'Walt' E. Kurtz Posted August 3, 2018 #1 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Man with Downs Syndrom carrying toy gun shot dead by Swedish Police. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/downs-syndrome-man-shot-dead-police-toy-gun-sweden-stockholm-eric-torell-a8475621.html 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Walt' E. Kurtz Posted August 3, 2018 Author #2 Share Posted August 3, 2018 (edited) From what i know the Swedish Police has no Medical Education and is today taught to respond and shoot faster. regardles the situation or if you have a split second to choose to fire your gun aren't they trained to handle situation like these? apparently the Police men involved in the shooting should have been pros. Yeah real pros ! Good on ya! It makes me puzzled on how you can miss to see that someone got Down's syndrom and that he's carrying a toy gun for five years old shooting him dead. :-( Edited August 3, 2018 by Avalanche 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted August 3, 2018 #3 Share Posted August 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, Avalanche said: From what i know the Swedish Police has no Medical Education and is today taught to respond and shoot I faster regardles if you have a split second to choose to fire your gun aren't they trained to handle situation like these? apparently the Police men involved in the shooting should have been pros. It makes me puzzled on how you can miss to see that someone got Down's syndrom and that he's carrying a toy gun for five years old and then shoot him dead. :-( If it had of been a real gun would that have made a difference? Or is the downs syndrome? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Walt' E. Kurtz Posted August 3, 2018 Author #4 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Yes it would have made a difference if he had been carrying a real gun. the whole thing is very unfortunate and very tragic. From what i know the Police aim for the legs regarding on the situation but its harder to hit the legs than to aim for the torso and also its easier to stop someone with hitting the vital organs. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldorado Posted August 3, 2018 #5 Share Posted August 3, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Avalanche said: It makes me puzzled on how you can miss to see that someone got Down's syndrom and that he's carrying a toy gun for five years old shooting him dead. :-( It's simply a tragedy, by look of it. (Lots of folks saying, "Why didn't I...") The article says it was a replica firearm but also says it was toy. Any pics from local media showing the gun? A 20yr-old stranger with downs syndrome approaching me with a replica in his hand would freak me out, I reckon. Granted, I'm not a trained and armed police officer. Awful sad, this story. Edited August 3, 2018 by Eldorado 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Walt' E. Kurtz Posted August 3, 2018 Author #6 Share Posted August 3, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Eldorado said: It's simply a tragedy, by look of it. The article says it was a replica firearm but also says it was toy. Any pics from local media showing the gun? A 20yr-old stranger with downs syndrome approaching me with a replica would freak me out, I reckon. Its indeed a tragedy :-( and a very sad one. I found a picture of the supposed gun. im not an expert but it kind of look like some sort of replica. Edited August 3, 2018 by Avalanche 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldorado Posted August 3, 2018 #7 Share Posted August 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Avalanche said: Its indeed a tragedy :-( I found a picture of the supposed gun. im not an expert but it kind of look like some sort of replica. Doesn't look like a toy. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Walt' E. Kurtz Posted August 3, 2018 Author #8 Share Posted August 3, 2018 (edited) It's impossible to tell if a replica gun is real or fake :-(. if you run around with a replica its bound to end in tragedy. :-( Edited August 3, 2018 by Avalanche 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted August 3, 2018 #9 Share Posted August 3, 2018 That's very sad. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skliss Posted August 4, 2018 #10 Share Posted August 4, 2018 Here toy guns must have a bright orange plastic piece on it to distinguish it easily from a real gun. All my boys toy guns had them. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted August 4, 2018 #11 Share Posted August 4, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Avalanche said: Yes it would have made a difference if he had been carrying a real gun. the whole thing is very unfortunate and very tragic. From what i know the Police aim for the legs regarding on the situation but its harder to hit the legs than to aim for the torso and also its easier to stop someone with hitting the vital organs. yes it is tragic and even more so when the police just blindly evaluate every incident with the same response, regardless of the circumstances, i.e. i saw a gun so in fear for my safety i shot the perpetrator. there was no wounded or dead people or discharge or the "pistol" to alert the police to a dangerous situation. if they had to shoot they could have shot him in the legs. how hard is it to fit a laser sight on a pistol?? not hard at all. but to be fair to the police there is a legal issue that goes along the lines of if the threat warrants shooting then its shoot to kill and unload as many rounds as possible. after all dead men don't sue. time to change the laws in order to save lives. Edited August 4, 2018 by Captain Risky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHunter Posted August 4, 2018 #12 Share Posted August 4, 2018 4 hours ago, Captain Risky said: yes it is tragic and even more so when the police just blindly evaluate every incident with the same response, regardless of the circumstances, i.e. i saw a gun so in fear for my safety i shot the perpetrator. there was no wounded or dead people or discharge or the "pistol" to alert the police to a dangerous situation. if they had to shoot they could have shot him in the legs. how hard is it to fit a laser sight on a pistol?? not hard at all. but to be fair to the police there is a legal issue that goes along the lines of if the threat warrants shooting then its shoot to kill and unload as many rounds as possible. after all dead men don't sue. time to change the laws in order to save lives. Out of curiosity have you ever shot a pistol before cause aiming for the legs instead of center mass is one of the worst ideas one could have. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted August 4, 2018 #13 Share Posted August 4, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, DarkHunter said: Out of curiosity have you ever shot a pistol before cause aiming for the legs instead of center mass is one of the worst ideas one could have. i was a member of pistol club for many years and i see your point it is harder to aim for the legs as opposed the torso but not as hard as you would make out. a laser sight would make it easier, police wear body armour so they have an advantage over any potential shooter and i believe that they should judge every incident on its own merits and anticipate that it might be some mentally sick person or a toy gun. Edited August 4, 2018 by Captain Risky 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted August 4, 2018 #14 Share Posted August 4, 2018 23 hours ago, stevewinn said: If it had of been a real gun would that have made a difference? Or is the downs syndrome? i wonder if the cops actually looked at the"threat" or the gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHunter Posted August 4, 2018 #15 Share Posted August 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Captain Risky said: i was a member of pistol club for many years and i see your point it is harder to aim for the legs as opposed the torso but not as hard as you would make out. a laser sight would make it easier, police wear body armour so they have an advantage over any potential shooter and i believe that they should judge every incident on its own merits and anticipate that it might be some mentally sick person or a toy gun. What happens when they miss in a urban environment, which they will miss more often, and you have bullets flying who knows how far past the target and potentially ricochet in who knows what direction. A mentally sick person can be just as dangerous or even more dangerous then someone who isnt. As for toy gun or not once again the risk of taking that second guess is extremely high, if they are right then everything ends well if not then there is a risk of a shoot out in an urban environment where they dont get to shoot first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted August 4, 2018 #16 Share Posted August 4, 2018 Just now, DarkHunter said: What happens when they miss in a urban environment, which they will miss more often, and you have bullets flying who knows how far past the target and potentially ricochet in who knows what direction. A mentally sick person can be just as dangerous or even more dangerous then someone who isnt. As for toy gun or not once again the risk of taking that second guess is extremely high, if they are right then everything ends well if not then there is a risk of a shoot out in an urban environment where they dont get to shoot first. thats a good question. it would be tragic if someone innocent got caught up in any cross fire. but i don't think it right that just shooting someone dead that otherwise doesn't have to die should be so easy. police have options and technology and id like them to use'em instead of just shooting someone dead as the first option. if there were gun shots or wounded people then okay the police should shoot first. there was none here, so what efforts did the police make to justify that their lives or the public were in danger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Waters Posted April 13, 2019 #17 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Update: Quote Swedish police charged over fatal shooting of man with Down's syndrome Two officers have been charged with official misconduct and one with causing the man's death. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47913541 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted April 13, 2019 #18 Share Posted April 13, 2019 On 03/08/2018 at 4:37 PM, Impedancer said: Yes it would have made a difference if he had been carrying a real gun. the whole thing is very unfortunate and very tragic. From what i know the Police aim for the legs regarding on the situation but its harder to hit the legs than to aim for the torso and also its easier to stop someone with hitting the vital organs. No you aim for the body, you don't have time to sight your pistol plus someone shot in the legs can still shoot you back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted April 15, 2019 #19 Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) did they hire american cops who were fired from forces in usa? sure seem that way judging by the result. Edited April 15, 2019 by aztek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted April 17, 2019 #20 Share Posted April 17, 2019 If the gun was real as the police thought and a policeman was shot dead. Would it be right to jail the man who had downs to life in prison? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Walt' E. Kurtz Posted April 17, 2019 Author #21 Share Posted April 17, 2019 The three police men who shot and killed a man with downs got convited one for manslaughter and the other two for causing death to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the frog Posted April 17, 2019 #22 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Would be great ll cops pistols have mandatory two first rounds with rubber bullet...or non lethal first shot attachment. Would reduce some of this errors without endangering the cop to much if the guy have real weapons. https://gizmodo.com/this-clip-on-handgun-attachment-makes-bullets-non-letha-1730039256 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted April 17, 2019 #23 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Jeez. Sorry folks, but if somebody walks around town with a replican machine gun, then they're going to get shot. the police - so far as we know - had no way of knowing it was a fake. They certainly had no way of knowing he had Downs syndrome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Walt' E. Kurtz Posted April 17, 2019 Author #24 Share Posted April 17, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: Jeez. Sorry folks, but if somebody walks around town with a replican machine gun, then they're going to get shot. the police - so far as we know - had no way of knowing it was a fake. They certainly had no way of knowing he had Downs Tragic. the police was called out to a place where a known dangerous criminal also lived and spotted the man with downs who was out with his toy gun (i believe the police mistook him for the criminal) not sure if it was some kind of replica it looks like one though. Edited April 17, 2019 by Impedancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted April 22, 2019 #25 Share Posted April 22, 2019 (edited) On 8/3/2018 at 8:37 AM, Impedancer said: From what i know the Police aim for the legs regarding on the situation That is absolutely not true anywhere in world. Have you ever shot a pistol? It's much harder to hit a target than you think especially if your are under stress. police are trained to shoot at the center mass of a human target, the torso. Never the legs. See below the typical target from a police range. There aren't even any legs to practice on. Once the decision has been made to fire the weapon the decision has been made to kill the person being fired on. Edited April 22, 2019 by OverSword 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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