elected to do.  I may not approve of the man personally but I don't "follow him"  (ridiculous accusation), I merely ask he do what he was elected to do,  As far as dividing us apart that is absolute BS.  You on the left are the ones tearing the country apart simply because you can't accept that failure Hillary lost.  You, the left, being angry is not abnormal when your party is out of power, it is the norm.  

Oh come on man! Democrats are just people like you. Only your side seems to think people worship Obama. How stupid.

Historians so far disagree with you that Obama was a horrible president. He had a terrible economy handed to him from the Bush administration which you obviously must have forgotten about. Trumps economic boom is not going to last, and mark my words his deregulation is going to lead to another financial crisis, as it always does. But your side doesn't seem to really care much about future generations, you seem to always go for the short term gains at the expense of long term prosperity.

Obama is currently ranked at worst as the 18th best president in history, or at best as the 8th best president in history. Of  course you don't know what Obama did, you don't even know what Trump is actually doing right now. You don't have a clue what is going on obviously.

It is of course too early to tell where Trump will land, but currently he sits as the worst president in history, and I suspect he will remain as such given his propensity for lying about everything.

[Merc14]

42 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

Oh come on man! Democrats are just people like you. Only your side seems to think people worship Obama. How stupid.

They used to be when I was young but not any longer.  This isn't politics to the new gen Democrat, it is a religion.

Quote

Historians so far disagree with you that Obama was a horrible president. He had a terrible economy handed to him from the Bush administration which you obviously must have forgotten about. Trumps economic boom is not going to last, and mark my words his deregulation is going to lead to another financial crisis, as it always does. But your side doesn't seem to really care much about future generations, you seem to always go for the short term gains at the expense of long term prosperity.

He had 8 years to fix the economy with a full majority in both houses and he made it much worse.  No excuse.

Quote

Obama is currently ranked at worst as the 18th best president in history, or at best as the 8th best president in history. Of  course you don't know what Obama did, you don't even know what Trump is actually doing right now. You don't have a clue what is going on obviously.

I have numbers to go by and you do not.  Tell me one thing he did well?

He has picked SCOTUS justices that I heartily approve of, has cut punishing destructive regulations created by executive fiat because congress would never have voted for them, he ripped up that horrible and utterly ridiculous Iran agreement the mullahs didn't even bother to sign and he gutted ISIS.  I could list a dozen more things but I have made my point and my list is already longer than  any you could make re. Obama's accomplishments and it has only been a year and a half. 

Quote

It is of course too early to tell where Trump will land, but currently he sits as the worst president in history, and I suspect he will remain as such given his propensity for lying about everything.

LMAO.

[Einsteinium]

3 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

They used to be when I was young but not any longer.  This isn't politics to the new gen Democrat, it is a religion.

He had 8 years to fix the economy with a full majority in both houses and he made it much worse.  No excuse.

I have numbers to go by and you do not.  Tell me one thing he did well?

He has picked SCOTUS justices that I heartily approve of, has cut punishing destructive regulations created by executive fiat because congress would never have voted for them, he ripped up that horrible and utterly ridiculous Iran agreement the mullahs didn't even bother to sign and he gutted ISIS.  I could list a dozen more things but I have made my point and my list is already longer than  any you could make re. Obama's accomplishments and it has only been a year and a half. 

LMAO.

Oh Merc, you just have no clue what is going on. The actual fake news has consumed you.

He DID fix the economy, you must not realize how dire the financial crisis actually was and how bad it could have become. Thanks to Obama, we had a long recession instead of a full blown depression. 

What Trump is doing is he is creating a short term economic boom which will not last. It is going to come crashing down. Trump just needs the boom to last until 2020 so he can leverage the economy as the reason to reelect him. I just pity our children who will pay the price for it. With what Trump has done economically with his tax cuts and so on which were enacted in a decent economy to begin with is he is removing the ability of the US govt. to effectively react to the next financial crisis. When you stimulate an economy that does not need it, you create bubbles and that is what we are seeing now. And since the deficit is exploding due to the tax cuts we are entering into very dangerous territory where we are running massive deficits in an economic boom time. When the boom stops and actual economic stimulus is needed, we will not be able to provide it as we are already overstimulating the economy right now. But your side either is just stupid and doesn't realize this is how economics works, or you are willfully ignorant.

