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OverSword

Majority of US Welcome Putin to White House

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Merc14
3 hours ago, Einsteinium said:

No, it is based on Trump conspiring with a foreign power to influence the election. Whether or not that influence had any real impact is actually something we may never be able to quantify, and as such, is not the right question to be asking.

 

Except he never did that, did he?  You imagining he did this is not proof. 

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  I prefer to ask questions that can be answered.

Why bother asking a question the answer doesn't matter? 

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If Trump did in fact conspire with the Russians to commit crimes such as hacking or to get around federal election funding laws or anything illegal, then he is guilty of criminal conspiracy which is a 'high crime or misdemeanor' and therefore should be impeached.

Above you claim he is guilty and two sentences later you are pretending to be impartial.  LMAO    Guess who did work with Russian intelligence?  Hillary so I guess she is guilty of   criminal conspiracy then huh? 

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Einsteinium
14 hours ago, Merc14 said:

Except he never did that, did he?

I think he did, evidence is pointing towards that conclusion, but I of course could be wrong and will gladly admit that I am if that is what the evidence ultimately shows.

 

14 hours ago, Merc14 said:

Why bother asking a question the answer doesn't matter?

I didn't ask the question, you did.

 

14 hours ago, Merc14 said:

Above you claim he is guilty and two sentences later you are pretending to be impartial.  LMAO

I can have an opinion that he is likely guilty, and also recognize that he is innocent until proven guilty. I don't know for a fact that he is guilty, I just think he likely is based on the direction the evidence is pointing towards and Trumps behavior.

 

14 hours ago, Merc14 said:

Guess who did work with Russian intelligence?  Hillary so I guess she is guilty of   criminal conspiracy then huh?

Again with your Hillary conspiracy theories eh? So now she is working with Russian intelligence? Makes so much sense then that they clearly wanted Trump to win and not her.

 

 

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Merc14
16 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

I think he did, evidence is pointing towards that conclusion, but I of course could be wrong and will gladly admit that I am if that is what the evidence ultimately shows.

Well you are in the minority there as not even Mueller is pursuing that myth any longer.   As far as gladly admitting you were wrong, please, you have never done so and are not expected to ever do so, you don't have it in you.  No, what you will do is cry cover-up or forever claim Mueller was forced to end his investigation early or ...... well, the excuses will be endless so not going to bother trying to list them all.

16 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

I didn't ask the question, you did.

:rolleyes:

16 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

I can have an opinion that he is likely guilty, and also recognize that he is innocent until proven guilty. I don't know for a fact that he is guilty, I just think he likely is based on the direction the evidence is pointing towards and Trumps behavior.

I think Trump's behavior is because he is frustrated that this ridiculous myth based on a garbage dossier is dominating the news cycle 24/7 and getting in the way of running this country.  Most of America is now sick of the BS

16 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

Again with your Hillary conspiracy theories eh? So now she is working with Russian intelligence? Makes so much sense then that they clearly wanted Trump to win and not her.

Michael Steele received the intelligence for his dossier from Russian sources, likely spy agency related.  Michael Steeled was paid by the Clinton campaign via intermediates.  Clinton and her top tier campaign staff were briefed regularly in the dossier, its contents and Michael Steele's activities.  We have ban records proving all this and now testimony as well.   Obviously Hillary was working with the Russians and her dossier being leaked shortly before the election surely had an effect on voting. 

As far as wanting Trump to win I believe it was more about disrupting the next president who was projected to be Hillary.  As soon as Hillary lost the Russians turned on Trump.

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Einsteinium
3 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

Well you are in the minority there as not even Mueller is pursuing that myth any longer.

And where did you hear this? I have not heard this, in fact, what Mueller is pursuing exactly only his team knows, he has been extremely leak free so far. But based on the evidence I have seen, I would be surprised if he was not pursuing a possible conspiracy at this point.

 

4 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

I think Trump's behavior is because he is frustrated that this ridiculous myth based on a garbage dossier is dominating the news cycle 24/7 and getting in the way of running this country.  Most of America is now sick of the BS

Funny thing is that Trump himself made this into what it is. By firing Comey the way he did and for the reason he said it was for (the Russia thing), and by his lying about the Trump tower meeting, lying constantly about Russia. He himself keeps this up. So either he is an idiot and doesn't even realize how his own actions are making this worse for him, or he is for some reason deliberately fanning the flames of this. Maybe he is, just to troll the country.

