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The Caspian Hare

Saudi Arabia expels Canadian ambassador

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The Caspian Hare
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Saudi Arabia has declared the ambassador of Canada persona non grata and ordered him to leave in 24 hours, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said on Monday.


The Kingdom is also recalling its ambassador to Ottawa and that it is freezing all new business and investment transactions with Canada  "while retaining its right to take further action," the ministry said in a statement carried by the official Saudi Press Agency (SPA).


The ministry said it has told the Canadian foreign minister and embassy in Riyadh of its objection to their interference in the case of "civil society activists" who were arrested in the Kingdom. Canada has been pressing the Kingdom to release them immediately.

 

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1351711/saudi-arabia

 

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What is the back-story?  Were the "civil society activists" Canadians who were working with some Saudis to agitate for social change?  I didn't think a Canadian Diplomat could ever be considered "persona non grata".  It's a little like hating on the cartoon characters "Chip and Dale" the totally friendly chipmunks.

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Kittens Are Jerks
8 minutes ago, and then said:

What is the back-story?  Were the "civil society activists" Canadians who were working with some Saudis to agitate for social change?  I didn't think a Canadian Diplomat could ever be considered "persona non grata".  It's a little like hating on the cartoon characters "Chip and Dale" the totally friendly chipmunks.

I know, right? We're adorable.

We took the Saudis to task after they arrested two women’s-rights activists (the latest to be swept up in a crackdown on activists, clerics and journalists).

In response, Chrystia Freeland, our Foreign Affairs Minister, tweeted the following:

Very alarmed to learn that Samar Badawi, Raif Badawi’s sister, has been imprisoned in Saudi Arabia. Canada stands together with the Badawi family in this difficult time, and we continue to strongly call for the release of both Raif and Samar Badawi.
    — Chrystia Freeland (@cafreeland) August 2, 2018

Then our government’s main foreign policy Twitter account followed this up by saying:

Canada is gravely concerned about additional arrests of civil society and women’s rights activists in #SaudiArabia, including Samar Badawi. We urge the Saudi authorities to immediately release them and all other peaceful #humanrights activists.
    — Foreign Policy CAN (@CanadaFP) August 3, 2018

These tweets did not sit well with the Saudis.

Source: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-saudi-arabia-expelling-canadian-ambassador-freezing-trade-with-canada/

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Kittens Are Jerks

Can the Saudis overreact any more than they already have?  It would appear so.

Saudi Arabia-Canada Feud Hits Absurd Heights With Tweet Alluding to 9/11
Saudi Arabia vs. Canada may sound less like a bitter international feud than an opening-round World Cup matchup, but the strange dispute between the countries, which only really began on Friday, is escalating fast. How fast? On Monday, a Twitter account associated with Saudia Arabia appearing to threaten Canada with a 9/11 style attack.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/08/canada-saudi-arabia-feud-9-11-tweet.html

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The Caspian Hare
12 hours ago, and then said:

What is the back-story?  Were the "civil society activists" Canadians who were working with some Saudis to agitate for social change?  I didn't think a Canadian Diplomat could ever be considered "persona non grata".  It's a little like hating on the cartoon characters "Chip and Dale" the totally friendly chipmunks.

Has partly to do with Raif Badawi, a political prisoner in KSA, he has been subjected to public flogging & imprisoned for his beliefs, I think you would be interested in his story, one of the more appalling stories

https://www.news1130.com/2018/08/02/raif-badawis-sister-arrested-in-saudi-arabia-amnesty-international/

We sell weapons to these people and give them logistical support for their war in Yemen <_<

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and then
45 minutes ago, The Caspian Hare said:

We sell weapons to these people and give them logistical support for their war in Yemen <_<

I'm familiar with Badawi's story and I agree it is shameful of them.  The House of Saud is disgusting and so is the necessity to choose between various evils.  If we abandon them, they fall in a VERY short amount of time.  Iran then controls the oil wealth and the straits of Hormuz.  If Iran does not succeed in taking control, an ongoing meatgrinder like Syria would occur.  There are no simple solutions to these problems and just railing at those who enrich themselves at the expense of the rest of the world is like complaining that water is wet.  Things are what they are.  Every time we fill our vehicles with gas, we pay for the spreading of the Wahabi fundamentalist message around the globe via the Saudis.  It's insanity.

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Kittens Are Jerks
14 minutes ago, and then said:

I'm familiar with Badawi's story and I agree it is shameful of them.  The House of Saud is disgusting and so is the necessity to choose between various evils.  If we abandon them, they fall in a VERY short amount of time.  Iran then controls the oil wealth and the straits of Hormuz.  If Iran does not succeed in taking control, an ongoing meatgrinder like Syria would occur.  There are no simple solutions to these problems and just railing at those who enrich themselves at the expense of the rest of the world is like complaining that water is wet.  Things are what they are.  Every time we fill our vehicles with gas, we pay for the spreading of the Wahabi fundamentalist message around the globe via the Saudis.  It's insanity.

The Middle East is a mess.

