What is our destination?

[Will Due]

 

There's one aspect of a world nation. One comprised of all the countries becoming states within a single world nation. That aspect is war.

All wars between states would end. They would be impossible because the states would not possess a military. Only the federal government would have that. Largely a police force.

Think about it. How likely is it that Nevada would go to war with Arizona?

 

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Will Due

[+Sherapy]

2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

There's one aspect of a world nation. One comprised of all the countries becoming states within a single world nation. That aspect is war.

All wars between states would end. They would be impossible because the states would not possess a military. Only the federal government would have that. Largely a police force.

Think about it. How likely is it that Nevada would go to war with Arizona?

 

 

What are you talking about? 

[Will Due]

 

In my opinion though, we're far from being ready for world government. 

 

 

[StarMountainKid]

2 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Think, for a moment, how you conveyed the above post. 

30 years ago, in 1978, the internet wasn't even an idea! Instant communications in your pocket? that was "SCI-FI" stuff!

80 years ago (1938), a trip to the moon was the dream of fabulists.

So what is "advanced technology", in your mind? FTL travel? Teleporters? Time travel?

How about the incredible advances we have made in the medical field? There are people alive today, that would have died of their injuries/maladies just 20 years ago!

And, theoretically, ANYTHING is possible, from a scientific/technological POV.

 

Technology is based on the laws of nature, physics, chemistry, biology, etc. that impose constraints on what is technologically possible. 

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

I guess voting in Australia is compulsory.

In America, it isn't. That's a big difference. I know this is off topic but I believe Australia is light years ahead of America in that regard. Light years.

How does it make sense to have a democracy where the electorate isn't required to vote?

But having said that, how does it make sense to compel the electorate to vote if they're not properly informed or educated on the tenets of the issues they're responsible to vote on?

Perhaps @psyche101 or @Mr Walker can chime in to let us know how Australia's voting system works. 

 

 

To me it is not the voting system which makes the difference Incidentally i am an opponent of compulsory voting because, when compelled, we do not have a freedom to vote, and it also  forces people with no knowledge at all about politics or society economics  etc to have a say, skewing social and economic policies in dangerous directions.

Sherapy doesn't like me commenting on America but i spent quite a bit of my university degree studying American history and political systems I also read a lot of political commentary ftrom america

IMO the differences are fundamental Basically Australia was settled by convicts and both citizens and govt thus accept a much greater govt control over our lives than America,where the first settlers were escaping govt control.

Secondly  We are the beneficiary of British social reforms in the  19th and 20th centuries which  include good social welfare and health  systems for all. Australians tend to be more socialist while Americans are more liberal and  individualistic  

Both countries value rugged pioneering spirit and Independence of   spirit but Americans had to fight much harder and longer to gain this so it is more strongly valued in America

There are other differences a s well   We have no equivalent of black slavery (only a very limited version using south sea islanders )  and only a limited similarity to the Native american question with our own native peoples.

Both countries have benefited by migration and both have social diversity.

Until now Australia has handled this better than America,  maybe because of numbers, or social policies of integration and assimilation  up until the last few decades, when multiculturalism became the game  ie in Australia by the second generation, historically,  young people are Australians, speaking English, and indistinguishable from other  Australians  no matter what nationality their parents were.

   But today it is an issue in both countries, where many feel national identity is being threatened, because people come to a country but want to retain the values and practices of their home countries, and some do not even learn English.   I could go on for pages but those are some basic differences  

 

 

 

      

Edited August 3, 2018 by Mr Walker

[Will Due]

1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

What are you talking about? 

 

Ok, think about the 50 states in the USA. 

Now think of all the 195 countries in the world. 

Expand the United States to encompass the entire globe instead of just America.

Then you would have 195 states in a new world nation.

And none of these new 195 states would have a need for a military. Therefore, no more wars. Because like in the USA, Connecticut does not go to war with Arkansas. If they have issues, it's worked out at the higher federal government level.

 

 

[+Sherapy]

4 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Ok, think about the 50 states in the USA. 

Now think of all the 195 countries in the world. 

Expand the United States to encompass the entire globe instead of just America.

Then you would have 195 states in a new world nation.

And none of these new 195 states would have a need for a military. Therefore, no more wars. Because like in the USA, Connecticut does not go to war with Arkansas. If they have issues, it's worked out at the higher federal government level.

 

 

Will, I know you don't live under a rock. Did you study History or government at all? 

