Charlottesville Remembered

[Farmer77]

5 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Isn’t Darth Rupert funding your government as well? He’s certsinly got Teflon Turnbull by the short and curlies here.

Well I dont know about direct funding but he is for sure funding the White House communication department at this point. (Foxnews) 

[Farmer77]

Flyer for the rally:

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SPEAKERS

Richard Spencer (AltRight.com, National Policy Institute)
Spencer is the most visible Alt Right figure and is usually credited with coining the term. The leader of the intellectual wing of the movement, he has been pivotal in remaking the image of White nationalism. An advocate of “peaceful ethnic cleansing” and a White ethnostate, Spencer is influenced by European unorthodox fascist trends like the New Right and Identitarian movement. Despite being firmly on the fascist wing of the movement, his untraditional influences show, for example, in his toleration of openly gay and lesbian participants. In 2011 Spencer took over the National Policy Institute (NPI) think tank and has held several conferences in Washington. A supporter of Trump at the time, at the NPI conference before the inauguration Spencer gave a speech that ended with, “Hail Trump, hail our people, hail victory!” Audience members sieg-heiled in response. In 2017, Spencer founded a new website, AltRight.com, along with others including Jason Jorjani and Swedish fascist Daniel Friberg, both of whom work with Arktos press.

AltRight.com wrote about the rally, saying “People will talk about Charlottesville as a turning point. There will be a before Charlottesville and an after Charlottesville. Will you stand up for your history, your race and your way of life?”²

 

Quote

Matthew Heimbach (Traditionalist Worker Party)

Matthew Heimbach and his Traditionalist Worker Party have been promoting the event; he is depicted here during his time in the White Student Union he founded while attending Towson University. Photo: Flickr via cool revolution.

Heimbach has founded and led several groups in succession: a Youth for Western Civilization chapter and a White Students Union (both at Towson University in Maryland), and then the Traditionalist Youth Network and its outgrowth, the Traditionalist Worker Party. He is one of the three leaders of the racist umbrella group the Nationalist Front, and is a member of the neoconfederate League of the South. Now twenty-six, Heimbach was the bright young thing of the White Nationalist movement before the Alt Right, and despite his orientation towards more traditional neonazi and KKK groups, he portrays himself as a prominent figure in the Alt Right. He is a tireless networker, with links to groups like Greece’s neonazi Golden Dawn party, but is also a controversial figure. He had been feuding with Richard Spencer, but this apparently ended in April 2017 when Heimbach came to Alabama’s Auburn University to help protect a talk Spencer gave. In July 2017 Heimbach plead guilty to disorderly conduct for attacking a black woman at a March 2016 Trump campaign rally in Louisville, Kentucky.³

Mike Enoch (The Right Stuff)

Enoch (real name: Mike Peinovich) runs The Right Stuff, a podcast platform which includes the Daily Shoah show. The Right Stuff acts as middle-ground between the intellectual and juvenile trolling wings of the Alt Right. Enoch appeared with Nationalist Front groups at the April 2017 rally in Pikeville, Kentucky, and was at the May rally in Charlottesville. He is also on the Board of Directors of the Foundation for the Marketplace of Ideas. Enoch is credited with popularizing the racist neologism “dindus” as well as the antisemitic “echoes” symbol (where three parentheses are placed around names of people thought to be Jewish). Vehemently antisemitic, when he was doxed in January 2017 it was revealed he lived in New York’s wealthy Upper East Side neighborhood—with his Jewish wife.⁴

Michael Hill (League of the South)

Hill is the founder and leader of the neoconfederate League of the South. A former professor, he has the led the group from having a base of support from pro-Southern academics into a racist group with paramilitary elements. Hill is also one of the three leaders of the Nationalist Front. He will be the only person speaking at Unite the Right with a PhD.⁵

Augustus Invictus (Fraternal Order of Alt-Knights, American Guard)

Invictus is a Florida lawyer who ran in the 2016 Libertarian Party primary for senate, hoping to take Marco Rubio’s seat. Invictus is a Thelemite (occultists in the tradition of Aleister Crowley), and the press has a had a field day with that fact that he admits to sacrificing a goat and drinking its blood. As a lawyer, Invictus defended Marcus Faella of the American Front, a Third Positionist skinhead group whose Florida chapter was arrested and charged with illegal paramilitary training; American Front members have hosted and attended Invictus’s talks in the Pacific Northwest. He has floated into Alt Right circles and, although he denies being a white supremacist, he is unusually open about his willingness to work with fascists. He is a member of the American Guard, a Midwest-based Alt Right group that accepts open White nationalists while claiming the group itself are “constitutional nationalists.” He also helped Based Stickman form the Fraternal Order of the Alt Knights—a group designed to engage in fights at demonstrations, and who are affiliated with the Proud Boys.⁶

Baked Alaska

Baked Alaska takes to Twitter to promote the rally.

