psyche101 Posted August 13, 2018 #201 Share Posted August 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, and then said: Maybe the nuclear winter will be offset by ACC? I agree that humanity is a tough species but I also think in terms of more than just survival, when everything good that we've built is destroyed. Who'd want to survive THAT? It would be a world totally without rule of law and be back to survival of the fittest, with people doing unimaginable things to survive. There would be physical survivors but to what purpose? Its just what we do. In the face of adversity we are at our strongest, just like any animal backed into a corner. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted August 13, 2018 #202 Share Posted August 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, psyche101 said: Its just what we do. In the face of adversity we are at our strongest, just like any animal backed into a corner. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted August 13, 2018 #203 Share Posted August 13, 2018 1 hour ago, psyche101 said: Have you noticed the era of those ads? I think that might more be the point Those ads are quite recent. The latest news about those who may live with Fallout predicts those that act without train will themselves become the target. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted August 13, 2018 #204 Share Posted August 13, 2018 The ads are from the Fallout video games, a sort of retrofuture based on past conceptualizations of a nuclear Armageddon and post apocalyptic future. Not to be taken serious, the games are set in a sort of alternate reality, heavily laced with irony and fantasy elements. Vintage early nuclear age archetypes from the Fifties woven into a RPG open-world game, where the player is a lone survivor, newly emerged from a vault, making their way across the shattered country, 200 years after the bombs fell. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted August 13, 2018 #205 Share Posted August 13, 2018 2 hours ago, psyche101 said: Its just what we do. In the face of adversity we are at our strongest, just like any animal backed into a corner. It's really no different than getting a flat tire in the middle of no where. You just do what you have to do to keep on keeping on. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted August 13, 2018 #206 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Speaking of games about the end of the world, Far Cry 5 ends with the USA being nuked, the main antagonistic is also a psychopathic leader of a doomsday cult. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Greenman Posted August 13, 2018 #207 Share Posted August 13, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, and then said: I couldn't care less what the old burnout thinks or says about the president. My problem with him is his rabid hatred of the state of Israel. It's almost maniacal. He isn't anti semitic, he is anti apartheid. I agree with him, the Palestinian people are native to that land, it should have never been divided in the first place. Quote November 1947 The General Assembly of the United Nations recommended the partition of British-mandate Palestine into two separate states, one for Jews and one for Arabs. Fighting breaks out soon thereafter, as all the surrounding Arab states rejected the partition plan. Zionist leaders accepted the proposed partition for tactical and strategic reasons. Palestinians considered the proposal unrepresentative of the demographic distribution of Jews and Arabs living in Palestine at that time, and so rejected it. 1948 In May, Zionist leaders proclaimed the state of Israel. Fighting breaks out between the newly declared state of Israel and its Arab neighbors as British troops are leaving the country. The war is known by Israelis as the “Milhemet Haatzma’ut,” or “War of Independence” by Israelis. Some 700,000 Palestinians leave what had been British-mandate Palestine. Israel gains control over large tracts of land, including some five hundred Palestinian villages. The war is known as “al-Nakbah” or “the Catastrophe,” by Palestinians. Some 700,000 Palestinians flee or are driven from what had been British-mandate Palestine. Israel annexes large tracts of land and destroys some five hundred Palestinian villages. https://pov-tc.pbs.org/pov/downloads/2001/pov-promises-timeline.pdf Blue is the Israeli side of the story, orange is the Palestinians side. This is Waters opinion and I agree with him. I am opposed to apartheid, too. He doesn't talk like a burn out to me. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/roger-waters-pink-floyd-israel-boycott-ban-palestine-a6884971.html Edited August 13, 2018 by Grandpa Greenman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted August 15, 2018 #208 Share Posted August 15, 2018 On 06/08/2018 at 4:11 PM, psyche101 said: You are in fantasy land. Nothing alike at all. lol well Queensland is still 100 years behind the rest of the nation Nah sorry. You've caught up a bit, make that 50 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted August 15, 2018 #209 Share Posted August 15, 2018 On 08/08/2018 at 10:25 AM, Harte said: You have a problem of scale. Even with instantaneous travel, to explore half the galaxy would take 1400 years, if I remember the results of my calculations a few years ago. And that's spending only a few seconds in each solar system. Harte How long do you think it would have taken to explore the whole earth if you had to do it on foot ? It will certainly take a lot more than 1400 years to explore the galaxy, but that s not really the point. Humans could survive for millions of years and spend q lot of that time expanding, exploring, and colonising My guess is that in 1400 years we will have self sustaining colonies on a number of known Goldilocks planets using sub light exploration At about 10 percent of light sped we could get to a number of planets in a century or two of travel. However in tha t time we might have found ways to get around light speed by bending space, or other methods including mater transmission. If matter transmission is