Farmer77 Posted July 29, 2018 #151 Share Posted July 29, 2018 On 7/26/2018 at 2:09 PM, Big Jim said: It amazes me how people can complain about the private meeting between Trump and Putin and then go on to claim they know what happened between the two men. I see it only as a get acquainted meeting where nothing was intended to be accomplished except two powerful leaders getting to know one another. They are in unique positions, both in respect to their own countries and the rest of the world. Everyone else is subordinate, so who could possibly supervise? They don't work out the details, there are secretaries and underlings for that. But these two men have to be able to trust and understand each other before anything else can happen. My belief is that it's better to have friends than enemies, but even if we must remain adversaries it is important to know the other person you're dealing with. You can tell more about a person by meeting and talking for a couple hours than you can from a month's worth of briefs and reports from people who haven't met either one. Sure that is sound logic. Or it would be sound logic if Trump didnt have such deep and intricate financial ties to the Russians on top of the election scandal and his questionable behavior regarding it. For the good of the nation Trump should have recognized the appearance and not met with Putin alone. The fact that he did speaks volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jim Posted July 29, 2018 #152 Share Posted July 29, 2018 33 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Sure that is sound logic. Or it would be sound logic if Trump didnt have such deep and intricate financial ties to the Russians on top of the election scandal and his questionable behavior regarding it. For the good of the nation Trump should have recognized the appearance and not met with Putin alone. The fact that he did speaks volumes. Even if your assessment is correct, it changes nothing about the dynamics of personal relationships. This was an introductory meeting. Nothing more. Are better relationships begun with a chaperone or without? When it's time to get down to brass tacks we can fill the room with chaperones of all sorts, secretaries, bureaucrats, reporters, and what-have-you. But without a basic understanding between Trump and Putin nothing will ever happen and we will maintain the status quo for another 50 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted July 29, 2018 #153 Share Posted July 29, 2018 46 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Sure that is sound logic. Or it would be sound logic if Trump didnt have such deep and intricate financial ties to the Russians on top of the election scandal and his questionable behavior regarding it. For the good of the nation Trump should have recognized the appearance and not met with Putin alone. The fact that he did speaks volumes. Yes it does. It says he doesn't follow political protocol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 29, 2018 #154 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Just now, Big Jim said: Even if your assessment is correct, it changes nothing about the dynamics of personal relationships. This was an introductory meeting. Nothing more. Hang on. If my assessment is correct then it is extremely dangerous for our nation to assume that the man who is potentially compromised by a foreign power is telling the truth about what happened in that meeting. 1 minute ago, Big Jim said: Are better relationships begun with a chaperone or without? When it's time to get down to brass tacks we can fill the room with chaperones of all sorts, secretaries, bureaucrats, reporters, and what-have-you. B Again though you're taking the word of the individual who may be compromised that no "brass tacks" were in play at that meeting. This at best was a failing of leadership by Trump. He should have recognized the questionable nature of what he was doing and the appearance it would cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 29, 2018 #155 Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, RoofGardener said: Yes it does. It says he doesn't follow political protocol Which considering the fractured state of our nation again speaks volumes to his disregard for the overall wellbeing of America...….or of course it just says hes in Putin's pocket. Edited July 29, 2018 by Farmer77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted July 29, 2018 #156 Share Posted July 29, 2018 1 minute ago, Farmer77 said: Which considering the fractured state of our nation again speaks volumes to his disregard for the overall wellbeing of America...….or of course it just says hes in Putin's pocket. That is only true if you assume that professional politicians are good for the wellbeing of America. The voters didn't think so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 29, 2018 #157 Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: That is only true if you assume that professional politicians are good for the wellbeing of America. The voters didn't think so Again with people defending Trump without context Yes in a vacuum your statement would make sense. However considering how absolutely divided America is doing something which would clearly cause more division shows a complete disregard for the overall wellbeing of America. Edited July 29, 2018 by Farmer77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted July 29, 2018 #158 Share Posted July 29, 2018 13 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Again with people defending Trump without context Yes in a vacuum your statement would make sense. However considering how absolutely divided America is doing something which would clearly cause more division shows a complete disregard for the overall wellbeing of America. I challenge your underlying assumption 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 29, 2018 #159 Share Posted July 29, 2018 1 minute ago, RoofGardener said: I challenge your underlying assumption Haha im gonna borrow from my right wing brethren . You have no idea whats really going on over