Tim “Treadstone” Gionet, aka “Baked Alaska,” is a former Buzzfeed social media strategist who has moved towards antisemitism, Islamophobia, and White nationalism. He was Milo Yiannopoulos’s tour manager in 2016, but was uninvited to the Alt Lite “Deploraball”—held in Washington, DC the night before Trump’s inauguration—for his antisemitic tweets. Baked Alaska apologized, but has since attacked Alt Lite livestreamer Laura Loomer using blatant antisemitism, and now promotes White supremacist ideas such as “the 14 words” and “White genocide” on Twitter.⁷

Pax Dickinson

The most commercially successful of the crowd, Dickinson worked at Business Insider until his misogynistic tweets forced his departure. He later worked at Wesearchr, a Far Right funding platform. After a fallout there, he announced that he is starting Counter.Fund, a new Far Right crowdfunding site. However, the revelation that Peter Belau, the site’s “first High Council appointee” is Jewish, has caused neonazi stalwart Billy Roper to denounce the Unite the Right gathering.⁸

Christopher Cantwell

One of the minor league speakers tapped early on, Cantwell hosts the Radical Agenda podcast. He had worked with the Cop Block project, before he—like an number of Alt Right members—moved from libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism into the Alt Right and sympathy with fascists. In a recent interview, Cantwell said “let’s ****ing gas the kikes and have a race war.”⁹

Johnny Monoxide

The least-known of the speakers, Monoxide (aka Johnny Ramondetta) is a White nationalist livestreamer who has run different podcasts. Living in Berkeley, California, Monoxide has livestreamed Identity Evropa events.¹⁰

LEGAL SUPPORT

Foundation for the Marketplace of Ideas, Inc.

Led by Kyle Bristow, this Michigan-based legal non-profit was formed in 2016. He claims it is “quickly becoming the legal muscle behind the alt-right movement.” In April, Bristow successfully forced Auburn University to host Richard Spencer’s talk. More recently, Bristow has tried to block the Charlottesville city government from moving the location of Unite the Right out of a small park in the downtown area. The group’s board of directors include Alt Right activist Mike Enoch; William Johnson, the chairman of the White nationalist American Freedom Party; and James Edwards, who runs the White nationalist Political Cesspool radio show.¹¹

 

 

 

[ExpandMyMind]

After the case Farmer just made I'd usually say 'case closed, pack up, go home', but people have been so determined to defend this rally and the white supremacists that I doubt they'll accept it for what it was. 

Trump said there were good people on both sides and with that being probably the worst, most idiotic and damaging statement he's made since becoming President, they have no alternative but to defend him.

If they publically accept that he thinks there are some decent white supremacists, then it makes it impossible for them to support him - publically at least.

Edited August 11, 2018 by ExpandMyMind

[RoofGardener]

5 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

After the case Farmer just made I'd usually say 'case closed, pack up, go home', but people have been so determined to defend this rally and the white supremacists that I doubt they'll accept it for what it was. 

Trump said there were good people on both sides and with that being probably the worst, most idiotic and damaging statement he's made since becoming President, they have no alternative but to defend him.

If they publically accept that he thinks here are some decent white supremacists, then it makes it impossible for them to support him - publically at least.

The President made his comment in light of the information available to him at the time  

[ExpandMyMind]

12 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

The President made his comment in light of the information available to him at the time  

I assume he has walked it back then, and since condemned the white supremacist March? Nope, not really. Took him 2 days of intense public pressure, including bipartisan condemnation from politicians who basically all said something like:

Quote

"If you're showing up to a Klan rally, you're probably a racist or a bigot," said Rep. Will Hurd, R-Tex., said on CNN.