developed and was limited to light speed we could get to a number of planets in much less than a century, once receiver systems had been established If we can transmit faster than light using a form of quantum entanglement then it would be instantaneous . Go back to the science and technology of 600 AD and compare it with today's. Now look forward 1400 years. Human science and technology will be as unrecognisable to us now, as ours would be to a person from the 600s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted August 15, 2018 #210 Share Posted August 15, 2018 On 12/08/2018 at 9:53 PM, Horta said: No such thing in any genuine sense. Certainly not in the religious sense, it's a fantasy. The "self" that we like to ascribe free will to, exists only as an illusion. Ultimately we are biological machines that obey the principles of nature like everything else. Untrue. Cognitive self awareness changes everything, and allows us to develop completely free will and actions, undetermined by either biological imperatives or social conditioning We can simply choose to set both those factors aside. The self is a conscious construct of the mind, created, shaped, and formed, by our will and choices. It is very real, and it is entirely our own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harte Posted August 15, 2018 #211 Share Posted August 15, 2018 29 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: How long do you think it would have taken to explore the whole earth if you had to do it on foot ? It will certainly take a lot more than 1400 years to explore the galaxy, but that s not really the point. Humans could survive for millions of years and spend q lot of that time expanding, exploring, and colonising My guess is that in 1400 years we will have self sustaining colonies on a number of known Goldilocks planets using sub light exploration At about 10 percent of light sped we could get to a number of planets in a century or two of travel. However in tha t time we might have found ways to get around light speed by bending space, or other methods including mater transmission. If matter transmission is developed and was limited to light speed we could get to a number of planets in much less than a century, once receiver systems had been established If we can transmit faster than light using a form of quantum entanglement then it would be instantaneous . Go back to the science and technology of 600 AD and compare it with today's. Now look forward 1400 years. Human science and technology will be as unrecognisable to us now, as ours would be to a person from the 600s Do you understand the term "instantaneous?" Do you realize I was responding to a post about exploring the entire galaxy? The 1400 years is the time spent AT other solar systems, not the travel time. 5 seconds at each system (one-half of the systems in the galaxy) would take 1400 years. Of course, that's for one ship. More ships would reduce the time. Harte 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danydandan Posted August 15, 2018 #212 Share Posted August 15, 2018 43 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: How long do you think it would have taken to explore the whole earth if you had to do it on foot ? It will certainly take a lot more than 1400 years to explore the galaxy, but that s not really the point. Humans could survive for millions of years and spend q lot of that time expanding, exploring, and colonising My guess is that in 1400 years we will have self sustaining colonies on a number of known Goldilocks planets using sub light exploration At about 10 percent of light sped we could get to a number of planets in a century or two of travel. However in tha t time we might have found ways to get around light speed by bending space, or other methods including mater transmission. If matter transmission is developed and was limited to light speed we could get to a number of planets in much less than a century, once receiver systems had been established If we can transmit faster than light using a form of quantum entanglement then it would be instantaneous . Go back to the science and technology of 600 AD and compare it with today's. Now look forward 1400 years. Human science and technology will be as unrecognisable to us now, as ours would be to a person from the 600s We have been over this before, quantum entanglement FTL is impossible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted August 15, 2018 #213 Share Posted August 15, 2018 Just now, danydandan said: We have been over this before, quantum entanglement FTL is impossible. Nothing is impossible. Something is only impossible given current physics and technology. But we know from history that these change as our knowledge and understanding develops .eg 200 years ago it was impossible to get from Europe to Australia in 24 hours, and even the concept of it was impossible, because there was not a hint of any technology which would allow it to happen and anyone would have laughed at the idea. Today it is quite possible. However, I qualified my comments by pointing out that even if it was ONLY at light speed, matter transmission to the nearest Goldilocks planet would take 12 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted August 15, 2018 #214 Share Posted August 15, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Harte said: Do you understand the term "instantaneous?" Do you realize I was responding to a post about exploring the entire galaxy? The 1400 years is the time spent AT other solar systems, not the travel time. 5 seconds at each system (one-half of the systems in the galaxy) would take 1400 years. Of course, that's for one ship. More ships would reduce the time. Harte yep i understood all that, hence my post I agreed that, even with instantaneous travel, you could not explore the galaxy in 1400 years but you could have colonies on several nearby habitable planets. You could easily have terra formed mars and have multiple artificial and sustainable colonies on ring worlds or Dyson spheres travelling through space. it s quite possible that humans might have colonised out several