LightAngel Posted July 29, 2018 #1 Share Posted July 29, 2018 ROME — Pope Francis has accepted the resignation of Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick, the former archbishop of Washington, from the College of Cardinals, ordering him to a “life of prayer and penance” after allegations that the cardinal sexually abused minors and adult seminarians over the course of decades, the Vatican announced on Saturday. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/28/world/europe/cardinal-theodore-mccarrick-resigns.html 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightAngel Posted July 29, 2018 Author #2 Share Posted July 29, 2018 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted July 29, 2018 #3 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Hope he enjoys his religions version of hell 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted July 29, 2018 #4 Share Posted July 29, 2018 22 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said: Hope he enjoys his religions version of hell One could wish, but according to the tenets of Catholicism, once an Christian, always a Christian and Christians don't go to Hell--whatever that is. Even the excommunicated are still considered Christians. Makes no sense to me, but religion isn't especially renown in the sense department. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted July 29, 2018 #5 Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said: One could wish, but according to the tenets of Catholicism, once an Christian, always a Christian and Christians don't go to Hell--whatever that is. Even the excommunicated are still considered Christians. Makes no sense to me, but religion isn't especially renown in the sense department. Edited July 29, 2018 by Imaginarynumber1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted July 29, 2018 #6 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Just now, Imaginarynumber1 said: Kreegah, Bolgani! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightAngel Posted July 29, 2018 Author #7 Share Posted July 29, 2018 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ouija ouija Posted July 29, 2018 #8 Share Posted July 29, 2018 No one's pressing any charges? He's not going to end up in court? If not, why not? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightAngel Posted July 29, 2018 Author #9 Share Posted July 29, 2018 1 hour ago, ouija ouija said: No one's pressing any charges? He's not going to end up in court? If not, why not? Charge the whole Roman Catholic Church! Yes, I'm angry! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truthseeker007 Posted July 29, 2018 #10 Share Posted July 29, 2018 8 hours ago, LightAngel said: ROME — Pope Francis has accepted the resignation of Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick, the former archbishop of Washington, from the College of Cardinals, ordering him to a “life of prayer and penance” after allegations that the cardinal sexually abused minors and adult seminarians over the course of decades, the Vatican announced on Saturday. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/28/world/europe/cardinal-theodore-mccarrick-resigns.html I guess the laws don't apply to them. Shouldn't he get jail time for what he did? He messed with a lot of peoples lives. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted July 30, 2018 #11 Share Posted July 30, 2018 10 hours ago, Truthseeker007 said: I guess the laws don't apply to them. Shouldn't he get jail time for what he did? He messed with a lot of peoples lives. You don't go to gaol until you've been sentenced. These are still allegations at this stage and McCarrick still maintains his innocence. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightAngel Posted July 30, 2018 Author #12 Share Posted July 30, 2018 16 hours ago, Truthseeker007 said: He messed with a lot of peoples lives. There are so many victims because the church covered up sexual abuse! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightAngel Posted August 1, 2018 Author #13 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Where are all you Christians now?! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podo Posted August 3, 2018 #14 Share Posted August 3, 2018 On 7/29/2018 at 12:01 AM, LightAngel said: “life of prayer and penance” A life of prayer and penance is not nearly enough. This man needs to pay restitution to those poor children and their families, as well as rot in jail until he dies ignobly and forgotten. What a piece of ****. Tell me again how the Abrahamic god is fair and just. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightAngel Posted August 4, 2018 Author #15 Share Posted August 4, 2018 4 hours ago, Podo said: This man needs to pay restitution to those poor children and their families The Catholic Church has for years protected these abusers, so he isn't the only one who needs to pay. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted August 4, 2018 #16 Share Posted August 4, 2018 On 7/29/2018 at 1:07 AM, Hammerclaw said: One could wish, but according to the tenets of Catholicism, once an Christian, always a Christian and Christians don't go to Hell--whatever that is. Even the excommunicated are still considered Christians. Makes no sense to me, but religion isn't especially renown in the sense department. Correct me if I am wrong, but a Catholic is only damned if they commit a Mortal Sin and are not absolved of it before they die. They don't get a "get out of Hell free" card. Going off the Bible... Almost everyone will be going to the Fire, Christian or not. Unless you subscribe to the theology of being Saved by Grace. Then, we all start as Saved, and simply have to confess our failings, and we are good. AFAIK, the Catholics don't follow that though, and have to be absolved of sins by a priest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noxasa Posted August 4, 2018 #17 Share Posted August 4, 2018 33 minutes ago, DieChecker said: Correct me if I am wrong, but a Catholic is only damned if they commit a Mortal Sin and are not absolved of it before they die. They don't get a "get out of Hell free" card. Going off the Bible... Almost everyone will be going to the Fire, Christian or not. Unless you subscribe to the theology of being Saved by Grace. Then, we all start as Saved, and simply have to confess our failings, and we are good. AFAIK, the Catholics don't follow that though, and have to be absolved of sins by a priest. No, that's not at all what Catholics follow or believe. I really think this forum is not a good place for a theological discussion so I won't try. All I can say is that you don't understand Catholic theology so you shouldn't try to represent it here as it only reinforces misinformation. The concept of what the Pope said is based around the idea that his real struggle is with finding the grace of God in his life that would bring his freewill to a state of repentance and return him to a eternal relationship with