Obama got Osama Bin Laden. Under Obama gay marriage was legalized. Under Obama the US enacted an ambitious plan to beat China and retake our top position in supercomputing. Obama was not in your face like Trump is, he did not brag about his accomplishments like a middle schooler like Trump does. Obama actually enacted sanctions and punishment against Russia without congress forcing him to do so. The only reason Trump did it was because congress, in a rare act of bipartisanship, forced him to do it. But you would not know that as you don't know what is going on. Do you know what was agreed upon in Helsinki? Because if that was Obama meeting with Putin, we would have a transcript, the govt. would know exactly what was agreed to and discussed. Trump just wings it, and you think that is a good thing? Do you honestly think that just making up foreign policy as you go and relying on gut instinct is a good way to conduct foreign policy?

Of course you would think ripping up the Iran agreement is a good thing. Your side never bothered to actually understand that agreement in the first place, you were against it before the first word of it was written because Obama did it. Your side thinks it knows everything and has all the answers and therefore you don't need experts to explain things to you. Anyways, my issue with Trump is not a policy issue, my issue with him is that he cannot be trusted because he lies about literally everything. He is a chronic liar. He is a serial cheater. I don't know what you see in this guy, but I have never seen it. To me, he is the biggest snowflake in the country, can't even take minor criticism without lashing out in a really immature way. The guy has the thinnest skin of any president in history. Just a weak and petty old con man who conned his way into getting enough votes to become president.

[Merc14]

Just now, Einsteinium said:

Oh Merc, you just have no clue what is going on. The actual fake news has consumed you.

For a guy who hasn't gotten anything right you certainly have no problem telling the rest of us how stupid we are.    The rest of you post is more preaching and sanctimonious BS from a guy who is batting zero (see Trump collusion).  I'll bow out now as we both know how this ends.  Obama fixed the economy, good lord you have no shame at all. 

 

 

 

[Einsteinium]

Just now, Merc14 said:

For a guy who hasn't gotten anything right you certainly have no problem telling the rest of us how stupid we are.    The rest of you post is more preaching and sanctimonious BS from a guy who is batting zero (see Trump collusion).  I'll bow out now as we both know how this ends.  Obama fixed the economy, good lord you have no shame at all. 

 

 

 

You go ahead and bow out, your propaganda is better left unsaid anyways. I wish your POTUS would bow out as well and let a decent person take his place.

The Russia collusion investigation is sure turning out a lot of indictments and guilty pleas for a 'witch hunt'. It will be very interesting to see who Mueller takes down next. Next set of indictments are likely going to be US citizens who did conspire with the Russians and the Trump campaign. We know that Trump tried to collude with Russia, that much is clear, we don't yet know for sure if he succeeded in his conspiracy, but I suspect that Mueller knows. But given all the lies Trump spews out regarding collusion and Russia, the only conclusion that really makes sense is that he did in fact conspire with the Russians. That is becoming the only answer that really makes sense and explains everything. But again, you probably are not even aware of the latest Mueller investigation stuff seeing as how you don't know what is going on.

[RavenHawk]

11 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

The Russia collusion investigation is sure turning out a lot of indictments and guilty pleas for a 'witch hunt'. It will be very interesting to see who Mueller takes down next. Next set of indictments are likely going to be US citizens who did conspire with the Russians and the Trump campaign. We know that Trump tried to collude with Russia, that much is clear, we don't yet know for sure if he succeeded in his conspiracy, but I suspect that Mueller knows. But given all the lies Trump spews out regarding collusion and Russia, the only conclusion that really makes sense is that he did in fact conspire with the Russians. That is becoming the only answer that really makes sense and explains everything. But again, you probably are not even aware of the latest Mueller investigation stuff seeing as how you don't know what is going on.

And how many of those Americans that have been indicted by Mueller were for collusion?  Meanwhile the case for the real collusion is ravaging the top ranks of the Deep State.