 

7 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

Michael Steele received the intelligence for his dossier from Russian sources, likely spy agency related.  Michael Steeled was paid by the Clinton campaign via intermediates.  Clinton and her top tier campaign staff were briefed regularly in the dossier, its contents and Michael Steele's activities.  We have ban records proving all this and now testimony as well.   Obviously Hillary was working with the Russians and her dossier being leaked shortly before the election surely had an effect on voting. 

Your history here is a bit wrong. Republicans actually started the dossier research through Fusion GPS before the primaries. Hillary's campaign then picked up funding the effort afterwards. Of course they were briefed regularly, this is standard opposition research. Parties hire 3rd party research firms all the time to conduct opposition research. Furthermore, the Steele dossier is just one piece of evidence that the FBI has that led to the investigation. The investigation was started when Australian officials reported that Trump adviser Papadaoupolous told them about his knowledge of the Russians dirt on Hillary. Trumps own loudmouth adviser kicked off this investigation into him, further corroborated and evidenced by some of the Steele Dossier.

But, you obviously just buy into the right wing media's narrative 100% without doing your own research, as you are just parroting their talking points here. Don't you think for yourself at all?

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Merc14
7 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

And where did you hear this? I have not heard this, in fact, what Mueller is pursuing exactly only his team knows, he has been extremely leak free so far. But based on the evidence I have seen, I would be surprised if he was not pursuing a possible conspiracy at this point.

 

Funny thing is that Trump himself made this into what it is. By firing Comey the way he did and for the reason he said it was for (the Russia thing), and by his lying about the Trump tower meeting, lying constantly about Russia. He himself keeps this up. So either he is an idiot and doesn't even realize how his own actions are making this worse for him, or he is for some reason deliberately fanning the flames of this. Maybe he is, just to troll the country.

Oh please!  Comey deserved to be fired, it should've been the first thing Trump did and Rosenstein agrees since he recommended that Trump fire Comey.

7 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

Your history here is a bit wrong. Republicans actually started the dossier research through Fusion GPS before the primaries. Hillary's campaign then picked up funding the effort afterwards. Of course they were briefed regularly, this is standard opposition research. Parties hire 3rd party research firms all the time to conduct opposition research. Furthermore, the Steele dossier is just one piece of evidence that the FBI has that led to the investigation. The investigation was started when Australian officials reported that Trump adviser Papadaoupolous told them about his knowledge of the Russians dirt on Hillary. Trumps own loudmouth adviser kicked off this investigation into him, further corroborated and evidenced by some of the Steele Dossier.

LMAO.  You are going to lean on that?  "Hillary worked with the Russians because a republican made her!"  (said in a whiny, childish leftist voice).  LMAO  You are getting really desperate.

7 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

But, you obviously just buy into the right wing media's narrative 100% without doing your own research, as you are just parroting their talking points here. Don't you think for yourself at all?

Nah, it is more like you are buying into the left wing media's narrative 100%.   I have been saying there was no Trump Russia collusion since before Mueller was hired.  BTW, Papa+10 was set up, he was an excuse and if he was truly guilty of teh dark crimes you laughably accuse him of he'd be charged for them.  THE fact that he isn't proves you have fallen for another leftist pipe dream

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Einsteinium
1 hour ago, Merc14 said:

Oh please!  Comey deserved to be fired, it should've been the first thing Trump did and Rosenstein agrees since he recommended that Trump fire Comey.

I agree he deserved to be fired. But Trump saying he fired him because of the 'Russia thing' just made Trumps Russia problem worse and it was all Trump's own fault. (though he will never admit it though, like all terrible bosses he takes all the credit when things go well, and shifts all the blame onto others when things go bad)

 

1 hour ago, Merc14 said:

LMAO.  You are going to lean on that?  "Hillary worked with the Russians because a republican made her!"  (said in a whiny, childish leftist voice).  LMAO  You are getting really desperate.

