Koch-backed study finds ‘Medicare for All’

[RavenHawk]

On 7/31/2018 at 3:07 PM, green_dude777 said:

On paper worked out pretty well for General and Special Relativity

Relativity was well practiced long before paper existed.

[GlitterRose]

4 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Well of course they're going to say it will improve care. They are trying to sell it as a good idea.

The ACA was supposed to be a good idea. Supposedly the State sponsored Marketplaces were going to be so competitive and so effective, that regular insurance was going to be quickly fazed out. But that is not what we saw happen, is it? Supposedly ALL insurance rates were going to start being having less increase each year, but we didn't really see that either. Supposedly it was going to do a lot of things, but only some of the good things turned out to be true. 

I see it much the same here. I'd like them to prove to me that they can run a clean ship first... Get the VA humming like a Swiss built watch... and then I'll consider handing over my profit driven system for a socialist "for the public good" system.

I think people just like the status quo because it's less work to not change things.

But if we don't change things, then people are still gonna go bankrupt trying to pay their medical bills.

They're still gonna go without care when they can't afford it. 

That sucks.

The ACA wasn't perfect, but at least it was an attempt to fix a system that was already broken. 

[GlitterRose]

Any new system is gonna have kinks to work out. 

But that's what our politicians are supposed to do. 

Work together to fix stuff. 

But people just attack each other on the grounds of what initial is behind their name. 

Honestly, the only idea the right has come up with seems to be privatizing everything, which we can see results in stuff sucking to an ever greater extent.

So that's not gonna fix anything. 

But that's probably what we'll end up with. 

[Michelle]

4 hours ago, DieChecker said:

I see it much the same here. I'd like them to prove to me that they can run a clean ship first... Get the VA humming like a Swiss built watch... and then I'll consider handing over my profit driven system for a socialist "for the public good" system.

The VA is exactly the model I take for government run healthcare. The one locally, I have been told, is run extremely well. Reports elsewhere, overall, are dismal though. This one is the exception and not the rule.

[Gromdor]

10 minutes ago, GlitterRose said:

Any new system is gonna have kinks to work out. 

But that's what our politicians are supposed to do. 

Work together to fix stuff. 

But people just attack each other on the grounds of what initial is behind their name. 

Honestly, the only idea the right has come up with seems to be privatizing everything, which we can see results in stuff sucking to an ever greater extent.

So that's not gonna fix anything. 

But that's probably what we'll end up with. 

Well Obamacare didn't come from a vacuum.  It was the result of an attempt to solve serious issues with our healthcare system.  Merely rolling back to where we were before will just bring these issues back to the forefront.  With that in mind, I am fully confident that something will happen to fix the system and my gut is telling me that it will end up being socialized medicine.

[GlitterRose]

1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

Well Obamacare didn't come from a vacuum.  It was the result of an attempt to solve serious issues with our healthcare system.  Merely rolling back to where we were before will just bring these issues back to the forefront.  With that in mind, I am fully confident that something will happen to fix the system and my gut is telling me that it will end up being socialized medicine.

Eventually, we might get there.

Especially, if they privatize and muck everything up beyond all reason. 

[GlitterRose]

I am still really surprised they let this study see the light of day, and I wonder what their motives are.

[+DieChecker]

10 hours ago, GlitterRose said:

I think people just like the status quo because it's less work to not change things.

But if we don't change things, then people are still gonna go bankrupt trying to pay their medical bills.

They're still gonna go without care when they can't afford it. 

That sucks.

The ACA wasn't perfect, but at least it was an attempt to fix a system that was already broken. 

Not only is it less work, but implementing any change, with anything, is always going to be expensive at first. Things often then get better. But in our Capitalist society, no one wants to foot the initial bill unless they can get that money back, plus some more.

I seriously agree that people going bankrupt shouldn't be the answer. Ruining people's credit for 7+ years, and ruining their daily lives for at least that long also, is horrible. I thought I was going to have to go bankrupt once over 10 years ago and it is a very stressful, emotional thing.

I suspect it is an American thing though, that not going to the doctor until the last minute. It is a Pavlovian result of where our healthcare  system has been allowed to go. With prices being so expensive, people don't want that expense hit, and so will rather stay home and google remedies online. 

I don't think the whole insurance/healthcare thing is really the problem. Out of control pricing and expenses are. For profit hospitals that charge the maximum that they can, just to pad the pockets of shareholders.... I do think that is wrong.

I don't think the ACA was successful in fixing that issue. The same hospitals, and same insurance companies, were involved and required the same earnings, so they ended up pulling out of the Marketplaces, or ramping up the rates to non-marketplace levels.

