England's poor still dying young

[Kittens Are Jerks]

There's a gentleman who works in our mail room. He also works at two other jobs. He brings his lunch and dinner (for his night job) every day. Two small containers with whatever bits were left over from his family's dinner the night before.  He doesn't eat poorly due to a lack of education, he eats poorly so that his family can eat well. So that his children can have decent clothes and an education. His once a week date night splurge with his wife is going out for a coffee.

It's easy to judge, easy to tell others what they should be eating, buying or doing. Easy, but also incredibly condescending.

Most people do the best they can to provide for themselves and their families, whatever their circumstances. The gentleman at work may not be living a healthy lifestyle, but his kids are, and that's what matters most to him. Who are we to tell him to buy a sack of potatoes and a bag of rice.

[stevewinn]

3 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

There's a gentleman who works in our mail room. He also works at two other jobs. He brings his lunch and dinner (for his night job) every day. Two small containers with whatever bits were left over from his family's dinner the night before.  He doesn't eat poorly due to a lack of education, he eats poorly so that his family can eat well. So that his children can have decent clothes and an education. His once a week date night splurge with his wife is going out for a coffee.

It's easy to judge, easy to tell others what they should be eating, buying or doing. Easy, but also incredibly condescending.

Most people do the best they can to provide for themselves and their families, whatever their circumstances. The gentleman at work may not be living a healthy lifestyle, but his kids are, and that's what matters most to him. Who are we to tell him to buy a sack of potatoes and a bag of rice.

He's working 2 jobs and still struggling. He needs to sit down with pen and paper and workout where he's going wrong. 

[Kittens Are Jerks]

Just now, stevewinn said:

He's working 2 jobs and still struggling. He needs to sit down with pen and paper and workout where he's going wrong. 

He's not going wrong anywhere. He's working low income jobs doing his best to provide for his family.

But yes, he and his wife do sit down and work it out every month. They have not other choice.

[stevewinn]

3 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

He's not going wrong anywhere. He's working low income jobs doing his best to provide for his family.

But yes, he and his wife do sit down and work it out every month. They have not other choice.

When you talk to him, does he allude to how he's trying to improve the situation or is he just going through the motions? 

Edited July 31, 2018 by stevewinn

[Eldorado]

1 hour ago, Mr.United_Nations said:

You should come here to the UK. Large women with 8 kids and living on benefits

We have poor role models.

Here are some of the old dodges our elected reps used to love until outed by the Daily Telegraph....

Nominating second homes: The Green Book states that "the location of your main home will normally be a matter of fact". MPs and peers were able to ensure that their second home was the one which enabled them to claim more expenses.[43][44][45] In at least one case (Margaret Moran) the nominated home was near neither constituency nor Westminster.[46]

Re-designating second homes: MPs were able repeatedly to switch the designation of their second home, enabling them to claim for purchasing (e.g. Stamp Duty), renovating and furnishing more than one property.[47] This practice became widely known as "flipping".[48]

Renting out homes: MPs were able to claim for their “second home” while they were, in fact, renting other homes out. In most cases the rented homes were ‘third’ properties,[49][50] but in Elliott Morley’s case, a second home was rented to another MP, Ian Cawsey who was claiming the rent on expenses.[51]

Over-claiming for council tax on second home: MPs were able to round up actual amounts due, claiming for 12 monthly instalments where only 10 were due or by claiming up to £250.00 per month with no receipt required until those rules were changed. Over 50 MPs were alleged to have over-claimed council tax.[52]

Subsidising property development: The Green Book rule that MPs could not claim for repairs "beyond making good dilapidations" was not enforced and consequently MPs were able to add significantly to the value of a property.[53][54] By implication some “second homes” were effectively businesses (not homes) since they were renovated on expenses and then rapidly sold.[55]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_parliamentary_expenses_scandal

We are Governed by "Benefits Cheats".

Edited July 31, 2018 by Eldorado

[hetrodoxly]

6 hours ago, Eldorado said:

Did I say it was only poor asthmatic children we sacrificed (helped to die) in order to save some dough?  You said the poor were given "free medicine" and my reply was about the quality of treatment one can expect with the NHS under the Tories.  Those kids were deliberately given the wrong medication.  To save some bloody money.