That is not at all what I said. The dossier research was started by the RNC, look it up, that is a fact. The way the DNC picked up the funding of the dossier and the way the research was conducted was pretty standard political opposition research. Your claims that something was illegal or wrong with the way this played out is not borne out by the facts. And your claim that Hillary was working with the Russians is just a bull**** claim not backed up by evidence.

 

1 hour ago, Merc14 said:

Nah, it is more like you are buying into the left wing media's narrative 100%.   I have been saying there was no Trump Russia collusion since before Mueller was hired.  BTW, Papa+10 was set up, he was an excuse and if he was truly guilty of teh dark crimes you laughably accuse him of he'd be charged for them.  THE fact that he isn't proves you have fallen for another leftist pipe dream

Of course you were saying there was no Trump Russia collusion before we know all the facts. You literally just admitted to just parroting Trumps narrative without knowing the facts or even caring about what the facts are.

Uhm, he was charged with a lesser crime and pled guilty, that is pretty standard for someone who has agreed to cooperate in exchange for a lesser charge. Lots of people around Trump are being charged with crimes, pled guilty to crimes... He seems to surround himself with criminals. Someone who has friends like that is usually breaking the law themselves as well.

Edited by Einsteinium
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Merc14
19 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

I agree he deserved to be fired. But Trump saying he fired him because of the 'Russia thing' just made Trumps Russia problem worse and it was all Trump's own fault. (though he will never admit it though, like all terrible bosses he takes all the credit when things go well, and shifts all the blame onto others when things go bad)

 

That is not at all what I said. The dossier research was started by the RNC, look it up, that is a fact. The way the DNC picked up the funding of the dossier and the way the research was conducted was pretty standard political opposition research. Your claims that something was illegal or wrong with the way this played out is not borne out by the facts.

You democrats are the ones screaming crime here, not us.   Colluding with Russians to get dirt on your opponent isn't necessarily a crime, as far as I know, but somehow we have a special prosecutor tearing people's lives up trying to find it in the Trump team ad all the while we have evidence that this exact collusion the media is screaming about took place in the Clinton campaign.  

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And your claim that Hillary was working with the Russians is just a bull**** claim not backed up by evidence. 

Who paid FusionGPS and, therefore, Steele?

 

19 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

 

Of course you were saying there was no Trump Russia collusion before we know all the facts. You literally just admitted to just parroting Trumps narrative without knowing the facts or even caring about what the facts are.

How do you know what I knew?  LMAO 

19 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

Uhm, he was charged with a lesser crime and pled guilty, that is pretty standard for someone who has agreed to cooperate in exchange for a lesser charge. Lots of people around Trump are being charged with crimes, pled guilty to crimes... He seems to surround himself with criminals. Someone who has friends like that is usually breaking the law themselves as well.

Oh what utter BS.  LMAO.  How can you look in the mirror after posting something so ridiculous?   If he had the guy on espionage charges he'd arrest him and charge him with it,  Too funny 

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Einsteinium
4 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

You democrats are the ones screaming crime here, not us.   Colluding with Russians to get dirt on your opponent isn't necessarily a crime, as far as I know

Conspiring with a foreign government to obtain illegally obtained information about a political opponent is a crime, it is a criminal conspiracy.

 

7 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

Who paid FusionGPS and, therefore, Steele?

The RNC was the first funding source, and then the Hillary campaign picked it up.

Big difference here is that as far as we know, the information Steele obtained was not obtained illegally like the hacked emails that the Russian government released in timestep with Trump campaign strategy

 

10 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

How do you know what I knew?  LMAO 

Well unless you are an insider in some way, i assume you had the same information available to you at that time as I did.

 

11 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

Oh what utter BS.  LMAO.  How can you look in the mirror after posting something so ridiculous?   If he had the guy on espionage charges he'd arrest him and charge him with it,  Too funny

You must not know much about how criminal investigations work. This is progressing just like an organized crime investigation where they work their way up to the high level people by getting the low level people to flip and give more information on the higher level people. In order to get someone to flip, they have to offer them something. Often times this is a reduced charge, reduced sentence, or even the dismissal of charges if the information they can offer is significant enough. So, either Papadoupolous is just a fool with loose lips who didn't know much and pled guilty because he felt it was the right thing to do, or he knows more, could have been charged with more, and cut a deal to exchange information for a lesser charge. We just don't yet know for sure, but I can read the tea leaves and see where this is likely leading- straight to Trump.

