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White Crane Feather
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

So much on Netflix, so little time. :) My adult nephews watch it and recommend it, but i just haven't had the time  

The idea has been around for at least half a century in  books and films  There was a film called something  like,  The illusionist",  which used the technique as a magic trick, having got the technology from  Nicholas Tesla,  but they allowed one of the clones to drown every time. 

Yeah saw that one. Black mirror has a lot of episodes around the theme of copying your consciousness into computers and putting them into artificial environments. Some episodes focus on the potential for slavery while other episodes explore more utilitarian functions that can help humanity. Imagine having an app with your consciousness downloaded into it. The app searches your surroundings until it links with a potential mates app. Then the two apps run a high speed simulation with the two consciousness that covers thousands of years worth of dating and only comes back with a match if 99% of the time you have an extremely positive outcome after thousands of trials. 

The possibilities are endless. 

By the way. One of my students just got a fellowship to Harvard and is now working on building quantum materials. She was telling me all about it over lunch the other week. Things are indeed moving. 

 

Edited by White Crane Feather
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joc
2 hours ago, White Crane Feather said:

I guess I just don’t understand where you are comeinfrom when discussing this particular subject. We do have the right technology and knowledge to land on mars et all. It’s just a matter of putting it to use and building it. We can cure aids. A bone marrow transplant with someone that has a natural immunity will cure it. Is it moral? Maybe if we can start cloneing said marrow, but as of right now I doubt that tiny population of people wants to be a pin cushion, and we’d have to test thousand and thousands of people for immunity. I suppose that could be done in a lab with extracted marrow, but the other option is absolutely immorl too. We also have the tech to put animals into stasis and bring them back, but there are also moral concerns about humans.

 A planet killing nuke is just about scale. A war head the size of a skyscraper should do it. Easy enough if the right resources are applied, but why build one when you can build many.

Anyway. My original point is That we can accomplish a lot of things with Manhattan project style focus, and some of those things can propel humanity leaps forward if we just find away to make them happen. 

My thought process it's not really hard to understand. I live in a world called Now.

The past only exists as memory...the future only exists as anticipation.  Right now...we do not have the technology available to step foot on Mars. In ten years we very well may.  Right now we don't.   Nor do we have the technology to make a nuclear weapon the size of the Empire State Building.  Potential does not equal reality.  We do have Lazer Weapons on ships in our Navy.  But when President Reagan suggested it we did NOT have the technology. He knew we had the potential to create them.  

The only difference is, I live in the real world, and you live in anticipation of what may be and then claim that it already is...when it obviously isn't.

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Horta

 

On 8/22/2018 at 9:47 PM, joc said:

It isn't the ethics that will prevent it...the impossibility of it is the point. Consciousness is more than what you believe it is.   A classic case of reading science and believing it. Get past the voodoo...and think about it.

What is your definition of "consciousness"?

Quote

Even if...it was technologically possible to download human memory...what you would have is 'memory' on a disc. 

Memory is only one function of the mind though, so that's a little bit of a strawman. Then again, even memories themselves aren't so much remembered as recreated, which is why they are so fallible.

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Memory does not equal consciousness. 

I agree. What does?

Quote

Consciousness = Life.

What about brain damaged people? Those who are alive but not conscious? Coma patients? What about people who are (properly) anaethsetised? They don't appear to be conscious. What about a turnip lol...would being alive make it conscious?

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joc
20 hours ago, Horta said:

 

What is your definition of "consciousness"?

con·scious·ness
ˈkän(t)SHəsnəs/
noun
 
  1. the state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings.
    "she failed to regain consciousness and died two days later"
    • the awareness or perception of something by a person.
      plural noun: consciousnesses
      "her acute consciousness of Mike's presence"
    • the fact of awareness by the mind of itself and the world.
      "consciousness emerges from the operations of the brain"

Memory is only one function of the mind though, so that's a little bit of a strawman. Then again, even memories themselves aren't so much remembered as recreated, which is why they are so fallible.