We won't ybe having a one world government in our lifetime. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Sherapy

[Will Due]

Just now, Sherapy said:

We wont be having a one world government in our lifetime. 

 

You're right, I agree. But it will happen some day. But global civilization isn't ready for it yet. Not by a long shot.

But when they framed our constitution back in 1780 something, they said the same thing about what is now the USA.

 

 

[+Sherapy]

7 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

To me it is not the voting system which makes the difference Incidentally i am an opponent of compulsory voting because, when compelled, we do not have a freedom to vote, and it also  forces people with no knowledge at all about politics or society economics  etc to have a say, skewing social and economic policies in dangerous directions.

Sherapy doesn't like me commenting on America but i spent quite a bit of my university degree studying American history and political systems I also read a lot of political commentary ftrom america

IMO the differences are fundamental Basically Australia was settled by convicts and both citizens and govt thus accept a much greater govt control over our lives than America,where the first settlers were escaping govt control.

Secondly  We are the beneficiary of British social reforms in the  19th and 20th centuries which  include good social welfare and health  systems for all. Australians tend to be more socialist while Americans are more liberal and  individualistic  

Both countries value rugged pioneering spirit and Independence of   spirit but Americans had to fight much harder and longer to gain this so it is more strongly valued in America

There are other differences a s well   We have no equivalent of black slavery (only a very limited version using south sea islanders )  and only a limited similarity to the Native american question with our own native peoples.

Both countries have benefited by migration and both have social diversity.

Until now Australia has handled this better than America,  maybe because of numbers, or social policies of integration and assimilation  up until the last few decades, when multiculturalism became the game  ie in Australia by the second generation, historically,  young people are Australians, speaking English, and indistinguishable from other  Australians  no matter what nationality their parents were.

   But today it is an issue in both countries, where many feel national identity is being threatened, because people come to a country but want to retain the values and practices of their home countries, and some do not even learn English.   I could go on for pages but those are some basic differences  

 

 

 

      

And last nite you spent your University years studying the Bible, and the night before that you were a Psychology whiz, the week before that you were a doctor and the week before that an astronaut. 

I would not begin to speak on Australia, I have not stepped a foot in your country. 

 

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, StarMountainKid said:

It's convenient to use the phrase 'advanced technology' when envisioning some future, but I'm not convinced all these science fiction dreams can be achieved in real life. 'Advanced technology' is used as a catch phrase in which anything technological is possible. I think there are limits to what an advanced civilization can do. 'Advanced civilization' is another phrase that is used to describe these wonderous Alien races with unlimited potential.

In my opinion, an advanced civilization would be more economical and efficient than to build Dyson  spheres and ring worlds. I think the best way to survive for long periods is to create an environment that uses the least resources available, to turn inward instead of outward.

If there are advanced civilizations out there, I think they would create some perfect minimal environment for themselves and be shy about advertising their whereabouts. Why would they need space travel when their home is totally secure? 

I don't know how this security would be achieved, perhaps by genetic engineering, re-creating themselves into some form of life unimaginable to us. 

 

 

i base my opinion on both current science and the opinions of the scientists working in these areas That is the best i can do.

As an historian and  with an interest in anthropology and human culture i also see the nature of human beings. Ie to risk danger, to go forth and explore, discover, and seek new lands.  That hasn't changed since people colonised and settled places like Australia  and America often dying in the attempt. 

To survive and expand we certainly MUST create a sustainable society here on earth. We do risk running out of resources before we can get off world.

  But, to me, the two go together.  New frontiers  will create new political systems new economic models and new social systems  just a s the y always have.   Colonies will begin as dependencies of earth but over time assert  political and economic independence.

Earth will always be the historical  home of humanity but it will not always be the home of eves human.  Just as I am an Australian of the  fourth generation, and have never seen the Scotland of my ancestors, humans will live in many places and call themselves citizens of those places despite originating on earth. 

Among humans there are two types.  Those who are content to build and settle and those who need to explore and move outwards.

We need both types, and both contribute to our past, present, and future,   

[Mr Walker]

18 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

Technology is based on the laws of nature, physics, chemistry, biology, etc. that impose constraints on what is technologically possible. 

Those things don't impose very many constraints, and our understanding of them is constantly advancing . 

[Will Due]

4 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

 

I would not begin to speak on Australia, I have not stepped a foot in your country. 

 

 

But that's only because you refuse to buy astronaut boots. 