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GlitterRose
57 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

I agree he deserved to be fired. But Trump saying he fired him because of the 'Russia thing' just made Trumps Russia problem worse and it was all Trump's own fault. (though he will never admit it though, like all terrible bosses he takes all the credit when things go well, and shifts all the blame onto others when things go bad)

 

That is not at all what I said. The dossier research was started by the RNC, look it up, that is a fact. The way the DNC picked up the funding of the dossier and the way the research was conducted was pretty standard political opposition research. Your claims that something was illegal or wrong with the way this played out is not borne out by the facts. And your claim that Hillary was working with the Russians is just a bull**** claim not backed up by evidence.

 

Of course you were saying there was no Trump Russia collusion before we know all the facts. You literally just admitted to just parroting Trumps narrative without knowing the facts or even caring about what the facts are.

Uhm, he was charged with a lesser crime and pled guilty, that is pretty standard for someone who has agreed to cooperate in exchange for a lesser charge. Lots of people around Trump are being charged with crimes, pled guilty to crimes... He seems to surround himself with criminals. Someone who has friends like that is usually breaking the law themselves as well.

Give us what we need
Lies we can believe in
Truth is not the key...

What can ya do, Einsteinium? 

Who can stand the naked truth?

 

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Merc14
39 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

Conspiring with a foreign government to obtain illegally obtained information about a political opponent is a crime, it is a criminal conspiracy.

So Hillary's campaign did commit a crime?  Hmm, wonder why Mueller hasn't arrested her and her staff.

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The RNC was the first funding source, and then the Hillary campaign picked it up.

No it wasn't, the Conservative Free beacon originally funded it. 

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Big difference here is that as far as we know, the information Steele obtained was not obtained illegally like the hacked emails that the Russian government released in timestep with Trump campaign strategy

LOL, thanks for putting this in here, kind of tops off teh madness.

Quote

 

Well unless you are an insider in some way, i assume you had the same information available to you at that time as I did.

 

You must not know much about how criminal investigations work. This is progressing just like an organized crime investigation where they work their way up to the high level people by getting the low level people to flip and give more information on the higher level people. In order to get someone to flip, they have to offer them something. Often times this is a reduced charge, reduced sentence, or even the dismissal of charges if the information they can offer is significant enough. So, either Papadoupolous is just a fool with loose lips who didn't know much and pled guilty because he felt it was the right thing to do, or he knows more, could have been charged with more, and cut a deal to exchange information for a lesser charge. We just don't yet know for sure, but I can read the tea leaves and see where this is likely leading- straight to Trump.

Sure eiinie, sure, keep hope alive and all that.  :tu::rolleyes:

Edited by Merc14

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Einsteinium
2 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

So Hillary's campaign did commit a crime?  Hmm, wonder why Mueller hasn't arrested her and her staff.

What makes you think she committed a crime? Where is your evidence?

 

3 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

No it wasn't, the Conservative Free beacon originally funded it.

Thank you for correcting me, you are right. I knew it was a republican group and I wrongly stated it was the RNC. I stand corrected.

 

3 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

LOL, thanks for putting this in here, kind of tops off teh madness.

Did Steele break any laws to obtain his information? From what I have seen, no. He used a network of informants yes, but there is nothing illegal about that.

 

5 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

Sure eiinie, sure, keep hope alive and all that.

I try Merc. I really try to keep hope alive. But when I see Trump supporters just fully swallowing his BS and parroting his claims of "NO COLLUSION" and other such nonsense, I lose a lot of hope. I see so many people so desperate for a strongman leader to tell them what to think and how to feel that I really do feel that we may be taking the first steps down a path that only ends in tyrrany. Trump may just be the catalyst that starts that process, the one who primes the pump so to speak, but the things he is normalizing are the types of things that lead to Tyranny and that is what I am afraid of most of all. Mr. Trump himself may just be a fool and an aberration, but the things he is normalizing and the divisions he is targeting to divide are very dangerous things to mess with and I fear what that is doing to our society long term.

