Majority of US Welcome Putin to White House

[Einsteinium]

7 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Don’t you know, that’s the beauty of the plan.  Before you know it, Trump will be selling 50% of our uranium stock to Putin and shipping $200 billion to Tehran.

I don't think Trump has a plan. I honestly think he just wings it.

[RavenHawk]

2 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

I don't think Trump has a plan. I honestly think he just wings it.

Not Trump’s plan – Putin’s.  You can’t even keep your own conspiracy straight.

[GlitterRose]

5 hours ago, skliss said:

Yes, I agree that he sometimes does that. Often it's in response to something already addressed to him. In this instance, though, I just think it would be funny to see how the big talkers would act if confronted with Putin face to face. I bet it would be an entirely different story. Allow me to be amused by the thought. lol

The average person does not have the entire US military at their personal beck and call, so yeah...they probably would be afraid of someone with Putin's power who could reach across oceans and strike somebody down. 

Our POTUS, however...

does not have to cower.

Unless, of course, there is some other reason that he needs to. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by ChaosRose

[Einsteinium]

3 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Not Trump’s plan – Putin’s.  You can’t even keep your own conspiracy straight.

 

I don't believe in vast conspiracies, the evidence just does not add up for something like that.

What I think happened is this:

1. Putin keeps an eye on rich Americans with presidential ambitions visiting his country

2. Trump, as a rich American with presidential ambitions who has visited Russia, comes into financial trouble

3. Oligarchs bail Trump out, as no American banks would lend to him, with strings attached (in violation of sanctions and money laundering laws)

4. Trump is just happy to keep his business afloat

5. Obama and comedians just eviscerate Trump at the White House Correspondents Dinner, Trump makes up his mind to run for president and win in retaliation to 'show' Obama who's boss

6. Trump announces he will run

7. Putin learns Trump is running

8. Putin begins a campaign to help Trump win the GOP

9. Manafort learns that Putin would like Trump to win, jumps at the opportunity to help to try and clear debts he has with Russian Oligarchs

10. Manafort buys a property in Trump tower, and offers to lead Trumps campaign for free, Trump bites and hires him as his campaign chief

11. Manafort lobbies successfully to change the RNC platform rhetoric to be more pro-Russia, inexplicably denies he had a hand in this.

12. Trump wins nomination

13. Trump, knowing that the Russian govt. is trying to help his campaign really stupidly and obviously and amateurishly during a speech point black asks Russia to find the 30,000 Hillary Clinton emails and tells them they will be rewarded if they succeed. According to the latest Indictment filed by Mueller, the Russian GRU started attempting to hack into the DNC later this very same day

14. Trumps campaign over time and on numerous occassions colludes with the Russian government on the timing of release of hacked DNC material to influence the 2016 election

15. Trump wins the presidential election

16. Trump fires Comey due to the Russia investigation in his own words

17. Lifelong republican appointed deputy attorney general appoints a lifelong Republican Vietnam war hero special counsel to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 election, possible collusion with the Trump campaign (started by loose lipped Papadoupolous and further evidenced by the Steele dossier), and possible obstruction of justice committed by Trump to try and obstruct the investigation into Russian interference.

18. Trump, inexplicably starts calling Mueller, a lifelong republican, investigation a 'witch hunt led by angry democrats' and begins a campaign of propaganda, bullying, lying, and war against the MSM to try and discredit the Mueller investigation.

19. Millions of Republicans, disillusioned with the 2016 campaign and being fed lies for over a decade by the right wing media about Obama and Hillary, buys into the Trump narrative that the MSM is the 'enemy of the people' and that Trump is the 'only one who can fix it' and will 'drain the swamp' and so on, and just entrench themselves into this narrative and inexplicably ignore all evidence that runs counter to their narrative as 'fake news'.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Einsteinium

[RavenHawk]

6 hours ago, Einsteinium said:

I don't think this is true. For one thing, Putin has ALREADY been caught meddling in the midterm elections.

Got links?

 

We already know that the GRU has tried to hack into 3 different democratic senators email accounts, and that is just what we know about.

Hacking into accounts isn’t necessarily meddling.  It’s SOP.

 

Also, DNC ballot box stuffing antics? What are you talking about with that? The only place I have heard of that BS is from far right propaganda and it has been shown to be fake news on numerous occasions.