[Einsteinium]

9 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

And how many of those Americans that have been indicted by Mueller were for collusion?  Meanwhile the case for the real collusion is ravaging the top ranks of the Deep State.

 

None yet, but there are likely indictments coming if you read the tea leaves. Just reading the last indictment of the 12 russian agents made it clear that US people were involved and I can only assume that those people are the next shoe to drop.

 

Oh come on what a load of crap. I assume you are talking about the BS propaganda story about the democrats colluding with the russians or some bs conspiracy theory like that? Just clearly a bunch of garbage, a desperate and well known distraction tactic. When you are accused of something, you accuse the accuser of the same thing and just throw as much mud as you can and see if any of it sticks. It actually worked on me for a short period of time where I found myself questioning the narrative of the media. Then I read a lot of the base material the media was using to figure out the narrative and I came to much of the same conclusions the media is coming to. I realized what Trump is trying to do then definitively and it is so incredibly disappointing to see that it is working on so many of you.

Just a distraction, thankfully Mueller does not get distracted.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Einsteinium

[spud the mackem]

The problem is that Putin trusts no one and is suspicious of any move the West makes towards friendship, which does not lead to any lasting agreements, plus the fact that Putin will still be an on stage World Leader long after Trump has gone.

 

[Einsteinium]

16 minutes ago, spud the mackem said:

The problem is that Putin trusts no one and is suspicious of any move the West makes towards friendship, which does not lead to any lasting agreements, plus the fact that Putin will still be an on stage World Leader long after Trump has gone.

 

The problem is also that Putin murders people abroad, and is attacking the west with cyberattacks including hacking. And he is also using the internet to unload propaganda on the west to influence our lesser informed brothers and sisters.

Putin is causing a lot of problems.

[RavenHawk]

20 hours ago, Einsteinium said:

I must have missed when FDR invited Hitler to the white house and ended WW2 through appeasement and keeping Hitlers dignity intact. Or when FDR visited Hitler and never called him out for his meddling in the sovereignty of Poland and just accepted Hitlers statement that he was not actually meddling in other nations affairs. Yeah, if FDR had done that, surely WW2 could have just been avoided altogether.

First of all Trump is not FDR and Putin is not Hitler.  And we are not in a shooting war with Russia.  You need to step back the imagery.  You are believing your own propaganda.  No, FDR may never have called out Hitler for meddling in Poland’s sovereignty but he did turn the other way when Poland was betrayed to the Soviet Union.

 

Yup, so Trump treating Putin this way is just brilliant statecraft, not appeasement.

Precisely.

 

The fact that the Russians have a full transcript of the meeting and the US is left in the dark, that is just an unimportant detail.

If the Russians have a full transcript, then where is it?  What happened in the meeting?

 

It doesn't really matter what two world leaders say or agree to in secret. After all, the Hitler/Stalin deal that shocked the world which was done in secret was just not that big of a deal and it didn't matter that they kept that pact secret initially.  But if Trump invites Putin to the Whitehouse, it could prevent WWIII from occurring.

You seriously think that Trump and Putin are doing the same thing?  Do they have a secret plan to divvy up Europe?  If that’s the case, then what difference does it make where they meet?  But if this is not the case, which the odds are, then yes, this could be the simple act that prevents war.  And Trump will be able to unify Europe and Russia to deal with China.

 

Yeah, Putin is just a great guy, Trump meeting with Putin in secret is not a big deal at all, don't worry about it, go watch youtube or play video games and don't worry about it. Nothing to see here. Don't believe what you hear and what you see, only Trump knows the truth.

I don’t think Putin is a great guy, but that doesn’t matter.  Leaders meet in private all the time.  That doesn’t mean there is anything nefarious about such meetings.  For such a nefarious meeting to take place would mean that the trap is ready to be sprung and that requires for pieces to be in place.  I am not aware of mass alerts or movements.  Are you?

 

....now where have I heard all this rhetoric before..oh yeah..... Yeah, you guys who still support this guy- you are something special, aren't you?

What rhetoric?  It’s your fantasy world.  We are not as special as you think you are.  We support the guy because we see who he is.  We look beyond the fluff the MSM tries to distract with.