God. Any temporal punishments he may have to endure for his crimes, although completely justified and should be pursued, are nothing compared to what Catholics believe will be his eternal punishments of a non-repentant soul, and that is what the Pope is referring to. To me it's a ill-advised public statement that the Pope should not have made. He should have kept it as a private sentiment within the Church as it could only be understood there. Non-Christians would only see his comment through secular eyes/ears which is not what he meant by it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted August 4, 2018 #18 Share Posted August 4, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Noxasa said: 7 hours ago, DieChecker said: Correct me if I am wrong, but a Catholic is only damned if they commit a Mortal Sin and are not absolved of it before they die. They don't get a "get out of Hell free" card. ... AFAIK, the Catholics don't follow that though, and have to be absolved of sins by a priest. No, that's not at all what Catholics follow or believe. I really think this forum is not a good place for a theological discussion so I won't try. All I can say is that you don't understand Catholic theology so you shouldn't try to represent it here as it only reinforces misinformation. Please... Point me at a web site then so that I might learn. Otherwise why should I believe that you know something that I didn't find online when looking into it (given... quickly) last night? EDIT: Quote Sometimes people make it sound like the Catholic understanding of how to get to heaven is really complex. It’s not. While you can go into any of Christ’s teachings in a lot of very rich detail, he made sure that this one can be understood even by a child. I can summarize it in two sentences. The two sentences are these: To come to God and be saved, you need to repent, have faith, and be baptized. If you commit mortal sin, you need to repent, have faith, and go to confession. That’s it. That’s all there is to it. And we can show each of these things from the Bible. https://www.catholic.com/index.php/magazine/online-edition/how-to-go-to-heaven Doesn't that agree with what I posted? Is Catholic.com a bad source of info on Catholics? Quote The concept of what the Pope said is based around the idea that his real struggle is with finding the grace of God in his life that would bring his freewill to a state of repentance and return him to a eternal relationship with God. Any temporal punishments he may have to endure for his crimes, although completely justified and should be pursued, are nothing compared to what Catholics believe will be his eternal punishments of a non-repentant soul, and that is what the Pope is referring to. Yeah, I don't think I disagreed with that. Where he goes/suffers depends on if he actually is non-repentant, and if he was absolved in confession, or not. Edited August 4, 2018 by DieChecker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted August 4, 2018 #19 Share Posted August 4, 2018 33 minutes ago, DieChecker said: Please... Point me at a web site then so that I might learn. Otherwise why should I believe that you know something that I didn't find online when looking into it (given... quickly) last night? EDIT: https://www.catholic.com/index.php/magazine/online-edition/how-to-go-to-heaven Doesn't that agree with what I posted? Is Catholic.com a bad source of info on Catholics? Yeah, I don't think I disagreed with that. Where he goes/suffers depends on if he actually is non-repentant, and if he was absolved in confession, or not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted August 4, 2018 #20 Share Posted August 4, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatory From the link: Quote Catholicism The Catholic Church gives the name purgatory to the final purification of all who die in God's grace and friendship but are still imperfectly purified.[24] Though purgatory is often pictured as a place rather than a process of purification, the idea of purgatory as a physical place with time is not part of the Church's doctrine.[25] Heaven and Hell A depiction of purgatory by Venezuelan painter Cristóbal Rojas (1890) representing the boundary between heaven (above) and hell (below) According to Catholic belief, death is immediately followed by the judgment in which the soul's eternal destiny is specified.[26] Some are eternally united with God in Heaven, envisioned as a paradise of unending bliss, where Theosis is completed and one experiences the beatific vision. Conversely, others reach Hell, that is chiefly a state of eternal, irreversible separation from God[27] often envisioned as an abode of unending torment, often characterised as a fire that may be considered metaphorical.[28] Note: "All who die in God's grace and friendship", from my quick reading does not include those who have not been absolved (in confession) of a deadly/mortal sin. That is why they are called Deadly/Mortal sins. And why those who are dying often are desperate for a Priest to be found before they die. Edited August 4, 2018 by DieChecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted August 4, 2018 #21 Share Posted August 4, 2018 Accepting his resignation is a small step in the right direction. It's better than what they were doing before, which was just shuffling offenders around. He should live out his "life of prayer and penance" in a prison cell, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted August 4, 2018 #22 Share Posted August 4, 2018 On 7/29/2018 at 7:09 PM, Golden Duck said: You don't go to gaol until you've been sentenced. These are still allegations at this stage and McCarrick still maintains his innocence. So much for penance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted August 4, 2018 #23 Share Posted August 4, 2018 Absolutely, it should be taken to court and proven, but there must be rather a stunning amount of evidence for the Pope to take this action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted August 4, 2018 #24 Share Posted August 4, 2018 19 hours ago, Podo said: A life of prayer and penance is not nearly enough. This man needs to pay restitution to those poor children and their families, as well as rot in jail until he dies ignobly and forgotten. What a piece of ****. Tell me again how the Abrahamic god is fair and just. The Vatican should pay restitution. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted August 4, 2018 #25 Share Posted August 4, 2018 On 7/30/2018 at 12:51 AM, LightAngel said: There are so many victims because the church covered up sexual abuse! The Church sees this as just another sin that they can absolve. They are about saving souls, not lives, and they have tried desperately to cover this up. They have not been very good at honoring the laws of whatever land they're in. The result has been actual policy that enables pedophiles. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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