 

 

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Will Due said:

 

Thanks psyche.

 

I know you're going to laugh but check this out. It refers to the government of a nation on a neighboring planet that's situated on a continent similar to Australia.

You might find it interesting. But then again, probably not.

 

 

Cheers Will I've only glanced at the Urantia link, but I will read it from a literary perspective when I can give it more time later today. 

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

You've only a gaggle of States--we have fifty. It's a miracle voting here works as well as it does.

That's a fair point. 

[+Hammerclaw]

 

 

Rudyard Kipling

The Explorer

1898

There's no sense in going further -- it's the edge of cultivation,"
  So they said, and I believed it -- broke my land and sowed my crop --
Built my barns and strung my fences in the little border station
  Tucked away below the foothills where the trails run out and stop:

Till a voice, as bad as Conscience, rang interminable changes
  On one everlasting Whisper day and night repeated -- so:
"Something hidden.  Go and find it. Go and look behind the Ranges --
  "Something lost behind the Ranges. Lost and wating for you. Go!"

So I went, worn out of patience; never told my nearest neighbours --
  Stole away with pack and ponies -- left 'em drinking in the town;
And the faith that moveth mountains didn't seem to help my labours
  As I faced the sheer main-ranges, whipping up and leading down.

March by march I puzzled through 'em, turning flanks and dodging shoulders,
  Hurried on in hope of water, headed back for lack of grass;
Till I camped above the tree-line -- drifted snow and naked boulders --
  Felt free air astir to windward -- knew I'd stumbled on the Pass.

'Thought to name it for the finder: but that night the Norther found me --
  Froze and killed the plains-bred ponies; so I called the camp Despair
(It's the Railway Gap to-day, though). Then my Whisper waked to hound me: --
  "Something lost behind the Ranges.  Over yonder! Go you there!"

Then I knew, the while I doubted -- knew His Hand was certain o'er me.
  Still -- it might be self-delusion -- scores of better men had died --
I could reach the township living, but....e knows what terror tore me...
  But I didn't... but I didn't. I went down the other side.

Till the snow ran out in flowers, and the flowers turned to aloes,
  And the aloes sprung to thickets and a brimming stream ran by;
But the thickets dwined to thorn-scrub, and the water drained to shallows,
  And I dropped again on desert -- blasted earth, and blasting sky....

I remember lighting fires; I remember sitting by 'em;
  I remember seeing faces, hearing voices, through the smoke;
I remember they were fancy -- for I threw a stone to try 'em.
  "Something lost behind the Ranges" was the only word they spoke.

I remember going crazy. I remember that I knew it
When I heard myself hallooing to the funny folk I saw.
'Very full of dreams that desert, but my two legs took me through it...
And I used to watch 'em moving with the toes all black and raw.

But at last the country altered -- White Man's country past disputing --
  Rolling grass and open timber, with a hint of hills behind --
There I found me food and water, and I lay a week recruiting.
  Got my strength and lost my nightmares.  Then I entered on my find.

Thence I ran my first rough survey -- chose my trees and blazed and ringed 'em --
  Week by week I pried and sampled -- week by week my findings grew.
Saul he went to look for donkeys, and by God he found a kingdom!
  But by God, who sent His Whisper, I had struck the worth of two!

Up along the hostile mountains, where the hair-poised snowslide shivers --
  Down and through the big fat marshes that the virgin ore-bed stains,
Till I heard the mile-wide mutterings of unimagined rivers,
  And beyond the nameless timber saw illimitable plains!

'Plotted sites of future cities, traced the easy grades between 'em;
  Watched unharnessed rapids wasting fifty thousand head an hour;
Counted leagues of water-frontage through the axe-ripe woods that screen 'em --
  Saw the plant to feed a people -- up and waiting for the power!

Well, I know who'll take the credit -- all the clever chaps that followed --
  Came, a dozen men together -- never knew my desert-fears;
Tracked me by the camps I'd quitted, used the water-holes I hollowed.
  They'll go back and do the talking. They'll be called the Pioneers!

They will find my sites of townships -- not the cities that I set there.
  They will rediscover rivers -- not my rivers heard at night.
By my own old marks and bearings they will show me how to get there,
  By the lonely cairns I builded they will guide my feet aright.

Have I named one single river? Have I claimed one single acre?
  Have I kept one single nugget -- (barring samples)? No, not I!
Because my price was paid me ten times over by my Maker.
  But you wouldn't understand it. You go up and occupy.