I recall a thread here a while back showing just that.  I don’t recall the thread and I saw nothing about it being fake news.  The DNC meddled in the elections to screw Bernie.  That has been proven, Hell, everyone knew it was rigged.  Bernie never had a chance as the DNC propped her up.

 

Also, Putin WANTED Trump to be president,

He said that after the fact.  Why would he want Trump to be President when he was getting everything he wanted through Hilary?  You don’t kill the Golden Goose.

 

I don't think Putin was 'fully expecting Trump to read him the riot act", in fact I think Putin already knew that Trump was NOT going to come down hard on him. Putin, if anything, is emboldened by this summit to interfere in the midterms.

Why not (read him the riot act), Trump had torn into everyone else, and rightfully so.  That’s what Trump does when someone deserves it.  He tore into allies because they weren’t holding up their end.  He was justified.  There is every reason for Putin to think Trump was going to tear into him.  Call him Rocket Man II (or something).  I think Trump is just giving him the benefit of the doubt.  I do think that Trump wants to work with Putin but for something else than most people think.  I.e. China.

 

Obama weaponized the govt against the people eh? Wow where the hell do you get your news from? And you think the MSM is 'fake news' what a joke.

If you spent less time listening to the MSM, you might see what’s happening around you.  You’re not aware of the NSA spying on private citizens (gathering raw data)?  What do you think the purpose of EO12333 was?  You have the EPA, FBI, and CIA singling out individuals and lying about sources.  But the worse is probably the IRS.  Obamacare forced an overabundance of new regulations that basically turned the IRS into the Stasi as the enforcing arm (a de facto secret police).  Our laws were rewritten to incorporate the IRS into different aspects.  It gave the IRS new powers.

 

If this is true, then this is surprising to me. I watched the Summit first before listening to any of the MSM commentary and I came to basically the same conclusions that they did. I don't know why you have such rose colored glasses on when it comes to Trump.

And I too watched the press conference prior to any commentary.  And I saw something completely different than the get-Trump-at-all-costs MSM.  I saw a minor gaff but the Hate Trump Media was all over it as proof that Trump was in collusion with Putin.  It’s the media that has the rose-colored glass on.  When is it going to dawn on people that the MSM is unhinged?

 

The man is a proven liar, cheater, and manipulator. Hardly the kind of man who has historically  made for a good leader generally, let alone a good president.

Holding everyone up to a very high bar there.  What President hasn’t done those things?  Kennedy had an affair with Marilyn.  Clinton had an affair with Monica.  And this was in the Whitehouse.  Trump has been known to exaggerate but it doesn’t come close to “Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency.”, “We revealed to the American people exactly what we understood at the time.”, “Not even a smidgen of corruption.”, “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.”, …  And the hits just kept on coming.   These jewels out do anything Trump has done.  Trump is a good motivator and that makes for a good President.  Obama was an instigator

 

I don't want to get into this, but as one who is educated in science and works in a supporting field, I have to point out that you are wrong. Evolution is literally just as solid of a theory as the theory of electromagnetism which has led to light bulbs, computers, and basically the entire modern world. There are details we have yet to work out, but the evidence for the base theory is overwhelming. The fact that you think Evolution is no more provable than creationism is very telling.

If you’re going to claim that I’m wrong, then you’re going to have to get into it.  You brought it up and I slapped it right back into your face.  Evolution is just a theory (i.e. not proven fact) and because we have a lot to work out still does not make it all that solid.  Yes, we have had a lot of advancements through the understanding of electromagnetism, but what break throughs have we had from the theory of evolution?  Work that has been done in natural selection and mutation has led to a wide range of practical applications in gene mapping and therapy.  But evolution is no more provable than Creationism.  It’s a theory that the scientific model doesn’t even work on.  It is telling because I keep an open mind and you don’t.  Anyone who seriously believes in science would have that doubt as opposed to clinging to a political agenda.  I’m pro-evolution but even I know that research and discovery needs to continue.  There is no contradiction between the two theories.  They are complimentary.

 

I am against socialism and the fact that you think anyone who opposes Trump must be a socialist is very telling that the right wing propaganda must be working its course.