 Two days to say 'Nazis are bad', but still didn't walk back his assertion that not all of the people marching in the racist, white supremacist march were bad people. 

Edit - wait, were you being sarcastic?

Edited August 11, 2018 by ExpandMyMind

[Farmer77]

Just now, ExpandMyMind said:

Edit - wait, were you being sarcastic?

Dear God I hope so. 

 

[Myles]

12 hours ago, OverSword said:

You're high:

Link

 

The unpalatable truth is that the nazi's had a legal right and a permit for their gathering and the counter protesters had no right to be there.  That does not justify anyone running a car through a crowd.

It was a bad and sad situation.   A group of people got a permit and attempted to have their rally.   Another group of people angrily protested the rally.   1 person was needlessly killed.   This event should shine poorly on both groups.  

[Farmer77]

12 hours ago, OverSword said:

 

The unpalatable truth is that the nazi's had a legal right and a permit for their gathering and the counter protesters had no right to be there.  That does not justify anyone running a car through a crowd.

Thats just not true,  the counter protesters also had a permit 

Donald Trump wrong that Charlottesville counter-protesters didn't have a permit

Quote

The Washington Post Fact Checker published a document in an earlier fact-check showing that counter-protesters had indeed acquired an official permit for Saturday, when the Unite the Right march was scheduled.

The permit was issued to Walt Heinecke, an associate professor of educational research, statistics and evaluation at the University of Virginia’s Curry School of Education. The "special events certificate of approval" for a public demonstration at two parks in Charlottesville, McGuffey Park and Justice Park. Those are located within one and two blocks, respectively, of Emancipation Park, the location of a Robert E. Lee statue and the destination for the Unite the Right march. The certificate covers Saturday, Aug. 12, from 9 a.m. to 7 p.m.

 

Edited August 11, 2018 by Farmer77

[Farmer77]

3 minutes ago, Myles said:

A group of people got a permit and attempted to have their rally.  

Two groups had permits, see above 

[Farmer77]

Here is a direct link to the counter protester's permit for August 12th 2017 

2017 Public Demonstration Unity and Love Free Speech August 12 2017Certificate of Approval

[ExpandMyMind]

2 minutes ago, Myles said:

It was a bad and sad situation.   A group of people got a permit and attempted to have their rally.   Another group of people angrily protested the rally.   1 person was needlessly killed.   This event should shine poorly on both groups.  

Except one of those sets of people were natives of the town that was invaded. It wasn't a 'group' in the organised sense. It was mainly residents of the town who just turned up to oppose a thing that every human being should turn up to oppose. 

Again, it is astounding that there are people trying to put these two sets of protesters in the same group. 

**** me man, you're supposed to angrily protest Nazis, the KKK and white supremacists. On what plane of existence does someone live where that's not the case? Are you guys X-posting from The Man in the High Castle universe or something?

[ExpandMyMind]

8 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Thats just not true,  the counter protesters also had a permit 

Donald Trump wrong that Charlottesville counter-protesters didn't have a permit

One application was from

Quote

Walt Heinecke, an associate professor of educational research, statistics and evaluation at the University of Virginia’s Curry School of Education

The other was from a Klan member. That says it all right there when trying to compare these two sides.

This discussion shouldn't even have begun. It should not be a controversial topic, but for some reason a whole bunch of people seem intent on defending racists because 'they had a permit!'.

 

[Farmer77]

Just now, ExpandMyMind said:

The other was from a Klan member. That says it all right there when trying to compare these two sides.

This discussion shouldn't even have begun. It should not be a controversial topic, but for some reason a whole bunch of people seem intent on defending racists because 'they had a permit!'.

Agreed I'm sitting here biting the absolute hell out of my tongue trying to not be hyperbolic but damn man, put politely this does not shine a good light on the future for American society. 

[Myles]

55 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Two groups had permits, see above 

Good to know.   Both had permits.  

I just prefer to ignore KKK folks.   Why give them the publicity they crave.  

[Myles]

1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

This discussion shouldn't even have begun. It should not be a controversial topic, but for some reason a whole bunch of people seem intent on defending racists because 'they had a permit!'.

 

I will defend racists, sexists, republicans, democrats, gay people, straight people and anyone else who chooses to assemble.   I will not join them, I will not support them.   However, I also do not support protesting a group that is protesting another group.  