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ExpandMyMind
6 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

I see so many people so desperate for a strongman leader to tell them what to think and how to feel that I really do feel that we may be taking the first steps down a path that only ends in tyrrany. Trump may just be the catalyst that starts that process, the one who primes the pump so to speak, but the things he is normalizing are the types of things that lead to Tyranny and that is what I am afraid of most of all. Mr. Trump himself may just be a fool and an aberration, but the things he is normalizing and the divisions he is targeting to divide are very dangerous things to mess with and I fear what that is doing to our society long term.

This is exactly what is so shocking about the acceptance of Trump's behaviour and actions, worded absolutely perfectly. It's not even hyperbole. It's truly a dangerous path that too many can't even see.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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Michelle

It's still amazing to watch the same people complain about Trump dividing people...actually driving wedges between everyone. Us and them, Republicans and Democrats, black and white, gay and straight, etc... I know diddly squat about anyone at UM when they join and meet everyone with an open mind. When they start compartmentalizing everyone I become very wary. I do have to tolerate business associates with the same attitude, but we will never be friends.

It's truly amazing how they are reflecting what they say they hate most.

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Einsteinium
33 minutes ago, Michelle said:

It's still amazing to watch the same people complain about Trump dividing people...actually driving wedges between everyone. Us and them, Republicans and Democrats, black and white, gay and straight, etc... I know diddly squat about anyone at UM when they join and meet everyone with an open mind. When they start compartmentalizing everyone I become very wary. I do have to tolerate business associates with the same attitude, but we will never be friends.

It's truly amazing how they are reflecting what they say they hate most.

I agree to an extent, but what I see is Trump supporters just parroting Trumps rhetoric and arguments, and those who care about truth being shocked and appalled by how Trump supporters backing him up and repeating his lies and narrative.

It sounds like you are arguing that those who want the truth to be known are just as bad as those who seek to obfuscate the truth. This is another dangerous moral equivalence that I see being put out there by Trump supporters. Another extension of Trump's "there is blame on both sides" argument. I don't buy it. Bring the truth out, if the truth offends you Trump supporters then so be it, you keep complaining about a generation of snowflakes now it is your chance to step up and prove you are not exactly the same as they are.

This truly is becoming a truth vs. alternate reality division. I suppose we need to decide what is more important, understanding reality as it is, or making up our own reality and ignoring all evidence contrary to that reality. Trump supporters fall into the second category whereby they keep progressing further and further from objective truthful reality in order to protect Trump, the nations biggest snowflake, from uncomfortable realities and make sure he has a 'safe space' of supporters he can retreat to and recharge his ego.

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Michelle

When you put me in the "Trump supporter" category and generalized about them I quit reading. You've compartmentalized me incorrectly.

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Einsteinium
4 minutes ago, Michelle said:

When you put me in the "Trump supporter" category I quit reading. You've compartmentalized me incorrectly.

Okay, so you are not a Trump supporter. Great! Glad to hear that you are on the side of truth and justice!

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Michelle
7 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

Okay, so you are not a Trump supporter. Great! Glad to hear that you are on the side of truth and justice!

Your approval means about as much to me as the KKK's is to a black person.

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Merc14
30 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

Okay, so you are not a Trump supporter. Great! Glad to hear that you are on the side of truth and justice!

HS what gall!!!!  You have made up a story and then condemned Trump of being guilty of your made up crime and then you have the gall to hold yourself up as a pillar truth and justice?  LMAO, Wow!.  Seriously, this is the worst case of left wing hubris I think I have ever seen, congrats on your disgusting accomplishment.  :D:tu:

Yeech, I want to wash off after conversing with you. How horrible it must be to live life so full of hatred and anger just because you didn't get your way in an election.  I didn't like Obama because he was such a terrible president but my God I never behaved like you people.  It's nuts!  Should be interesting to observe your reaction when Mueller drops his report full of nothing more than  vitriolic speculation which should be around the midterms, probably two weeks prior to the vote as I have been predicting. 

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Einsteinium
1 minute ago, Merc14 said:

HS what gall!!!!  You have made up a story and then condemned Trump of being guilty of your made up crime and then you have the gall to hold yourself up as a pillar truth and justice?  LMAO, Wow!.  Seriously, this is the worst case of left wing hubris I think I have ever seen, congrats on your disgusting accomplishment.  :D:tu:

Yeech, I want to wash off after conversing with you. How horrible it must be to live life so full of hatred and anger just because you didn't get your way in an election.  I didn't like Obama because he was such a terrible president but my God I never behaved like you people.  It's nuts!  Should be interesting to observe your reaction when Mueller drops his report full of nothing more than  vitriolic speculation which should be around the midterms, probably two weeks prior to the vote as I have been predicting. 