here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted July 29, 2018 #160 Share Posted July 29, 2018 7 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Haha im gonna borrow from my right wing brethren . You have no idea whats really going on over here You feel that you are part of the right-wing brotherhood ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 29, 2018 #161 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Just now, RoofGardener said: You feel that you are part of the right-wing brotherhood ? We're all one big family Amigo......some of us are just from the shallower end of the gene pool than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted July 29, 2018 #162 Share Posted July 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: We're all one big family Amigo......some of us are just from the shallower end of the gene pool than others. .. and some urinate in the pool 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jim Posted July 29, 2018 #163 Share Posted July 29, 2018 The only fact about the meeting is that we have no information about it. All the rest is perception. Reading these posts shows that nothing has changed our original perceptions of the man. Those that support Trump see nothing wrong and those that have always disliked him see nothing but evil coming from it. Many have cited the ongoing "Russian Investigation" as reason for Trump needing to be supervised. I tend to grant him the presumption of innocence that we are all entitled to. The title of this thread suggests that the majority of Americans share the perception that we are moving in a positive direction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jim Posted July 29, 2018 #164 Share Posted July 29, 2018 58 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Hang on. If my assessment is correct then it is extremely dangerous for our nation to assume that the man who is potentially compromised by a foreign power is telling the truth about what happened in that meeting. Again though you're taking the word of the individual who may be compromised that no "brass tacks" were in play at that meeting. This at best was a failing of leadership by Trump. He should have recognized the questionable nature of what he was doing and the appearance it would cause. So, you're saying that he should have the same perception about himself that you and his other detractors have? The only failure of leadership would be if he doubted himself as much as you do. To your credit you preface all of your accusations and assumptions with words like "potentially", "may be", "probably" and the like. That comes close to giving him the benefit of the doubt but not quite granting him the presumption of innocence that the Constitution guarantees all of us. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted July 29, 2018 #165 Share Posted July 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Farmer77 said: For the good of the nation Trump should have recognized the appearance and not met with Putin alone. The fact that he did speaks volumes. oh please..... you think the President should be chaperoned when meeting with another world leader... like he was naughty schoolboy - he's your PRESIDENT for heavens sake... representing the United States.. you are all Russia this Russia that, but you would see your President be humiliated in front of Putin ... '''''''oh I'm sorry Vladimir... I can't meet with you alone because my enemies and the Evil Fake Media will say nasty things and use it against me''''''' ... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 29, 2018 #166 Share Posted July 29, 2018 1 minute ago, Big Jim said: So, you're saying that he should have the same perception about himself that you and his other detractors have? No im saying that he is President of all Americans not just his faithful. As such he should be concerned about how his actions will be seen by everyone not just his faithful. If he is innocent all he is doing by ignoring the reality of the situation he is in is making it worse for himself and his supporters by creating negative headlines and stealing what should be positive airtime for him. I think that statement really covers the entire Russia fiasco quite well. At every turn he has made it appear worse for himself. 1 minute ago, Big Jim said: That comes close to giving him the benefit of the doubt but not quite granting him the presumption of innocence that the Constitution guarantees all of us. IDK man I'm of two minds on that. I actually started this thing wholly giving him the benefit of the doubt and in fact not believing that it was possible that he/they conspired with the Russians. Trump and company's actions combined with the evidence uncovered thus far has me now rather wholly convinced that Trump is a Russian asset of some sort. Theres simply too much there there. My other thought on it is when it comes to national security how far should we go with the benefit of the doubt thing? I honestly dont know the answer to that but I feel like the folks who should be answering that question for us (congress) are too interested in covering their own asses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted July 29, 2018 #167 Share Posted July 29, 2018 8 minutes ago, Big Jim said: So, you're saying that he should have the same perception about himself that you and his other detractors have? The only failure of leadership would be if he doubted himself as much as you do. exactly.... they try to crush him on a daily basis but he is having none of it - he won't be mind controlled and continues with his own leadership style... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 29, 2018 #168 Share Posted July 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, bee said: oh please..... you think the President should be chaperoned when meeting with another world leader... like he was naughty schoolboy - he's your PRESIDENT for heavens sake.. Yep I sure as hell do. The man has intricate financial ties to Russian oligarchs and refuses to let us see his tax returns. That in and of itself is enough but as we all know there is much more concerning info out there than just that. 6 minutes ago, bee said: '''''''oh I'm sorry Vladimir... I can't meet with you alone because my enemies and the Evil Fake Media will say nasty things and use it against me''''''' ... Or he could be show some fortitude and say something more along the lines of: "considering the havoc you have wreaked by interfering in our elections on my behalf I think its best if we bring along some aides and transcribers" See its pretty simple. Hey that would have actually resembled manning up too rather than looking like a Kremlin employee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted July 29, 2018 #169 Share Posted July 29, 2018 1 minute ago, Farmer77 said: If he is innocent all he is doing by ignoring the reality of the situation he is in is making it worse for himself and his supporters by creating negative headlines and stealing what should be positive airtime for him. I think that statement really covers the entire Russia fiasco quite well. At every turn he has made it appear worse for himself. By now... his 'supporters' and voters know full well that NOTHING he does will stop negative headlines... Trump obviously knows that too.... Only total capitulation to the Political Globalist Agenda will garner him a whiff of positive airtime... but even then I would fully expect it to be twisted into negative spin and declared evidence of weakness and lack of character... and the failure to fulfill his promises... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 29, 2018 #170 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Just now, bee said: By now... his 'supporters' and voters know full well that NOTHING he does will stop negative headlines... Trump obviously knows that too.... Dont fool yourself into thinking he didnt make those headlines himself. The man's behavior and choices are creating them. Hell if he could keep from doing something stupid for a day or two the good things he has done would actually get some airtime. 2 minutes ago, bee said: Only total capitulation to the Political Globalist Agenda will garner him a whiff of positive airtime... but even then I would fully expect it to be twisted into negative spin and declared evidence of weakness and lack of character... and the failure to fulfill his promises... OMG that right wing victim mentality is so precious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted July 29, 2018 #171 Share Posted July 29, 2018 18 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Or he could be show some fortitude and say something more along the lines of: "considering the havoc you have wreaked by interfering in our elections on my behalf I think its best if we bring along some aides and transcribers" See its pretty simple. Hey that would have actually resembled manning up too rather than looking like a Kremlin employee. you try and 'emasculate' your President (and therefore America) on a daily basis and then have the nerve to talk about him 'manning up' - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted July 29, 2018 #172 Share Posted July 29, 2018 7 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Dont fool yourself into thinking he didnt make those headlines himself. The man's behavior and choices are creating them. Hell if he could keep from doing something stupid for a day or two the good things he has done would actually get some airtime. yeah and pigs might fly the games up.... all but hard core detractors have lost confidence in the MSM ... and no matter how much they (MSM) double down on the negative spin and lies... they are not believed by the majority of General Public... IMO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 29, 2018 #173 Share Posted July 29, 2018 9 minutes ago, bee said: you try and 'emasculate' your President (and therefore America) on a daily basis and then have the nerve to talk about him 'manning up' - Trump emasculates himself on a daily basis in a variety of ways. I simply point them out. As for manning up , again hell yes im talking about him manning up. Mr. tell it like it is, Mr. wake up at 5am to insult 15 different people on twitter , Mr. talk tough with everyone else in the world looked like Putin's pool boy in Helsinki. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 29, 2018 #174 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I haven't looked in a while but the last polling I saw showed Americans trusting the MSM more than Trump I know I know polls dont matter, they're all wrong....unless of course like the OP they support Trump 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jim Posted July 29, 2018 #175 Share Posted July 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Farmer77 said: No im saying that he is President of all Americans not just his faithful. As such he should be concerned about how his actions will be seen by everyone not just his faithful. If he is innocent all he is doing by ignoring the reality of the situation he is in is making it worse for himself and his supporters by creating negative headlines and stealing what should be positive airtime for him. I think that statement really covers the entire Russia fiasco quite well. At every turn he has made it appear worse for himself. IDK man I'm of two minds on that. I actually started this thing wholly giving him the benefit of the doubt and in fact not believing that it was possible that he/they conspired with the Russians. Trump and company's actions combined with the evidence uncovered thus far has me now rather wholly convinced that Trump is a Russian asset of some sort. Theres simply too much there there. My other thought on it is when it comes to national security how far should we go with the benefit of the doubt thing? I honestly dont know the answer to that but I feel like the folks who should be answering that question for us (congress) are too interested in covering their own asses. Honestly, it sounds like you're saying "I'd give him the benefit of the doubt if only he wasn't so darn guilty". That's really not the same thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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