In our conscious state we are able to access our memories and infuse them into our conscious thought process.  That is a 'living' condition.

I agree. What does?

See above definition of Consciousness

What about brain damaged people? Those who are alive but not conscious? Coma patients? What about people who are (properly) anaethsetised? They don't appear to be conscious. What about a turnip lol...would being alive make it conscious?

That would be a condition known as Unconscious...but as you said, they are alive...Both conscious and unconscious are conditions of living entities...for example a rock is neither conscious or unconscious.

I don't know whether turnips have consciousness or not...you would have to ask one I suppose.  Call any vegetable, call it by name, it will respond to you...(Zappa)  It is interesting however that many weeds appear next to plants that they have remarkable similarity to.  

 

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Horta
On 9/13/2018 at 9:29 PM, joc said:

In our conscious state we are able to access our memories and infuse them into our conscious thought process.  That is a 'living' condition.

No, machines are exponentially better at recalling and processing memory than humans.  This "living" condition and consciousness are an expression of the same basic matter and fundamental forces of nature as everything else, underneath it all. It's a mechanical process, there is no magic.

Quote

I don't know whether turnips have consciousness or not...you would have to ask one I suppose.  Call any vegetable, call it by name, it will respond to you...(Zappa)  It is interesting however that many weeds appear next to plants that they have remarkable similarity to.

Obviously turnips aren't conscious which therefore makes "consciousness=life" wrong, doesn't it? 

It seems close to certainty that human level intelligence and consciousness will be replicated in machines. The virtual simulations of small mammal brain regions looks promising. They react to stimuli the same as normal brains do. Soon after the processing power is available, the human brain is going to be replicated. IMO consciousness (to the extant that separates us from other critters) is not something we are born with anyway, it's learned socially.

 

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joc
9 hours ago, Horta said:

No, machines are exponentially better at recalling and processing memory than humans.  This "living" condition and consciousness are an expression of the same basic matter and fundamental forces of nature as everything else, underneath it all. It's a mechanical process, there is no magic..

 

Yeah, I get that Horta, but there is one very small detail you are not including in your explanation.  That detail is the fact that machines have no 'thought process'.  They cannot take the memory they possess and infuse it into their thought process...bdcause they don't have one. A thought is much more than a series of ones and zeros expressed in an algorithm.

See, here is the rub: without machines...we still have thought process.  Without us...machines are very soon inanimate objects.  They require electricity, provided by us.  They require programming...in and of themselves, there is no magic.

 

HORTA Quoted:

Obviously turnips aren't conscious which therefore makes "consciousness=life" wrong, doesn't it? 

---------------------------------------

There was a study done once where a group of people walked single file by some plants that were wired to polygraph machines.  One person stopped and burned a plant with a cigarette lighter.  The plant responded with a series of lines drawn on a graph...like an EKG for example.

Then the same group of people walked by with no one stopping...but...when the person that had burned the plant walked by...the plant responded with a series of lines drawn on a graph. The conclusion was that even plants have consciousness.

 

HORTA Quoted:

It seems close to certainty that human level intelligence and consciousness will be replicated in machines. The virtual simulations of small mammal brain regions looks promising. They react to stimuli the same as normal brains do. Soon after the processing power is available, the human brain is going to be replicated. IMO consciousness (to the extant that separates us from other critters) is not something we are born with anyway, it's learned socially.

------------------------

It seems far from certainty that will ever happen.

Consciousness IS not learned lol.

I will be redundant with my lizard story...sigh.

On a certain Island in the Galapagos...the only living creatures are iguana lizards and snakes. The lizards are aware of the snakes when they hatch from their eggs. Before they exit the sand they are hatched under they first pop an eye out of the sand...scanning the environment for snakes.

The Magic Horta...is  Living Tissue.

Edited by joc

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