aztek Posted July 30, 2018 #26 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) Just now, Grey Area said: 8 people are on that list from a total of over 70. I don’t think anyone is arguing it is impossible to be successful with a disadvantaged background, but if your linked information is representative only 1 in 10 make it. Not a great stat. those 8 represent billionaires who started with nothing, it is far fewer than 1 in 10 in regards to population, but it is not about being a billionaire, it is about making it in life. and that does not take billions. 99.9% of people who made it, and live comfortably, are not billionaires, not even millionaires, nor you have to have rich parents. it may not even help in all cases. Edited July 30, 2018 by aztek 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted July 30, 2018 #27 Share Posted July 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Waspie_Dwarf said: Your view is total and utter nonsense. It's just blaming other people so you don't have to take any kind of social responsibility. Money is what gives people the chances to do the things you say. Money is what gives you choices. If you are born into poverty how are you supposed to be able to move to a better area? Your view puts the cart before the horse. It lacks any kind of understand of exactly what a poverty trap is. Poverty is not a choice, ignorance is. Make the right life choices. Good old socialist views. Money money money. Heres a novel idea they want money get a job. Our social responsibility started at their birth via the NHS, then that responsibility runs for 16 years it should then end at the school gates when they finally complete their state/tax payer funded eduction from then on in its personal responsibility. - but it doesn't, does it. We have a safety net in the form of unemployment benefits. And if they are unfortunate to suffer from disease and unable to work through no fault of their own we are there again with disability benefits. It's really not to much to ask that if your able bodied to play your part in society, and that means taking personal responsibility. Dont like where you live then move, don't like your job get another one, no excuse to let yourself down by becoming ill by waiting around for years on end waiting for the nanny state/Govt to do something about it, it's no use bemoaning the system. Do something about it. If one is not happy with their lot in life - this is what you do, get finger of bum hole and do something about it, plenty of jobs, 380,000 migrants arrive every year so jobs out there. And the military is a great option / escape route. Or are you one of those cradle to grave types the socialist parties love. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted July 30, 2018 #28 Share Posted July 30, 2018 why get a job, work, pay taxes, when you can blame society and demand those who work pay for you. claiming it is somehow not fair they are better off 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted July 30, 2018 #29 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) This is on BBC one now. Get rich or die young. Panorama https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcone Edited July 30, 2018 by stevewinn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted July 30, 2018 #30 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, aztek said: they are when you convinced yourself it is so. i've seen plenty of rich kids fail in life, just as i've seen many poor go very far. your parents money have little to do with it,. i'm sure i can list quite a few millionaires who came from poor families, https://blog.adioma.com/how-much-sweat-it-takes-from-zero-to-billionaire-infographic/ Again, you are bit in our education system. Where you live and go to school has a big impact in this country. I'm not saying poor people can't succeed, just that it is harder for them than kids from rich families. We're actually in agreement on most of this but you don't seem able to accept that. Although I do understand it's a bizarre occurrence 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted July 30, 2018 #31 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) Just now, Setton said: I'm not saying poor people can't succeed, just that it is harder for them than kids from rich families. ok, and whose fault is it? kids with rich families? if they want to blame someone, they can blame their parents for being poor, i see immigrants here come with nothing, and decade or less later, have pretty much everything, and i see Americans who achieved nothing and all they do blame those immigrants, you will never convince me you are poor because of anything but yourself. the thread is about England's poor dying early due to health reasons, the author says the main reason is income, but why? don't you have free medical system? Edited July 30, 2018 by aztek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted July 30, 2018 #32 Share Posted July 30, 2018 6 hours ago, ChaosRose said: They can just afford rehab and medicine. The poor get free 'medicine' in the UK? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted July 30, 2018 #33 Share Posted July 30, 2018 2 hours ago, aztek said: ok, and whose fault is it? kids with rich families? if they want to blame someone, they can blame their parents for being poor, i see immigrants here come with nothing, and decade or less later, have pretty much everything, and i see Americans who achieved nothing and all they do blame those immigrants, you will never convince me you are poor because of anything but yourself. the thread is about England's poor dying early due to health reasons, the author says the main reason is income, but why? don't you have free medical system? It doesn't have to be anyone's fault. It's just the way it is. The OP is asking if we should do something about it, and if so, what. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldorado Posted July 30, 2018 Author #34 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, hetrodoxly said: The poor get free 'medicine' in the UK? If you're not fussy, "The National Review of Asthma Deaths — the largest single study conducted anywhere in the world into the circumstances surrounding asthma fatalities — examined 195 deaths in the UK. It found failings in 83 per cent of cases with “major avoidable factors” in 66 per cent of them. Nine out of 10 of the deaths of children could potentially have been avoided, the review concluded. Too many GPs were prescribing patients with the wrong medication in an attempt to keep down costs, giving sufferers only the blue “reliever” inhalers but not the brown “preventive” inhalers, which contain low doses of steroids and are prescribed to stop attacks." https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/10809469/Hundreds-of-asthma-deaths-could-be-prevented.html Want to hear about how we treat our old age pensioners? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsnotoutthere Posted July 30, 2018 #35 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, stevewinn said: Good old socialist views. Money money money. Heres a novel idea they want money get a job. Our social responsibility started at their birth via the NHS, then that responsibility runs for 16 years it should then end at the school gates when they finally complete their state/tax payer funded eduction from then on in its personal responsibility. - but it doesn't, does it. We have a safety net in the form of unemployment benefits. And if they are unfortunate to suffer from disease and unable to work through no fault of their own we are there again with disability benefits. It's really not to much to ask that if your able bodied to play your part in society, and that means taking personal responsibility. Dont like where you live then move, don't like your job get another one, no excuse to let yourself down by becoming ill by waiting around for years on end waiting for the nanny state/Govt to do something about it, it's no use bemoaning the system. Do something about it. If one is not happy with their lot in life - this is what you do, get finger of bum hole and do something about it, plenty of jobs, 380,000 migrants arrive every year so jobs out there. And the military is a great option / escape route. Or are you one of those cradle to grave types the socialist parties love. Indeed. I went to school at what they used to call 'a secondary modern comprehensive' Another lad in our street went to the same school, a likable chap, intelligent, in fact at school probably more intelligent than me if truth were told. But he loved a bit of fun during class and made some of the teachers lives a misery. In fact I'm sure one of our teachers had a nervous breakdown because of his antics. I left school with average to below average marks in my GCSEs. Not sure what I wanted to do but used to enjoy tech. drawing, so decided to go to college and do a years graphics course.(free till the age on 18 in those days). I failed most of the final exams, but at the end of the year I had a portfolio of technical drawings. With this under my arm I approach several architectural firms with a view to being trained in the profession. Got a job after the first interview. I've now worked for the past 35 years in the profession, on above average pay and loved every minute. I literally look forward to mondays. I still see the lad I went to school with every week and we have a little chat, then I hand him the £3 for cleaning my windows. Nice chap. Life is all about the choices we make. Edited July 30, 2018 by itsnotoutthere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Area Posted July 30, 2018 #36 Share Posted July 30, 2018 4 hours ago, stevewinn said: Good old socialist views. Money money money. Heres a novel idea they want money get a job. Our social responsibility started at their birth via the NHS, then that responsibility runs for 16 years it should then end at the school gates when they finally complete their state/tax payer funded eduction from then on in its personal responsibility. - but it doesn't, does it. We have a safety net in the form of unemployment benefits. And if they are unfortunate to suffer from disease and unable to work through no fault of their own we are there again with disability benefits. It's really not to much to ask that if your able bodied to play your part in society, and that means taking personal responsibility. Dont like where you live then move, don't like your job get another one, no excuse to let yourself down by becoming ill by waiting around for years on end waiting for the nanny state/Govt to do something about it, it's no use bemoaning the system. Do something about it. If one is not happy with their lot in life - this is what you do, get finger of bum hole and do something about it, plenty of jobs, 380,000 migrants arrive every year so jobs out there. And the military is a great option / escape route. Or are you one of those cradle to grave types the socialist parties love. It must be great living in your black and white world of simple choice. I worked with a single mum of four, who fled domestic abuse and was housed in a really bad area, she couldn’t work as she was home schooling for fear of her ex turning up at the school and taking the children, and she was afraid to let her children out of the house because of the area. But now I know what to do, I’ll pop over to the local recruitment office and give her the forms, why didn’t I think of the forces before? Steve this is the UK, even the far right in this country has a socialist slant, it’s the bedrock of society. Honestly, a lot of what you say makes a great deal of sense, but when it comes to these sorts of issues you just don’t seem to be able to grasp the issues many people face. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted July 31, 2018 #37 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Eldorado said: giving sufferers only the blue “reliever” inhalers but not the brown “preventive” inhalers, which contain low doses of steroids and are prescribed to stop attacks." Were the blue inhalers given just to the poor? Edited July 31, 2018 by hetrodoxly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldorado Posted July 31, 2018 Author #38 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, hetrodoxly said: Were the blue inhalers given just to the poor? Did I say it was only poor asthmatic children we sacrificed (helped to die) in order to save some dough? You said the poor were given "free medicine" and my reply was about the quality of treatment one can expect with the NHS under the Tories. Those kids were deliberately given the wrong medication. To save some bloody money. You wanting to hear about the murdered old age pensioners now? The folk who protected us when we were growing, educated us and made Britain the civilized country it is today. Edited July 31, 2018 by Eldorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted July 31, 2018 #39 Share Posted July 31, 2018 8 hours ago, Grey Area said: It must be great living in your black and white world of simple choice. I worked with a single mum of four, who fled domestic abuse and was housed in a really bad area, she couldn’t work as she was home schooling for fear of her ex turning up at the school and taking the children, and she was afraid to let her children out of the house because of the area. But now I know what to do, I’ll pop over to the local recruitment office and give her the forms, why didn’t I think of the forces before? Steve this is the UK, even the far right in