It’s quite simple.  If you are anti-Trump, you are on the side of the Progressives.  If you claim not to be a socialist and still anti-Trump, then you still stand to be counted with the Socialists.  There is no fence sitting.  You don’t have to be in love with Trump and neither does Trump need to be perfect, he is not.  But he does firmly stand for the Constitution and that’s all I care about.  That’s all that matters.

 

Mueller's witch hunt has come up with  nothing!?!?! WTF!? He has numerous indictments, numerous guilty pleas! He has uncovered a ton of iillegal activity by members of Trumps inner circle related to Russia and collusion and you call that nothing? Really? And Mueller has only been at this for what, a little over a year now?

And with all of these indictments, none of them have anything to do with collusion with Russia.  Manafort is charged with questionable finances in Ukraine from years ago and others like Flynn lied to the FBI (and it was pointed out that the interviewing agents didn’t think he was lying).  This points to a witch hunt.  If you grabbed any random group of businessmen and politicians and squeezed hard enough, you’d get a whole slew of crimes.

 

You want to know what a real witch hunt nothing bull**** investigation looks like? Look no further than the Benghazi investigation led by Trey Gowdy. How many years did that drag on for? How many indictments? ZERO. How many guilty pleas? ZERO, when did he choose to end that investigation? Conveniently right after the election. Want to talk about a witch hunt look no further than this piece of trash investigation.

I wonder why?  The Deep State was protecting Hilary because it was the Obama apparatus.  Protect her and you protect yourself.  Comey even laid out the case against Hilary (if I did a fraction of what she has done, I’d be put away for a very long time) and basically established her protected.  Fast and Furious & Benghazi will recycle as the case against Comey, Strzok, et al ramp up.  Do you really understand what the Obama Administration did to those people in Benghazi?  And then the lies to cover it up?  Very few things get me so incensed as this.  People died and the official response was “What difference does it make?”

 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Remember kids - “Russian Nationals” always work for Putin. All Russians, all work personally upon the personal order of Putin. You never have cabals within the Russian government running their own schemes, you never have Russian oligarchs running their own schemes, they’re all Putin, all the time.

[RavenHawk]

2 hours ago, Einsteinium said:

I don't believe in vast conspiracies, the evidence just does not add up for something like that.

What I think happened is this:

And Occam is rolling over in his grave!  Can you say convoluted?  And you claim to be a scientist or in the discipline?  You should go into fiction.

[RavenHawk]

4 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Remember kids - “Russian Nationals” always work for Putin. All Russians, all work personally upon the personal order of Putin. You never have cabals within the Russian government running their own schemes, you never have Russian oligarchs running their own schemes, they’re all Putin, all the time.

That’s why Assange said that the leaks he had was from a non-government player.  Which rules out Russia.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

32 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

That’s why Assange said that the leaks he had was from a non-government player.  Which rules out Russia.

 

And Jules is no friend of Russia after they sold him up the river. If he had evidence of Russian involvement in the Taco’s election he’d have spread it already.

[Paranormal Panther]

7 hours ago, Opus Magnus said:

It would only make sense that other countries would try to influence elections. It wouldn't be surpising if next thing they are going to be trying to rip what they got elected down to cause more confusion.

Collusion was unprecedented at the start of the hunter-gatherer period. It was a given during the Cold War era, and coups in Iran and Ukraine show how absurd it is for Americans to lose their stuff over childish memes planted by a dozen Russians. The only thing new about this meddling is the hype. The MSM were mute when the Obama administration interfered in Israeli elections, for just one example of the different reactions.

[Paranormal Panther]

50 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

And Occam is rolling over in his grave!  Can you say convoluted?  And you claim to be a scientist or in the discipline?  You should go into fiction.

 

I claim to be an astronaut. Prove me wrong.

[Farmer77]

10 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Got links?

Russians Fail To Hack Computers Of Democratic Sen. McCaskill

Quote

U.S. intelligence officials said the Russians were going to try to hack the midterm elections. Now, it appears to have happened. The target is one of this fall's most vulnerable Democrats, Missouri Senator Claire McCaskill. NPR congressional reporter Kelsey Snell is with us in the studio now. Hey, Kelsey.

Pretty sure Mueller will be looking at the timing of Trump's verbal attacks on McCaskill and the Russian attempted hack. 

 

[Farmer77]

 

10 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Remember kids - “Russian Nationals” always work for Putin. All Russians, all work personally upon the personal order of Putin. You never have cabals within the Russian government running their own schemes, you never have Russian oligarchs running their own schemes, they’re all Putin, all the time.