You wanting to hear about the murdered old age pensioners now?  The folk who protected us when we were growing, educated us and made Britain the civilized country it is today.

You're claiming doctors intentionally killed children?

[Eldorado]

18 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

You're claiming doctors intentionally killed children?

Nope.

"Too many GPs were prescribing patients with the wrong medication in an attempt to keep down costs."

I'm saying they helped them die by knowingly supplying them with the wrong medication in order to save some money.

If you do want to talk murder though, we can chat about the Gosport Hospital mass-murder of old age pensioners. (Nobody is in prison)

Edited July 31, 2018 by Eldorado

[aztek]

Just now, Mr.United_Nations said:

You should come here to the UK. Large women with 8 kids and living on benefits

i guarantee we got more of those, a lot more

[Setton]

5 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Im pretty confused as to how you think those links disproves my point. A family of four can have full stomachs for 8 bucks or they can have a salad. 

Further IDK if you guys have little caesers or comparable over there but for just an additional 2 dollars you can purchase two large pizzas. So you can spend 10 bucks on two meals for that family of four or you can spend 10 bucks on one meal of a thick salad. 

I should back up a little and say that clearly poor education leads to poor decision making all the way around but for the truly poor who are living not just paycheck to paycheck but day to day the choice between being full and not is an easy one. 

Not often I disagree with you but it's definitely cheaper to cook fresh in the UK than fast food. If you're smart about it. We don't have the same fast food culture the US does. 

I cook fresh most nights. Most meals cost around £3-4 for the two of us at most. 

[stevewinn]

7 minutes ago, Setton said:

Not often I disagree with you but it's definitely cheaper to cook fresh in the UK than fast food. If you're smart about it. We don't have the same fast food culture the US does. 

I cook fresh most nights. Most meals cost around £3-4 for the two of us at most. 

And that's why Setton goes to Iceland. 

[Kittens Are Jerks]

3 hours ago, stevewinn said:

When you talk to him, does he allude to how he's trying to improve the situation or is he just going through the motions? 

He doesn't discuss his personal situation much, but I do know that he has been working towards a degree in engineering. It will take him a while as he's only able to take 2-3 courses a year, but he'll get there.

[Setton]

29 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

And that's why Setton goes to Iceland. 

Aldi 

And if it closes because of brexit I'm sending you the M&S bill 

[Essan]

53 minutes ago, Setton said:

Not often I disagree with you but it's definitely cheaper to cook fresh in the UK than fast food. If you're smart about it. We don't have the same fast food culture the US does. 

I cook fresh most nights. Most meals cost around £3-4 for the two of us at most. 

Me too.  I also have a very low income.  I can't afford takeaways!   Or a car.   Mind, I do manage a bottle of (Aldi) wine a night .....   
 

[hetrodoxly]

3 hours ago, Eldorado said:

I'm saying they helped them die by knowingly supplying them with the wrong medication

That's the same thing, would it not be the case they thought the blue one would work and being cheaper the obvious choice but got it wrong?

[hetrodoxly]

The NHS is 'BLOODY FANTASTIC' and something to be immensely proud of, if you're over 60 you get Viagra free  our cousin's across the pond get the wrong idea of us whinging Brits, they think we have rotten teeth whereas ours are the healthiest teeth in the world and they'er about 10th on the list, it's far from perfect but still  'BLOODY FANTASTIC'.

[Eldorado]

4 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

That's the same thing, would it not be the case they thought the blue one would work and being cheaper the obvious choice but got it wrong?

It's not the same thing, and yes a few may have made a genuine mistake but...

"The report’s authors said too often patients were seen by practice nurses who had not been properly trained, while GPs were under pressure to prescribe the cheapest medication, rather than the most effective."

That's not me saying that, it's the report's authors... The Royal College of Physicians

"Dr Mark Levy, the report’s lead author, said many of the avoidable deaths could have been prevented if GPs had monitored patients’ properly, or not tried to cut costs."

They wouldn't be saying that if everything was all down to genuine human error, would they now?  They would have blamed the System.

 

[aztek]

so basically it turns our your free healthcare is total garbage. and will kill you sooner than cure you.

Edited July 31, 2018 by aztek

[hetrodoxly]

13 minutes ago, aztek said:

so basically it turns our your free healthcare is total garbage. and will kill you sooner than cure you.