Edited August 4, 2018 by DieChecker

[DarkHunter]

On 8/3/2018 at 1:42 PM, Gromdor said:

The thing is Americans get medicare after age 65 as it stands which we are all already funding.  Diechecker also pointed out that people on medicare are the ones for universal healthcare.  That is not the attitude of people dissatisfied with the system they are in.

Americans do get medicare after 65 but I think a more detailed look into it is needed.

In 2016 medicare cost the government $672.1 billion of tax revenue and covered approximately 15% of the population, most of whom are 65 or over.  

Currently there are four parts to medicare being part a, b, c, and d.

Medicare part a has no premiums to pay but only covers hospital stays and hospice.  It has an inpatient hospital deductible of $1,340 and after 60 days the person has to pay $335 per day to stay in the hospital up to day 90.  After day 90 comes the life time reserve days of which there are 60 and said person needs to pay $670 a day to stay in a hospital.  For skilled nursing facility the first 20 days are free with the next 80 costing $167.50 a day.

Part b is optional and is the medical insurance part of medicare.  Has a deductible of $187 and covers 80% of the cost while the person has to cover the remaining 20%.  The monthly premiums are based on the person's income and varies from $134 to $428.60 a month.

Part c is essentially alternatives plans that have to match the same coverage at minimum of medicare part a and b but can do it by other methods.

Part d just helps to cover the cost of some prescriptive drugs.

The vast majority of people seem to use part a, b, and d.  Should be mentioned medicare does not cover all medical procedures.

Interestingly according to AARP only 1 out of 10 people using medicare rely on it solely with the other 9 also having some kind of supplemental coverage.

So medicare doesnt cover everything, the people using it still have to pay significant cost out of pocket along with the taxes to support it, most of the people using medicare have some sort supplemental coverage to help cover cost medicare doesnt cover, and while only covering about 15% of the population it cost almost $700 billion a year and it's supposed to be an argument used to show how good government health care is.

[Setton]

17 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Americans do get medicare after 65 but I think a more detailed look into it is needed.

In 2016 medicare cost the government $672.1 billion of tax revenue and covered approximately 15% of the population, most of whom are 65 or over.  

Currently there are four parts to medicare being part a, b, c, and d.

Medicare part a has no premiums to pay but only covers hospital stays and hospice.  It has an inpatient hospital deductible of $1,340 and after 60 days the person has to pay $335 per day to stay in the hospital up to day 90.  After day 90 comes the life time reserve days of which there are 60 and said person needs to pay $670 a day to stay in a hospital.  For skilled nursing facility the first 20 days are free with the next 80 costing $167.50 a day.

Part b is optional and is the medical insurance part of medicare.  Has a deductible of $187 and covers 80% of the cost while the person has to cover the remaining 20%.  The monthly premiums are based on the person's income and varies from $134 to $428.60 a month.

Part c is essentially alternatives plans that have to match the same coverage at minimum of medicare part a and b but can do it by other methods.

Part d just helps to cover the cost of some prescriptive drugs.

The vast majority of people seem to use part a, b, and d.  Should be mentioned medicare does not cover all medical procedures.

Interestingly according to AARP only 1 out of 10 people using medicare rely on it solely with the other 9 also having some kind of supplemental coverage.

So medicare doesnt cover everything, the people using it still have to pay significant cost out of pocket along with the taxes to support it, most of the people using medicare have some sort supplemental coverage to help cover cost medicare doesnt cover, and while only covering about 15% of the population it cost almost $700 billion a year and it's supposed to be an argument used to show how good government health care is.

Meanwhile, it costs us around £2000 a year on average for anything and everything we might need. Oh and £9 for a prescription if you can afford it. 

[Grandpa Greenman]

They keep focusing on how much It will raise taxes.  How about rather than taking it from the tax system and when we put everybody on medicare, everybody pays into the system like most of us do to a private company, but instead of paying a middleman who buys this beach house;  

it actually goes back into the system to pay for healthcare.  (This is Florida Governor Rick Scott's house on Naples beach which he bought by ripping off Medicare, then he bought the Governor's office. This is really what your healthcare premium pays for.)  Right now, we are going through an ecological nightmare, because water from the largest most polluted lake in state is being dumped on our coast line.  What has Scott done about it. Nothing, big sugar his him in their hip pocket.  Now his is running for Senate. The guy is a criminal, if you live Florida and in his district, DON'T VOTE FOR HIM.  

  http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-bc-us--algae-bloom-florida-20180802-story.html

Edited August 5, 2018 by Grandpa Greenman

[aztek]

On 8/5/2018 at 9:10 AM, Grandpa Greenman said:

The guy is a criminal, if you live Florida and in his district, DON'T VOTE FOR HIM.  

  http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-bc-us--algae-bloom-florida-20180802-story.html

yea, that would be all peachy if another guy was any different, but in vast majority of cases both are criminals, so chose wisely, lol