I'm glad we're a resource-rich country. I'm also glad we're not backing down, especially after reading things like this:

Saudi watchers suggest the new Crown Prince, Mohammed bin Salman, is using Canada to send a strong signal to Western governments to scale back criticism of his country. Saudi Arabia regularly ranks among the “worst of the worst” on human-rights ratings put out by U.S. watchdog Freedom House.

Bessma Momani, a political science professor at the University of Waterloo, said she thinks the Saudi backlash “was very calculated” and that Riyadh chose the Canadian government under the progressive leadership of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to make a point. “If you’re going to go after a Western government critic, who are you going to go after? You’re going to go after Justin Trudeau,” Mr. Momani said. “You have a female foreign minister, you have a feminist Prime Minister. … It frankly sells in Saudi Arabia and among [the] clique of like-minded dictators and autocratic regime leaders who are tired of the West telling them how to run things.”

The U.K. Parliament has criticized the Saudi war in Yemen, but Mr. Momani said too many rich Saudis live in London for Riyadh to retaliate there. Plus, Saudi Arabia does more two-way trade with the United Kingdom than with Canada. “You don’t pick on the U.K., where a lot of Saudi tycoons have their money. You go after Canada. It’s an easy target.”

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-saudi-arabia-to-withdraw-all-saudi-students-studying-at-canadian/

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Kittens Are Jerks

Saudi group apologises after airliner post resembling 9/11
A group in Saudi Arabia apologised and deleted a Twitter post showing an image of an Air Canada passenger plane veering towards Toronto's tallest skyscraper with a warning against meddling in others' affairs.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/08/saudi-group-apologises-airliner-post-resembling-911-180807054738005.html

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GlitterRose
4 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Saudi group apologises after airliner post resembling 9/11
A group in Saudi Arabia apologised and deleted a Twitter post showing an image of an Air Canada passenger plane veering towards Toronto's tallest skyscraper with a warning against meddling in others' affairs.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/08/saudi-group-apologises-airliner-post-resembling-911-180807054738005.html

Yeah, that was pretty shi**y. 

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Kittens Are Jerks
1 hour ago, GlitterRose said:

Yeah, that was pretty shi**y. 

Yes it was. But the Saudi's response is not surprising. Lashing out and penalising critics is typical behaviour.

They punished us so that they could intimidate and silence others — and so far it's working. Barely a peep from other western countries.

But we're standing by our principles and not taking anything back. and I'm glad of that.

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The Caspian Hare
22 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Saudi group apologises after airliner post resembling 9/11
A group in Saudi Arabia apologised and deleted a Twitter post showing an image of an Air Canada passenger plane veering towards Toronto's tallest skyscraper with a warning against meddling in others' affairs.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/08/saudi-group-apologises-airliner-post-resembling-911-180807054738005.html

Saudis ... <_<

Who is our real enemy in the region ... Iran doesn't fly planes into our buildings or blow up concerts.

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The Caspian Hare
On 8/6/2018 at 10:22 PM, and then said:

I'm familiar with Badawi's story and I agree it is shameful of them.  The House of Saud is disgusting and so is the necessity to choose between various evils.  If we abandon them, they fall in a VERY short amount of time.  Iran then controls the oil wealth and the straits of Hormuz.  If Iran does not succeed in taking control, an ongoing meatgrinder like Syria would occur.  There are no simple solutions to these problems and just railing at those who enrich themselves at the expense of the rest of the world is like complaining that water is wet.  Things are what they are.  Every time we fill our vehicles with gas, we pay for the spreading of the Wahabi fundamentalist message around the globe via the Saudis.  It's insanity.

I don't like their Islamic theocracy, but I do not think Iran is quite the menace it is sometimes made out to be. They haven't invaded a neighbor in 200 years. Even if Iran wanted to I don't think they could take Saudi Arabia in conventional battle. They coulkd stir internal unrest using the Shia Arabs on the eastern region maybe. But they also have big problems internally, like an aging population and discontent over economic stagnation.

More to the point we are energy independent now between the shale oil revolution and the oil we get from stable countries. I think we should stop interfering in these Mideast disputes. The cost is high and it always seems to backfire.

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odas
29 minutes ago, The Caspian Hare said:

I don't like their Islamic theocracy, but I do not think Iran is quite the menace it is sometimes made out to be. They haven't invaded a neighbor in 200 years. Even if Iran wanted to I don't think they could take Saudi Arabia in conventional battle. They coulkd stir internal unrest using the Shia Arabs on the eastern region maybe. But they also have big problems internally, like an aging population and discontent over economic stagnation.

More to the point we are energy independent now between the shale oil revolution and the oil we get from stable countries. I think we should stop interfering in these Mideast disputes. The cost is high and it always seems to backfire.

No. Iran was never s thret but the west was always picking on them for reasons we all know.

Saudi Arabia, the most hipocritical nation in the world, the biggest exporter of radicalism and terrorism and the biggest US doormatt. The nation that made a mockery out of a decsent and progressive religion.

It does look very convinient that all of a sudden SA is having a beef with Canada while we are fighting the bully from America at NAFTA table.