Um well that is kinda how dictatorships work. 

 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

 

Um well that is kinda how dictatorships work. 

 

The White Rose society objects to you calling them Nazis.

[Farmer77]

9 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

The MSM were mute when the Obama administration interfered in Israeli elections, for just one example of the different reactions.

Its truly that hard for you to grasp why the response would be different huh? 

(read in patient elementary school teachers voice) 

When Obama interfered in Israel's election that was America doing something to someone else. 

When Russia interfered in America's elections that was someone doing something to Americans. 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Farmer77

[bee]

18 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Well, since the assets he was liquidating are in Russia, the money he gets must be Russian.  I doubt it is Tahitian.  From what other places was he liquidating assets from?  He couldn’t have been the only one at that time.  What’s the full story?

 

That's it isn't it...... the art of toxic negative spin is always taking something out of context to make a (fake) point....
twisting and isolating a remark or something to try and bamboozle the reader / listener...

Perception Management 

The MSM and foot soldiers are desperately doubling down on the perception management because their power is slipping away
as more and more people think for themselves and get their news from other sources...

[Farmer77]

1 minute ago, bee said:

 

That's it isn't it...... the art of toxic negative spin is always taking something out of context to make a (fake) point....
twisting and isolating a remark or something to try and bamboozle the reader / listener...

Perception Management 

The MSM and foot soldiers are desperately doubling down on the perception management because their power is slipping away
as more and more people think for themselves and get their news from other sources...

Im curious. If we wake up tomorrow and Mueller announces he's done with the investigation and hes recommending charges and or impeachment, will you ever accept the investigation / judge / jury /  Congress' findings? 

[bee]

11 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Im curious. If we wake up tomorrow and Mueller announces he's done with the investigation and hes recommending charges and or impeachment, will you ever accept the investigation / judge / jury /  Congress' findings? 

 

 that would, of course. depend on what the Findings were....

The Trump detractors and enemies have made it harder for themselves now, though, because they have been
so embroiled in twisting every little thing to the point of p****** off all but the Hard Core Haters... that it's like the
cautionary tale of the Boy Who Called Wolf... if they do ever find anything solid and significant it will be dismissed
as the usual BS... 

 

[Farmer77]

Just now, bee said:

 that would, of course. depend on what the Findings were....

Thats a reasonable enough answer I suppose.....for now 

 

[Mr.United_Nations]

Does anyone actually care about the media these days? Its full of bias, discrimination of thier own women employees, supporting of the super rich, not caring of the working class America. Plus nobody trusts these days esp with the whole Facebook fiasco 

[Farmer77]

8 minutes ago, Mr.United_Nations said:

Does anyone actually care about the media these days? Its full of bias, discrimination of thier own women employees, supporting of the super rich, not caring of the working class America. Plus nobody trusts these days esp with the whole Facebook fiasco 

Was this satire? 

 

 

[RavenHawk]

1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

Was this satire? 

It’s called observation.

[RavenHawk]

15 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

I claim to be an astronaut. Prove me wrong.

Yeah, “we’re all astronauts!”  Should we be concerned that you might be on secret shuttle flight to go blow up an asteroid barreling toward Earth?

[RavenHawk]

5 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Russians Fail To Hack Computers Of Democratic Sen. McCaskill

Pretty sure Mueller will be looking at the timing of Trump's verbal attacks on McCaskill and the Russian attempted hack. 

 

Pardon the pun but that report is fishy.  Just because there was a phishing attempt doesn’t mean it was an attempt to affect the midterms.  When I hear that, I think about a setup to blame Russia.  But in general, hacking does not imply interference.  Phishing goes on all the time.  How many other Congressmen reported phishing attempts?  From that report, there is no evidence of interfering with the midterms.  I would believe that it was Putin’s way to poke the tiger to see what the response would be.  Putin will try everything he can to test Trump’s patience.  I would guess that Putin is exploring the idea of peace but he isn’t going to do it blindly.  If he can easily trigger a negative response that will show our true colors then he’ll know that Trump is not the one to trust.  Do you really think that Putin would be that blatantly obvious?  Please folks, you need to start removing some of those older hooks from your mouths.  At least replace them with a nose ring.

[aztek]

talking about perception management