In substance, I side with the locals who were against the racists that came to town.   I would not support them escalating the situation as they did.  

The driver of the vehicle is to blame for this death though.  

[Agent0range]

Unite the Right 2 is taking place basically on Trump's front lawn.  What are the odds he criticizes them less than NFL players?  We shall see.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/08/10/washington-d-c-prepares-charlottesville-white-nationalist-rally/888287002/

[Agent0range]

2 hours ago, Myles said:

Good to know.   Both had permits.  

I just prefer to ignore KKK folks.   Why give them the publicity they crave.  

They were ignored, for many years.  But, like ignoring an infection, it festers and grows silently.  I think white supremacists are larger in numbers now than they have been in a long time.

[Myles]

1 minute ago, Agent0range said:

They were ignored, for many years.  But, like ignoring an infection, it festers and grows silently.  I think white supremacists are larger in numbers now than they have been in a long time.

I disagree.   Through media and social media, perhaps it seems that way.   I still think ignoring idiots is the better way.   Like the flat Earth idiots.   The numbers grow as exposure is given to them.   

Let's not give them publicity.

[Gromdor]

2 minutes ago, Myles said:

I disagree.   Through media and social media, perhaps it seems that way.   I still think ignoring idiots is the better way.   Like the flat Earth idiots.   The numbers grow as exposure is given to them.   

Let's not give them publicity.

I think the internet is responsible for the boom in things like white supremacists and flat earthers.  It's the perfect medium for them to meet, gather, discuss, recruit, and advertise from.  Look at Al Qaeda and ISIS for example.  They did a lot of recruiting with the internet.

[Agent0range]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

I disagree.   Through media and social media, perhaps it seems that way.   I still think ignoring idiots is the better way.   Like the flat Earth idiots.   The numbers grow as exposure is given to them.   

Let's not give them publicity.

That allows them to recruit, not seem larger.  Ever hear of Fortnite?  It's a huge game right now, and white supremacists are using it to recruit.  The amount of hate speech I hear from kids when my son is playing Xbox is baffling.  The ability to hate without exposing yourself is what I think is making it grow.  

https://nypost.com/2018/07/02/former-neo-nazi-says-white-supremacists-use-fortnite-to-recruit-kids/

[Myles]

1 minute ago, Agent0range said:

That allows them to recruit, not seem larger.  Ever hear of Fortnite?  It's a huge game right now, and white supremacists are using it to recruit.  The amount of hate speech I hear from kids when my son is playing Xbox is baffling.  The ability to hate without exposing yourself is what I think is making it grow.  

https://nypost.com/2018/07/02/former-neo-nazi-says-white-supremacists-use-fortnite-to-recruit-kids/

We don't need to add to the cause.   Ignore is the best way to handle small fringe groups. 

 

[Agent0range]

2 minutes ago, Myles said:

We don't need to add to the cause.   Ignore is the best way to handle small fringe groups. 

 

Eh..agree to disagree.

[Gromdor]

2 minutes ago, Myles said:

We don't need to add to the cause.   Ignore is the best way to handle small fringe groups. 

 

I dunno, in my experience ignoring a problem just let it fester and grow.  The moderators here keep everything civil and clean, but it hides the scope of the ugliness that is out there.  If you go to other mediums- heck even the comment section on news outlets, you get a truer view of the extent of hate that exists.  If you ignored it all and just came here for instance, you would think the world is a lot nicer than what it really is. 

[Michelle]

Donald Trump tweets message of unity on anniversary of right wing rally

US PRESIDENT Donald Trump has tweeted a message of peace as the nation marks the anniversary of deadly unrest triggered by a neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/donald-trump-tweets-message-of-unity-on-anniversary-of-right-wing-rally/news-story/b9e2b2be3136655bcd557e7bf06cc375

In response to a post. I know it won't be enough for some people but....

[Farmer77]

47 minutes ago, Michelle said:

Donald Trump tweets message of unity on anniversary of right wing rally

US PRESIDENT Donald Trump has tweeted a message of peace as the nation marks the anniversary of deadly unrest triggered by a neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/donald-trump-tweets-message-of-unity-on-anniversary-of-right-wing-rally/news-story/b9e2b2be3136655bcd557e7bf06cc375

In response to a post. I know it won't be enough for some people but....

Too little too late but I do appreciate the effort.