this country has a socialist slant, it’s the bedrock of society. Honestly, a lot of what you say makes a great deal of sense, but when it comes to these sorts of issues you just don’t seem to be able to grasp the issues many people face. It might be because I look at things in how I would deal with the situation myself. No doubt difficulties exists but after a short time evaluating and sorting ones self out you have to strive forwards because guess what it's only the individual and only them that can shape their own future. It seems simplistic and easy for me to say but whats the alternative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted July 31, 2018 #40 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Eldorado said: You wanting to hear about the murdered old age pensioners now? The folk who protected us when we were growing, educated us and made Britain the civilized country it is today. No, thank you...I'll take my private insurance. I can call my doctor with a semi-emergency in the morning, see him the same day and be admitted to the hospital for tests...almost no wait. I barely had time to go back home and get together an overnight bag. I'm not even talking top of the line insurance coverage either. Nowhere near it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldorado Posted July 31, 2018 Author #41 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Michelle said: No, thank you...I'll take my private insurance. I can call my doctor with a semi-emergency in the morning, see him the same day and be admitted to the hospital for tests...almost no wait. I barely had time to go back home and get together an overnight bag. I'm not even talking top of the line insurance coverage either. Nowhere near it. Did you know an estimated 440,000 Americans die due to hospital medical errors every year? https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2016/11/how-to-prevent-440000-yearly-deaths-due-to-medical-errors/ Only saying. Western society needs fixing. Don't know how but am pretty sure it needs fixing. We are in an awful mess. (without our make-up on) Edited July 31, 2018 by Eldorado 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 31, 2018 #42 Share Posted July 31, 2018 20 hours ago, seanjo said: Drugs, alcohol and McDonald's...please don't have a go at me I know of what I speak, I'm from the NE of England and you see it all of the time on the sink estates... it's not (any) government's fault or the health service, it's people not giving a toss about their own health...fresh veg is cheap as chips in supermarkets. Sorry but no you can not eat healthy for the same price as you can eat garbage food. You can buy the ingredients for a salad for the same price you can buy two pizzas at little caesars and the pizzas will provide multiple meals. Same for McDonalds. In a pinch a family of four can have a cheeseburger and fries for 8 bucks. You cannot buy fresh non processed ingredients and create a meal for that much. Sure you can buy 99 cent only store food but when discussing health that crap is as bad for you as mcd's That doesn't even begin to touch on the other factors such as working long hours or multiple jobs etc. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted July 31, 2018 #43 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Eldorado said: Did you know an estimated 440,000 Americans die due to hospital medical errors every year? https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2016/11/how-to-prevent-440000-yearly-deaths-due-to-medical-errors/ Yes, I do. No system is perfect, but it's a far cry from the free clinic I had to wait for two or three days to get into when I first moved away from home. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldorado Posted July 31, 2018 Author #44 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Michelle said: Yes, I do. No system is perfect, but it's a far cry from the free clinic I had to wait for two or three days to get into when I first moved away from home. Those medical errors are the third leading cause of death in America. So you're right when you say it's not perfect. How we going to fix this? Edited July 31, 2018 by Eldorado 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted July 31, 2018 #45 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Eldorado said: Those medical errors are the third leading cause of death in America. So you're right when you say it's not perfect. Not quite the horror stories I've heard about the NHS in UK news. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldorado Posted July 31, 2018 Author #46 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Just now, Michelle said: Not quite the horror stories I've heard about the NHS in UK news. You'll get no disagreement from me on that score. Hope you are you well! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted July 31, 2018 #47 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Eldorado said: You'll get no disagreement from me on that score. Hope you are you well! You as well, dear. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 31, 2018 #48 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, seanjo said: Rubbish. https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/shop/fresh-food/fresh-vegetables/all https://fastfoodprice.co.uk/mcdonalds-prices/ Im pretty confused as to how you think those links disproves my point. A family of four can have full stomachs for 8 bucks or they can have a salad. Further IDK if you guys have little caesers or comparable over there but for just an additional 2 dollars you can purchase two large pizzas. So you can spend 10 bucks on two meals for that family of four or you can spend 10 bucks on one meal of a thick salad. I should back up a little and say that clearly poor education leads to poor decision making all the way around but for the truly poor who are living not just paycheck to paycheck but day to day the choice between being full and not is an easy one. Edited July 31, 2018 by Farmer77 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Caspian Hare Posted July 31, 2018 #49 Share Posted July 31, 2018 It's possible to eat healthy food on the cheap. It takes an investment in time on your part to cook or your meals will be pretty bland, though. Convenience, taste, affordability ... choose two. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.United_Nations Posted July 31, 2018 #50 Share Posted July 31, 2018 21 hours ago, ChaosRose said: Yes, clearly only poor people do those. Oh wait...that's right. Rich people do them, too. They can just afford rehab and medicine. You should come here to the UK. Large women with 8 kids and living on benefits 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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