Life expectancy.

UK 81.2

USA 79.6

[aztek]

Just now, hetrodoxly said:

Life expectancy.

UK 81.2

USA 79.6

so?  it does not reflect quality of healthcare much, even if it did , the difference is negligible, there are many variables involved besides healthcare.

not to mention no one says our system is great,  it's no better than yours if you are poor.

Edited July 31, 2018 by aztek

[hetrodoxly]

34 minutes ago, aztek said:

so?  it does not reflect quality of healthcare much, even if it did , the difference is negligible, there are many variables involved besides healthcare.

not to mention no one says our system is great,  it's no better than yours if you are poor.

The difference isn't negligible it put's America 11 places behind the UK

Here's the rankings

http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-health-care-information/world-health-organizations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/

[aztek]

Just now, hetrodoxly said:

The difference isn't negligible it put's America 11 places behind the UK

Here's the rankings

http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-health-care-information/world-health-organizations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/

lol, so what,  less than 2 years at the 80 range statistically, it is negligible  in real world.

the topic is a better indication.

[hetrodoxly]

41 minutes ago, aztek said:

so?  it does not reflect quality of healthcare much, even if it did , the difference is negligible, there are many variables involved besides healthcare.

not to mention no one says our system is great,  it's no better than yours if you are poor.

Unless you're one of the few who pay for private healtcare you get the same care if your poor as you do if you have a good job.

[aztek]

Just now, hetrodoxly said:

Unless you're one of the few who pay for private healtcare you get the same care if your poor as you do if you have a good job.

what makes you think that? all healthcare is private in usa, it is who pays can be either private insurance, or gvmnt. i pay about 600 a month for medical for whole family, my company pays about 2x more for me.

but our system is bad, i'm not even debating that, what i'm debating yours is not any better, yet we hear, "we have free healthcare for all,  you need to be like us" well now we see what kind of care it is.

but that is expected when healthcare is for profit.

Edited July 31, 2018 by aztek

[Eldorado]

Our NHS is the international disgrace it has become because it has been deliberately underfunded by HM Gov for the last eight years.

For those interested.... from the US of A.  Home of the Brave.

“Scared to go to the Hospital”: Inpatient Experiences with Undesirable Events

Despite over a decade of national attention to the problem of patient safety, as described in To Err is Human and Crossing the Quality Chasm, a recent study estimates that over 440,000 people die every year from preventable medical errors in U.S. hospitals.
As of 2016, preventable medical errors are considered the third leading cause of death in the United States, behind only heart disease and cancer.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5333238/

 

 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Eldorado

[CrimsonKing]

15 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Sorry but no you can not eat healthy for the same price as you can eat garbage food. 

You can buy the ingredients for a salad for the same price you can buy two pizzas at little caesars and the pizzas will provide multiple meals. 

Same for McDonalds. In a pinch a family of four can have a cheeseburger and fries for 8 bucks. You cannot buy fresh non processed ingredients and create a meal for that much. Sure you can buy 99 cent only store food but when discussing health that crap is as bad for you as mcd's 

That doesn't even begin to touch on the other factors such as working long hours or multiple jobs etc. 

Sorry Farmer,but this just isn't true...

Yes it would take time and effort but i guarantee you a family of 4 can eat much healthier and several more servings a week for $60 than the 8-10 dollars for a single meal 7 days a week...

Yeah one would have to get creative and spend 1 whole grocery bill alone on spices,but if it saves one from nutrient deficient eating so be it.

No joke my diet from about 19-22 my first few years on my own,with a full time job,and training when i wasn't sleeping went something like this...

I would eat 3-4 medium/large meals and 2 snacks a day...

1 large bag brown rice,4 lb bag pinto beans,2 1/2 dozen large eggs,10 cans tuna,bag of chicken legs,and a trip to the farmers market for a few fruit and veggies...i'd wind up spending about $49 bucks even after purchasing a multivite to cover anything i was short on...

I know what you'll think,"but you were one person" which is true...but take into consideration how many times i ate and how much that bill produced over a 10 day span and you will see my point,compared to $8-10 dollars 7 days a week just for dinner!

Plus none of my meals could have ever sat in a car or on a shelf for 5+ years with little change lol