It is all way to fishy for me. Why now? Why not 3 years ago? 5? 10? Canada always critisized them about Human Rights. Why now? 

Keep you damn oil and take back all the Wahabbis you imported to Canada.

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Kittens Are Jerks
2 hours ago, odas said:

It is all way to fishy for me. Why now? Why not 3 years ago? 5? 10? Canada always critisized them about Human Rights. Why now? 

Because Mohammad bin Salman is now Crown Prince.

He's an insecure, petty tyrant posturing as a reformer.

What we did was shine a light on that, and the little hypocrite didn't like it one bit.

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GlitterRose
21 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Yes it was. But the Saudi's response is not surprising. Lashing out and penalising critics is typical behaviour.

They punished us so that they could intimidate and silence others — and so far it's working. Barely a peep from other western countries.

But we're standing by our principles and not taking anything back. and I'm glad of that.

I'm not gonna "like" that because other western countries should be standing with you. 

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and then
4 hours ago, The Caspian Hare said:

They haven't invaded a neighbor in 200 years.

So the proxy wars and terror strikes around the world don't count as dangerous aggression?  They are masters of asymmetric warfare.  I have an app on my phone that allows me to hear the warnings of incoming missiles into Israel.  It's been chiming off and on all afternoon.  Those who are firing them are funded by that country that hasn't invaded anyone in 200 years...  I agree that the Wahabi doctrines are a greater immediate danger.  That doesn't mean Iran is not a threat.

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Kittens Are Jerks

The Saudis are now demanding an apology, warning of further consequences if Canada refuses to bow and scrape.

Trudeau rebuffs Saudi call for an apology as diplomatic spat escalates
The diplomatic brawl between Canada and Saudi Arabia shows no signs of abating after the kingdom's foreign affairs minister publicly demanded that Canada withdraw its criticism of his country's human rights record — something Prime Minister Justin Trudeau refused to do Wednesday.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-fix-big-mistake-saudi-foreign-minister-1.4777438

More in depth article:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-trudeau-vows-to-continue-standing-up-for-human-rights-amid-escalating/

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Farmer77
4 hours ago, odas said:

It does look very convinient that all of a sudden SA is having a beef with Canada while we are fighting the bully from America at NAFTA table.

The more SA digs in the more this statement seems relevant. 

 

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Kittens Are Jerks
56 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

The more SA digs in the more this statement seems relevant.

Aren't Mohammad bin Salman and Jared Kushner buddies? Anyway, it's obvious the Saudis have deterred the US from speaking up. The US has also been trying to bully us  lately, so that doesn't help matters either. They think we're an easy target; that we're weak. They're wrong.

 

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Farmer77
2 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Aren't Mohammad bin Salman and Jared Kushner buddies? Anyway, it's obvious the Saudis have deterred the US from speaking up. The US has also been trying to bully us  lately, so that doesn't help matters either. They think we're an easy target; that we're weak. They're wrong.

Yeah they are.

It may be somewhat hyperbolic but reading this thread it hit me that this may just be the new world order. The US's allies are now folks like Russia, Saudi Arabia and Turkey. While traditional alliances are pushed to the wayside. 

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Kittens Are Jerks
23 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Yeah they are.

It may be somewhat hyperbolic but reading this thread it hit me that this may just be the new world order. The US's allies are now folks like Russia, Saudi Arabia and Turkey. While traditional alliances are pushed to the wayside. 

To a small degree maybe, but the US has been flip flopping all over the place lately. One day you're their pal, the next day you're not.

But other western countries haven't spoken out much either which is unfortunate because the Saudis are counting on their silence.

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The Caspian Hare
3 hours ago, and then said:

So the proxy wars and terror strikes around the world don't count as dangerous aggression?  They are masters of asymmetric warfare.  I have an app on my phone that allows me to hear the warnings of incoming missiles into Israel.  It's been chiming off and on all afternoon.  Those who are firing them are funded by that country that hasn't invaded anyone in 200 years...  I agree that the Wahabi doctrines are a greater immediate danger.  That doesn't mean Iran is not a threat.

Well it's aggressive, but they are relegated to fighting this way because they are limited conventionally. Like they say terrorism is a weapon of the weak. Iran is not as powerful as some of the hawks want us to believe.

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Solipsi Rai

Good for Canada: they call out Saudi Arabia in their horrible, terrible and archaic Islamist theocracy and human rights record, esp. when it comes to women and regards to LGBTQ people, as well a lack of freedom of religion or worship in Saudi Arabia. 

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aztek
Posted (edited)
Just now, Solipsi Rai said:

Good for Canada: they call out Saudi Arabia in their horrible, terrible and archaic Islamist theocracy and human rights record, esp. when it comes to women and regards to LGBTQ people, as well a lack of freedom of religion or worship in Saudi Arabia. 

please, get real,  Canada did not care about any of that when they struck the weapons deal with SA. it is not like SA was any different back then.

 

btw we already have a thread about it, or that one reserved exclusively for bashing America?

Edited by aztek

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