You are really something Merc. I am entitled to my opinion, I just don't think my opinion is equal to objective reality like you do.

In my opinion, Trump is likely guilty of several crimes.

Factually, Trump is innocent until proven guilty, he has not been proven guilty, not by a long shot.

 

I recognize the difference between my opinion, and reality. Do you? I apparently have done a very poor job of differentiating between my opinion and objective truth, but then again the bar is not very high for Trump supporters in that regard given how they think Trump is telling the truth and the media is lying with plenty of evidence to the contrary. I admit, I had expected more from my fellow citizens and Trump has really made me realize how little I should ever expect from many of our fellow citizens.

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Merc14
3 hours ago, Einsteinium said:

You are really something Merc. I am entitled to my opinion, I just don't think my opinion is equal to objective reality like you do.

In my opinion, Trump is likely guilty of several crimes.

Factually, Trump is innocent until proven guilty, he has not been proven guilty, not by a long shot.

 

I recognize the difference between my opinion, and reality. Do you? I apparently have done a very poor job of differentiating between my opinion and objective truth, but then again the bar is not very high for Trump supporters in that regard given how they think Trump is telling the truth and the media is lying with plenty of evidence to the contrary. I admit, I had expected more from my fellow citizens and Trump has really made me realize how little I should ever expect from many of our fellow citizens.

I expect more from my fellow citizens as well.  The democrats behavior over the last two years has been  appalling by every measure. Visceral hatred from day one and not for any reason pertaining to the job he is doing, it is purely personal.  Democrats losst e election for a reason and refuse to accept that fact and like spoiled children have invented this Russia bogeyman.  Ridiculous since they interfere every election. 

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Einsteinium
On 8/3/2018 at 6:32 PM, Merc14 said:

I expect more from my fellow citizens as well.  The democrats behavior over the last two years has been  appalling by every measure. Visceral hatred from day one and not for any reason pertaining to the job he is doing, it is purely personal.  Democrats losst e election for a reason and refuse to accept that fact and like spoiled children have invented this Russia bogeyman.  Ridiculous since they interfere every election. 

The visceral hatred is due to his rhetoric, and I have to believe at this point that Mr. Trump is doing it on purpose and I believe it is likely to distract and obfuscate. I do blame the democrats for falling for his BS though and not keeping a clear head through this which would be far more beneficial. What Trump is doing is unifying his base by giving them clear common enemies to rally against. The Democrats seem to be trying to do the same which I think is a mistake. They will not beat Trump by fighting him at his level using his tactics.

 

 

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RavenHawk
14 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

The visceral hatred is due to his rhetoric, and I have to believe at this point that Mr. Trump is doing it on purpose

And it is also inspiring rhetoric.  It just depends if you are part of the swamp or not.  It is designed to raise Americans at the same time drive a spike into the heart of the swamp.  If you feel hatred from his rhetoric, then you are of the swamp.  If that is the case, too bad.  He promised to drain the swamp and that is what he is doing.  You can learn from it or not.

 

and I believe it is likely to distract and obfuscate.

Hardly.  It is finding its target.

 

I do blame the democrats for falling for his BS though and not keeping a clear head through this which would be far more beneficial.

They can’t help themselves.  Like a cockroach trying to scurry out of the sunlight.

 

What Trump is doing is unifying his base by giving them clear common enemies to rally against.

His base is America and the common enemies are domestic who have forgotten the promise of America.  There will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth but they can come out of the cold anytime they are ready.  It just depends on how much of a spoiled brat they want to be?

 

The Democrats seem to be trying to do the same which I think is a mistake. They will not beat Trump by fighting him at his level using his tactics.

That is exactly right, considering it is their tactics in the first place.  They are getting a very large dose of their own medicine.  They have no counter anyway.  American culture is about to be put back on track.  Along with success and Exceptionalism.  The Deporables have become the Elite.