hundred light years from earth along the spiral arm by then. it depends on just how rapidly, and in what direction, human science and technology advances. !400 years is a short time in human history but an incredibly long time in terms of scientific and technological advancement You could have self sufficient colonies on mobile asteroids with propulsion units Given enough time humans COULD explore the galaxy and build wormholes etc for rapid transit to other galaxies When (European) humans first sailed the pacific the y did not stop at every island. That came much later. The y went from point to point, only stopping at places of interest, or with needed resources. Edited August 15, 2018 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harte Posted August 15, 2018 #215 Share Posted August 15, 2018 24 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: Nothing is impossible. Something is only impossible given current physics and technology. But we know from history that these change as our knowledge and understanding develops .eg 200 years ago it was impossible to get from Europe to Australia in 24 hours, and even the concept of it was impossible, because there was not a hint of any technology which would allow it to happen and anyone would have laughed at the idea. Today it is quite possible. Modern travel does not violate any principle of physics so your analogy falls flat. Entanglement can't even be used to transmit information. Modern experiments with this transmit nothing. They merely resolve a distant particle (which is already there) into a particular quantum state. 24 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: However, I qualified my comments by pointing out that even if it was ONLY at light speed, matter transmission to the nearest Goldilocks planet would take 12 years Consider the time dilation effects. Harte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted August 15, 2018 #216 Share Posted August 15, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Harte said: Modern travel does not violate any principle of physics so your analogy falls flat. Entanglement can't even be used to transmit information. Modern experiments with this transmit nothing. They merely resolve a distant particle (which is already there) into a particular quantum state. Consider the time dilation effects. Harte lol modern travel violates the laws of physics as understood by humans of that time. heck scientists once believed that travelling faster than horseback would kill a human being, due to the shock of such speed affecting the human anatomy. and what if you could break a human being down into every single piece of its quantum parts and then entangle all those parts across space recreating a new human in the receiver Matter transmission is a scientific certainty (given human survival ) We will be transmitting inanimate objects within 50 years and humans within this century. However i agree tha t, given present science, instantaneous transmission is not possible But tha t is my point. Present science will be ancient science in 100 years time, let alone 1000 Not sure how time dilation would affect non linear travel or transmission. However at 10% of light speed the trip would take 120 years And i think time dilation would be negligible. For colonisation purposes time dilation wouldn't matter much. Say 100 years passed on earth while oyu travelled to the nearest planet . It would only take you 12 years of your time Basically it just means saying good bye to your home etc., as people once did who travelled across the world and settled america. or australia I read somewhere that if you could actually travel at the speed of light, time would seem to stop for you until you ceased moving Edited August 15, 2018 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted August 15, 2018 #217 Share Posted August 15, 2018 On 8/7/2018 at 4:50 PM, White Crane Feather said: I agree. We have the technology to colonize other planets, it just has to be commitment much like the Manhattan project. The thing with colonizing other planets is that we will also be able to create the artificial environments necessary to survive the mentioned catastrophes right here in earth. That alone is a worthy cause. 1. We don't even have the technology to step foot on another planet much less colonize one.. If we did..we would not be working on said technology now would we. Did anyone say..we have the technology to light the entire world...before Edison actually perfected the light bulb? No. They did not. 2. Science fiction should be left on the movie screen when discussing reality. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted August 15, 2018 #218 Share Posted August 15, 2018 On 8/2/2018 at 6:56 AM, and then said: Political and governmental systems have ALWAYS trended towards tyranny. ALWAYS. It's the expression of human nature within a human institution. One of our greatest failings as a species is that too many of us cling to the illusion that because things are "okay" today, they will be okay tomorrow. I'm not sure how closely non-Americans are watching our little drama just now but there are tectonic displacements of trust and values going on over here right now. If, after all the disclosures of the activities of the Clintons, Obama and now agents of the deep state within our security organs, no one is significantly held to account and deep, pervasive changes in our FISA system don't occur, we are essentially done. If they get away with what they've done to Trump we will never have another trustworthy election. When ballots become useless they are replaced with bullets. What's interesting is that while you're opining about the Clintons, our courts are being redesigned for years to come, with people dedicated to killing civil rights and protections. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted August 15, 2018 Author #219 Share Posted August 15, 2018 2 hours ago, GlitterRose said: What's interesting is that while you're opining about the Clintons, our courts are being redesigned for years to come, with people dedicated to killing civil rights and protections. That's all you took from my statement? Which civil rights are the Trump administration gunning for? As to the courts, I will agree that they have become FAR too politicized but that's a thing on both sides and it is becoming dangerous as well. A nation that is based on law rather than man is in deep trouble when there is a multi-tiered legal standard based on money and politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted August 15, 2018 #220 Share Posted August 15, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, and then said: That's all you took from my statement? Which civil rights are the Trump administration gunning for? As to the courts, I will agree that they have become FAR too politicized but that's a thing on both sides and it is becoming dangerous as well. A nation that is based on law rather than man is in deep trouble when there is a multi-tiered legal standard based on money and politics. “These are not mainstream jurists being nominated because they are legal luminaries, but people who are coming to the bench with clear ideological-driven missions of eroding constitutional rights and legal protections,” said Daniel Goldberg, legal director for the Alliance for Justice, a liberal group focused on judicial issues. https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/with-little-fanfare-trump-and-mcconnell-reshape-the-nations-circuit-courts/2018/08/14/10610028-9fcd-11e8-93e3-24d1703d2a7a_story.html Edited August 15, 2018 by GlitterRose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted August 15, 2018 #221 Share Posted August 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, and then said: That's all you took from my statement? Which civil rights are the Trump administration gunning for? As to the courts, I will agree that they have become FAR too politicized but that's a thing on both sides and it is becoming dangerous as well. A nation that is based on law rather than man is in deep trouble when there is a multi-tiered legal standard based on money and politics. You think someone like Trump is going to want money out of politics? Of course we are a nation of laws, and we don't rely on one man to make all our decisions. It should be that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted August 15, 2018 Author #222 Share Posted August 15, 2018 On 8/13/2018 at 3:17 PM, Grandpa Greenman said: He isn't anti semitic, he is anti apartheid. I agree with him, the Palestinian people are native to that land, it should have never been divided in the first place. There are many situations in the history of our world that are like this. Conquest of the land of others has been a thing since people settled onto certain pieces of land and called them their own. Are there other windmills you like to tilt at or is this one special for any specific reason? And I've heard this refrain many times before. They aren't antiSemitic or haters, they are noble fighters of Zionism or the even more laughable - apartheid. I don't know if you grew up n the South or not but real, imposed, separation of races was a thing in my early childhood here. It was an ugly, demeaning thing for everyone involved but had very real consequences for black folk. Palestinians can vote, shop, dine, attend schools in Israel just like a Sabra. They have Knesset seats. Whatever injustice exists in the treatment of Palestinians, it ISN'T about "separateness". The controls that were put into place over their movement was a response to the willful slaughter of Israelis for the crime of being Israelis. Had the same thing happened in China, Russia, India or even America, the result would have been the removal of the group that was resorting to violence. I suppose you'd willingly allow a group of Creek, Choctaw or Apalachee to regularly attempt to kill you or those you love because they were displaced? Kid yourself if you like but this is about Jews being in a position of power and the world can't stand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted August 15, 2018 Author #223 Share Posted August 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, GlitterRose said: You think someone like Trump is going to want money out of politics? Of course we are a nation of laws, and we don't rely on one man to make all our decisions. It should be that way. You either are so blind in Party bias or you're sufficiently ignorant of the Constitution that what the Ninth Circuit did last year doesn't bother you at all. If it's about taking down the hated enemy, you're onboard, no problem. You guys really need to wake up and start thinking about the fact that the whole other HALF of this nation disagree with you and eventually you/we WILL relearn to compromise or our little experiment in freedom will fail on our watch. That'd be quite a legacy for our children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted August 15, 2018 #224 Share Posted August 15, 2018 Just now, and then said: You either are so blind in Party bias or you're sufficiently ignorant of the Constitution that what the Ninth Circuit did last year doesn't bother you at all. If it's about taking down the hated enemy, you're onboard, no problem. You guys really need to wake up and start thinking about the fact that the whole other HALF of this nation disagree with you and eventually you/we WILL relearn to compromise or our little experiment in freedom will fail on our watch. That'd be quite a legacy for our children. They're going after everything, and if you don't think that will include your guns, then I think you're sadly mistaken. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted August 15, 2018 #225 Share Posted August 15, 2018 The thing of it is...they don't need most of us...and they know it. The powers that be are also well aware of the coming climate Armageddon, and they're pretty indifferent. The true haves will be in their bunkers with plenty of everything, and the rest of us will be out here drowning and burning. And it won't matter anymore what people call themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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