Ores you'll find there; wood and cattle; water-transit sure and steady
  (That should keep the railway rates down), coal and iron at your doors.
God took care to hide that country till He judged His people ready,
  Then He chose me for His Whisper, and I've found it, and it's yours!

Yes, your "Never-never country" -- yes, your "edge of cultivation"
  And "no sense in going further" -- till I crossed the range to see.
God forgive me! No, I didn't. It's God's present to our nation.
 Anybody might have found it, but -- His Whisper came to Me!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Hammerclaw

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

It does thank you, hun. I knew I would get an articulate well thought out post that is why I specifically addressed you. 

Thanks Sheri. It's always a worry that I'll sound credulous, but we should get @Sir Wearer of Hats to comment, he always manages to describe our relationship with our government very well

 

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

Hmmm, interesting that you have been told by posters that they fear our government, therefore, need to bear arms, Well we do have all sorts here. 

It was And Thens anti government comment that made me make the initial quip. I see a heck of a lot of that in the US sections of the forum. There are a great many posters there who seem to have a very anti government sentiments. 

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

Well it sounds like I would get along well in Australia, I have no interest in political issues beyond elections and think it is a circus show for the most part. 

You would love Australia, and Australia would love you. You would fit right in on the Gold Coast. A house on Hedges Avenue in Mermaid Beach would be perfect for your tastes but they can get expensive on that street

Its right on the beach, your backyard would be on the beach itself. 

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

When the time comes I read up on the issues, cast my vote, call it a day.

Even more reason  you would really fit in here. 

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

I think your position on guns is a good one by the way, 

Thank you, I just hate hearing about the mass killings, it really rips at the heartstrings. 

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

Thank you for your thoughts.

My pleasure, happy to help. 

[psyche101]

23 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

But that's only because you refuse to buy astronaut boots. 

 

 

You need magnetic ones, remember everything is upside down here.

[psyche101]

47 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

Technology is based on the laws of nature, physics, chemistry, biology, etc. that impose constraints on what is technologically possible. 

I think it's just wild speculation too. In the 1940s popular mechanics thought 2012 would look like this

[psyche101]

55 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

In my opinion though, we're far from being ready for world government. 

 

 

Remember Reagans speech containing a hypothetical threat from space? 

He liked the idea too. But like Sheri says, not happening anytime soon. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by psyche101

[psyche101]

2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

You've only a gaggle of States--we have fifty. It's a miracle voting here works as well as it does.

We considered incorporating New Zealand and PNG as states of Australia at different times

 

[+Hammerclaw]

25 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

We considered incorporating New Zealand and PNG as states of Australia at different times

 

I grew up with an Encyclopedia Britannica for children, British edition circa 1900 hundred. I spent hundreds of wide-eyed hours reading it and fell in love with the World State your country is a fragment of. That and the Beatles made me an Anglophile for life. I know how close your relationship with the Land of the Long White Cloud is.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Hammerclaw

[psyche101]

13 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

I grew up with an Encyclopedia Britannica for children, British edition circa 1900 hundred. I spent hundreds of wide-eyed hours reading it and fell in love with the World State your country is a fragment of. That and the Beatles made me an Anglophile for life. I know how close your relationship with the Land of the Long White Cloud is.

Was the world book for me. I hope to see NASA one day. 

You will enjoy this video I suspect

 

[Golden Duck]

49 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

We considered incorporating New Zealand and PNG as states of Australia at different times

 

There is provision for New Zealand to become a state in The Constitution. 

[psyche101]

15 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

There is provision for New Zealand to become a state in The Constitution. 

LOL see, I didnt know that

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

I think it's just wild speculation too. In the 1940s popular mechanics thought 2012 would look like this

lol They got it almost perfect.

No flying cars and the electronic devices are more compact but everything else you could see in a city of  today  but more so.

( All those electronic and holographic advertising displays we have but weren't included in this picture.

Decades ago when i visited Sydney it had a an overhead monorail and a moving pedestrian conveyor belt.   We went to the top of a building like those in the picture and my wife lost a cashmere cardigan which blew away in the wind and floated down over the Sydney CBD.

  While the vtol aircraft are not so common in the cbd, helicopters certainly are,  and there are many versions of vtol aircraft  in existence

Trackies, miniskirts, and hoodies are a bit of a fashion mish mash, but  all have come, and some have gone, since  the 1940s