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Einsteinium
4 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

nd it is also inspiring rhetoric.  It just depends if you are part of the swamp or not.  It is designed to raise Americans at the same time drive a spike into the heart of the swamp.  If you feel hatred from his rhetoric, then you are of the swamp.  If that is the case, too bad.  He promised to drain the swamp and that is what he is doing.  You can learn from it or not.

What a load of BS! What has he actually done to 'drain the swamp'? Corruption in his administration is abnormally high. Just look at Scott Pruitt, hard to find a bigger swamp monster than him. Not to mention Trump has filled appointments with lobbyists who made a career out of making the swamp what it is today.

This is one thing that Trump has done a great job fooling his supporters on. He is turning the swamp into a septic tank and has you all cheering him on while he does it. What a joke.

 

7 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

His base is America and the common enemies are domestic who have forgotten the promise of America.  There will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth but they can come out of the cold anytime they are ready.  It just depends on how much of a spoiled brat they want to be?

We are truly lost if you believe this crap.

 

8 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

That is exactly right, considering it is their tactics in the first place.  They are getting a very large dose of their own medicine.  They have no counter anyway.  American culture is about to be put back on track.  Along with success and Exceptionalism.  The Deporables have become the Elite.

I agree on the democrats. Disagree that American culture is about to be put back on track but then again, I suppose if you consider American culture to be the culture of the 1920s-30's then sure, perhaps this is the case. I hope that you are in a position to weather the coming storm safely.

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RavenHawk
On 8/3/2018 at 1:41 PM, Einsteinium said:

but then again the bar is not very high for Trump supporters in that regard given how they think Trump is telling the truth and the media is lying with plenty of evidence to the contrary.

That he embellishes facts is really unimportant.  It’s what his intentions are that register with his supporters.  So tell me, when something like 96% of all the news reported on Trump is negative, can anyone be that bad or is the MSM lying?  This is matter of statistics.  No matter what Trump does, the MSM weaves it negatively.  They go out of their way not to give Trump any credit.  Obama blatantly tried to rip apart the Constitution and the MSM said nothing.  Trump tries to restore our dignity and he is eviscerated.  The MSM cannot be believed anymore.

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Einsteinium
2 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

That he embellishes facts is really unimportant.  It’s what his intentions are that register with his supporters.  So tell me, when something like 96% of all the news reported on Trump is negative, can anyone be that bad or is the MSM lying?  This is matter of statistics.  No matter what Trump does, the MSM weaves it negatively.  They go out of their way not to give Trump any credit.  Obama blatantly tried to rip apart the Constitution and the MSM said nothing.  Trump tries to restore our dignity and he is eviscerated.  The MSM cannot be believed anymore.

 

He does far more than embellish facts, he says things that are provably and totally untrue. That is dangerous, how can you not see that?

The MSM has on several occasions that I can think of, broke news that was not true about Trump, but in every case they owned up to their mistake and corrected it later. Trump does not own up to his falsehoods and often does not correct them later. The MSM is struggling to cover this president because they have never seen anything like him before. They actually have had discussions on air over how they should be covering the Trump administration and how to cover the sheer number of his falsehoods and call him out on them (which is their job after all) without making themselves appear biased against him. There is no good answer here. If you simply call out Trumps lies, it seems like you are biased against him because there are so many lies to call out. If you don't call out his lies, then you are not doing your job of uncovering the truth and holding politicians to account. Then you have fox news which has morphed into basically a propaganda outlet which further complicates everything. You have legitimate news networks who appear biased for merely calling out the administrations falsehoods, and you have a competing network more than willing to turn a blind eye to those falsehoods for the sake of ratings and power of having presidential favor.

So the MSM is really stuck between a rock and a hard place. No matter what they do, Trump wins in the eyes of his base. His base does not seem to understand the issues the media is dealing with or understand how Trump is manipulating the narrative. His blind supporters are the source of his power and his ability to manipulate the narrative. Truth does not matter to his supporters and he understands this and uses it.

My main concern is for our system and our ability to discern what objective reality is. Call me what you want, but Trump is at the center of this storm that is threatening our very reality and our very systems meant to protect and reveal the truth and I for one see what he is and what he is trying to do. I just hope more of his supporters wake up and see what is going on before civil war 2 breaks out.

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