Eldorado Posted July 30, 2018 #1 Share Posted July 30, 2018 "Dr David Hodges is a GP in the centre of Stockton, where the life expectancy for a man is 64. That's the same as Ethiopia. "It's a disgrace. We need to be fixing this. People have the right to get to retirement age healthy. I will accept chronic illnesses, starting in your 60s, I don't accept as a society that we should be expecting people to be unwell in their 40s."" -- "Prof Clare Bambra, from Newcastle University, led a five-year study into health inequality in Stockton. She says there are many factors, but the main one is income. "The poor are dying younger because they have less money in order to live a healthy life. They have more pressures on them, they have more insecurity and they have less control over their life." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44985650 There's an interactive life-expectancy chart at the above link for folk to check-out their home town. (Last week, the BBC were telling us folks are getting smarter. Looks like they only meant their own.) 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 30, 2018 #2 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Considering what we know about the effects poverty has on the brain, poor education has on food choices and stress has on the body IDK that any level of medical care is going to extend the lives of the poor much beyond where we are now. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essan Posted July 30, 2018 #3 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Hmmm, looking at that chart, I can live 3 years longer by moving to the other side of the river Perhaps it's cos I'd then have to walk a bit further to get to work every day? Seriously though, I would question those results when there's such a big discrepency within a small market town. But I am guessing that with such small population groups it only takes a handful of exceptions to skew the data. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldrover Posted July 30, 2018 #4 Share Posted July 30, 2018 What I see these days there's a strong correlation between lifestyles and education, and a big discrepancy between the groups, possibly more notable in the younger group, but then if the older group carried on like some of the youngsters they wouldn't be available for comparison. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted July 30, 2018 #5 Share Posted July 30, 2018 When does ones own responsibility come into it? Being poor doesn't mean you have to be unhealthy. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted July 30, 2018 #6 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Hate to say it, but this is normal. Poor people die earlier the world around. Even here in the US the life expectancy varies by up to 20 years: https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/may/08/life-expectancy-gap-rich-poor-us-regions-more-than-20-years The poor people tend to work physically demanding manual labor jobs, tend to eat cheap unhealthy food, tend not to be able to take time off from work to go to the hospital or recuperate and tend not to be educated as what they need to do to stay healthy at all. 39 minutes ago, stevewinn said: When does ones own responsibility come into it? Being poor doesn't mean you have to be unhealthy. I think unhealthiness is a trait of being poor. Being poor does indeed mean you have to be unhealthy. The few people with the "personal responsibility" and discipline to stay healthy generally have the traits needed to claw their way to middle class. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted July 30, 2018 #7 Share Posted July 30, 2018 4 hours ago, Eldorado said: "Dr David Hodges is a GP in the centre of Stockton, where the life expectancy for a man is 64. That's the same as Ethiopia. "It's a disgrace. We need to be fixing this. People have the right to get to retirement age healthy. I will accept chronic illnesses, starting in your 60s, I don't accept as a society that we should be expecting people to be unwell in their 40s." Ah, home sweet home. We always make the news for the best reasons... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted July 30, 2018 #8 Share Posted July 30, 2018 47 minutes ago, seanjo said: Drugs, alcohol and McDonald's...please don't have a go at me I know of what I speak, I'm from the NE of England and you see it all of the time on the sink estates... it's not (any) government's fault or the health service, it's people not giving a toss about their own health...fresh veg is cheap as chips in supermarkets. Yes, clearly only poor people do those. Oh wait...that's right. Rich people do them, too. They can just afford rehab and medicine. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted July 30, 2018 #9 Share Posted July 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, seanjo said: Rich and middle-class people are more likely to live healthily. Poor people are poor for a reason. Rich people can afford to live healthily, but that doesn't mean they will. They'll just be able to afford to patch themselves up when they don't. People like to think that the poor are deserving of it, and the rich are deserving of it. That's just not always the case. Sometimes it's just what you're born into. One group has a safety net, and the other doesn't. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted July 30, 2018 #10 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) I've known some very well off families, and I can tell you... they have just as many problems as poor families do. Maybe even more. That said, they can afford to keep it quiet and they can afford to take care of family members who get into trouble with drugs or alcohol. (or even the law, for that matter) They can afford a suitcase full of medicine for the family member who can't stay away from burgers and fries. Edited July 30, 2018 by ChaosRose 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted July 30, 2018 #11 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) If you want to hate on the poor, seanjo, I can't stop you. But I can tell you that rich families are not nobler or morally superior. They're just rich. Edited July 30, 2018 by ChaosRose 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted July 30, 2018 #12 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 minute ago, seanjo said: I am the poor you muppet! Don't be self-hating, then. Rich people aren't better than you. They just have more money. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Caspian Hare Posted July 30, 2018 #13 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Part of this is just a function of intelligence. Income is generally correlated with IQ as are better life decisions in general. Take obesity for example. Obesity has become a "disease of affluence" affecting richer countries, although when you look closer it's more complicated than that, and obesity manifests differently across demographic groups. But it's still broadly true that, paradoxical as it might seem to our ancestors, the rich are fitter now and the poor are fatter. I know wealthy people who spend incredible amounts of time working sedentary jobs, but being smart they have the presence of mind to make time for exercise are careful about their diets. Poor people can easily succumb to the temptation to just buy some fast food instead of cooking (wide availability of cheap, high-calorie, low-nutrient food.) This is compounded with poor life decisions like excessive alcohol or tobacco use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted July 30, 2018 #14 Share Posted July 30, 2018 In general, I'd agree that people should make the smart decision to cook fresh and save money while being healthier. The only response I can think of to that is that sometimes poorer people have to work extra hours to make ends meet which doesn't leave much time for shopping and cooking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted July 30, 2018 #15 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) it has everything to do with making right choices, it is those choices that make you poor, sick , and die early, not anything else. Edited July 30, 2018 by aztek 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspie_Dwarf Posted July 30, 2018 #16 Share Posted July 30, 2018 17 minutes ago, aztek said: it has everything to do with making right choices, it is those choices that make you poor, sick , and die early, not anything else. Yeah, because people CHOSE to be born to poor parents. People CHOSE to be born in areas with high unemployment. People CHOSE to be born in areas with poor educational establishments. People CHOSE to be born into deprivation. What a nonsensical world view you have. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted July 30, 2018 #17 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) Just now, Waspie_Dwarf said: Yeah, because people CHOSE to be born to poor parents. no but they chose to stay poor, poor parents does not mean you can't be more successful, unless you are lazy loser, than blame yourself, not parents Quote People CHOSE to be born in areas with high unemployment no, but they chose to use it as excuse, does not matter where you are born, you are not anchored there, make right choices and you will get a job Quote People CHOSE to be born in areas with poor educational establishments. lol, another poor excuse, you are free to attend any college you want, and become anyone you want, that is called making right choice. Quote People CHOSE to be born into deprivation. no, but they chose to stay there and make up excuses, like you just did, do not make excuses, make right choices And your life will be what you want it ti be. that is very realistic view, yours otoh, is nothing but excuses, and complete dismissal of personal responsibility . Edited July 30, 2018 by aztek 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspie_Dwarf Posted July 30, 2018 #18 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Just now, aztek said: that is very realistic view, yours otoh, is nothing but excuses, and complete dismissal of personal responsibility . Your view is total and utter nonsense. It's just blaming other people so you don't have to take any kind of social responsibility. Money is what gives people the chances to do the things you say. Money is what gives you choices. If you are born into poverty how are you supposed to be able to move to a better area? Your view puts the cart before the horse. It lacks any kind of understand of exactly what a poverty trap is. Poverty is not a choice, ignorance is. Make the right life choices. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted July 30, 2018 #19 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) Just now, Waspie_Dwarf said: Your view is total and utter nonsense. It's just blaming other people so you don't have to take any kind of social responsibility. i blame people so i do not have to take social responsibility ??????????, for what? for their lives and their poor choices? how is it my responsibility to begin with? i'm not socially responsible for your poor choices, you are. what a effed up way to see world. Edited July 30, 2018 by aztek 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted July 30, 2018 #20 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, aztek said: lol, another poor excuse, you are free to attend any college you want, and become anyone you want, that is called making right choice. Just on this one, in the UK, you have to have specific grades from high school to get into college. You can only attend the high school in your catchment area (where you live). Better schools mean house prices rise so generally, poorer families can't move to get into a better school. Even if they make it to college, most students have to rely on parental support to some extent, which poorer families can't provide. So there is some truth to the idea that poor families can't get the education they need to stop being poor. That said, I have no patience or sympathy for those who just prat around at school. It might be a bad school but you can still try and make the best of it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted July 30, 2018 #21 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) Just now, Setton said: Just on this one, in the UK, you have to have specific grades from high school to get into college. yea, so study and get good grades, maybe even scholarship, that means not hang out with wrong people, not drink or do drugs, not do stupid things, not get arrested, not have criminal record, and not throw your life away, that is called decision making. Edited July 30, 2018 by aztek 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Area Posted July 30, 2018 #22 Share Posted July 30, 2018 3 hours ago, seanjo said: Poor people can afford to live healthily, as I said fresh veg in supermarkets is cheaper than a McDonalds and you get more than one meal out of it. They just choose to shove crap into their mouths and bodies. So do I by the way, but it's my fault, not anybody else's. Not quite as simple as that though. I will admit that I was at first tempted to agree with you. The poor are much more likely to work long hours have tough menial jobs, coming home and cooking a healthy family meal day in day out is enough to drive even the most devoted health buff insane. Add into this the education needed to cook healthy food, and the pressure, particularly on single parents to ensure children are eating at all, and then the fact that most young people will be having school lunches, so the responsibility has to be shared with those who provide care for our children as well. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted July 30, 2018 #23 Share Posted July 30, 2018 24 minutes ago, aztek said: yea, so study and get good grades, maybe even scholarship, that means not hang out with wrong people, not drink or do drugs, not do stupid things, not get arrested, not have criminal record, and not throw your life away, that is called decision making. Agree with all this in principle (although scholarships are almost non existent in the UK). Just making the point that the odds can be very much stacked against poorer families. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted July 30, 2018 #24 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) Just now, Setton said: Just making the point that the odds can be very much stacked against poorer families. they are when you convinced yourself it is so. i've seen plenty of rich kids fail in life, just as i've seen many poor go very far. your parents money have little to do with it,. i'm sure i can list quite a few millionaires who came from poor families, https://blog.adioma.com/how-much-sweat-it-takes-from-zero-to-billionaire-infographic/ Edited July 30, 2018 by aztek 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Area Posted July 30, 2018 #25 Share Posted July 30, 2018 22 minutes ago, aztek said: they are when you convinced yourself it is so. i've seen plenty of rich kids fail in life, just as i've seen many poor go very far. your parents money have little to do with it,. i'm sure i can list quite a few millionaires who came from poor families, https://blog.adioma.com/how-much-sweat-it-takes-from-zero-to-billionaire-infographic/ 8 people are on that list from a total of over 70. I don’t think anyone is arguing it is impossible to be successful with a disadvantaged background, but if your linked information is representative only 1 in 10 make it. Not a great stat. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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