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RabidMongoose

Religion Deeper Meanings

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lightly

I've always wondered if good or evil can exist without spirituality of some sort.     .?.  

What difference does it make how we treat one another,  or hurt each other's  feelings  , if we are just blobs of atoms with no spiritual connections to each other ?

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Scudbuster
On 8/17/2018 at 8:12 PM, Mr Walker said:

  

 The bible is actually a series of social laws and rules designed to construct a safe, stable, and sustainable society.

It then introduces a god to give authority to those rules and laws and to make people more likely to obey them  But the rules and laws (apart from the ones to do with worship)  would have been the same in an entirely secular society of that era,  because they went to the economic and social needs of the society of the time.  

But see MW, that's just it - they introduced a "god" in their efforts to gain power and control, something to be feared and have to cow-down to.

If they succeed, presto, "we" have power, we have control, and all the spoils that go along with that. They had no way to impose a physical force, no guns, tanks, rockets, bombs etc- so control of the minds was their only hope- impose some all powerful deity on the people and we are home free. Human nature at it's worst. 

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Pagels Price 1
On 8/16/2018 at 12:04 PM, RabidMongoose said:

Religion Deeper Meaning(s)

Speaking of profound, several ancient Christian groups, such as the Borborites, Carpocratians, Euchites, etc., 'partied' "...like it's 1999." But, they all switched to a new god (Christ's real "Father," a totally unknown god and absolutely NOT the demiurge) before having a great time of their lives.

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Pagels Price 1
On 8/25/2018 at 11:35 AM, lightly said:

I've always wondered if good or evil can exist without spirituality of some sort.     .?. 

 

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XenoFish

We have something called mirror neurons, that allow us to mimic behavior. We learn 'good and evil'. Which really comes down to pleasure or pain.

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Mr Walker
6 hours ago, Scudbuster said:

But see MW, that's just it - they introduced a "god" in their efforts to gain power and control, something to be feared and have to cow-down to.

If they succeed, presto, "we" have power, we have control, and all the spoils that go along with that. They had no way to impose a physical force, no guns, tanks, rockets, bombs etc- so control of the minds was their only hope- impose some all powerful deity on the people and we are home free. Human nature at it's worst. 

lol 

I've never subscribed to that point of view even as an atheist 

I agree that law makers often create an authority  figure to give more power to their laws.

Human cognition thinks in a special way when confronted with any authority figure. from a parent to a king or queen,  president,  a superior at work or a god.  However this is not a bad thing in that many humans require coercion and enforcement to obey laws and rules to be cooperative and socially responsible 

You are just as constrained by civil laws today as you ever were by church laws  The point is that when people believe something in their heart, they obey it from inside rather than for external enforcement  

First, humans need some sort of faith or belief. We construct our own from infancy 

Thus shaping these predispositions into one social norm for one religion is a  sensible political move.  Some problems arise  

When two religious beliefs conflict (but this is the same as two nations conflicting

When a religion either begins, or becomes, destructive and enslaving, rather  than liberating and empowering 

When a religion is forced onto a people, against their own beliefs or non beliefs 

While religion can be used, like  nationalism, to  control people, that is not its original purpose, nor its prime purpose, nor why it evolved.

Sociologists and anthropologists believe it evolved to allow bigger groups of peole with competing interests to live together and build together united in one belief  Thus, things like irrigation or major building projects were only made possible by a uniting religious belief  

Take awy religion from, human history and we, and the world, would be much, much poorer . 

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Mr Walker
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

We have something called mirror neurons, that allow us to mimic behavior. We learn 'good and evil'. Which really comes down to pleasure or pain.

Human self awareness means we can actually recognise good and evil,  by predicting the outcomes of any act or behaviour.   We know when we  will hurt or do harm, and so we know what is evil We know when we are constructive and creative and so we know  good.   It is not a sensory balance, but an intellectual one,  of which only humans are capable. 

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Mr Walker
On 19/08/2018 at 4:43 AM, MysticWolf said:

Problem is, they don't.

Most parents do, but like all things it requires learning and modelling if you are never loved and respected as a child, it is harder to learn to love and respect your children   As families break down and inter generational skills and knowledge are lost, many parents never learn good parenting skills  Some never even learn how to love. . 

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Scudbuster
10 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

lol 

I've never subscribed to that point of view even as an atheist 

MW - I think you woefully underestimate the human trait of greed and desiring control over others.

 

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Mr Walker
17 hours ago, Scudbuster said:

MW - I think you woefully underestimate the human trait of greed and desiring control over others.

We tend to see in others the qualities we see in ourselves.

Not saying you are greedy and power hungry, but I am not, and i do not see humans as basically so, because i judge them to be like me.

All a man needs is control over self to be happy and prosperous, and all we need is shelter,  reasonable health,  food and water,  and a purpose, in order to be  fully functional  

There is a lot of materialism in the modern world which will destroy us if left unchecked, but i think this is how modern humans are indoctrinated to be by the sort of society we live in ,and our past excess of resources. That can, and will, be turned around by education, and a diminishing of those resources  

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Scudbuster
7 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

We tend to see in others the qualities we see in ourselves.

Not saying you are greedy and power hungry, but I am not, and i do not see humans as basically so, because i judge them to be like me.

All a man needs is control over self to be happy and prosperous, and all we need is shelter,  reasonable health,  food and water,  and a purpose, in order to be  fully functional  

There is a lot of materialism in the modern world which will destroy us if left unchecked, but i think this is how modern humans are indoctrinated to be by the sort of society we live in ,and our past excess of resources. That can, and will, be turned around by education, and a diminishing of those resources  

 I'm not even remotely greedy and power hungry- just the opposite matter of fact.

A huge segment of society doesn't view things as you and I do- power, greed, corruption, graft, etc. and crime is normal business to them. These human traits exist now, and they existed eons ago when everyone was trying to figure out what all this was about. So that's how the bible got written - on a foundation of greed, ignorance, and a lust for power and influence. 

 

 

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MysticWolf
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Scudbuster said:

 I'm not even remotely greedy and power hungry- just the opposite matter of fact.

A huge segment of society doesn't view things as you and I do- power, greed, corruption, graft, etc. and crime is normal business to them. These human traits exist now, and they existed eons ago when everyone was trying to figure out what all this was about. So that's how the bible got written - on a foundation of greed, ignorance, and a lust for power and influence. 

 

 

A testament to malignant narcissism.

200x0w.jpg

Edited by MysticWolf

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Mr Walker
On 28/08/2018 at 11:10 PM, Scudbuster said:

 I'm not even remotely greedy and power hungry- just the opposite matter of fact.

A huge segment of society doesn't view things as you and I do- power, greed, corruption, graft, etc. and crime is normal business to them. These human traits exist now, and they existed eons ago when everyone was trying to figure out what all this was about. So that's how the bible got written - on a foundation of greed, ignorance, and a lust for power and influence. 

 

 

I agree with all but your conclusion.

I believe the bible was an exploration of the dichotomy between human spiritualism and materialism, and pointed out the dangers of a dominance of materialism.

  The bible explains how we can free ourselves from those traits within ourselves, but also how to deal with them in other people.   It liberates us, by explaining that ,ultimately, all power and responsibility lies with us, not in others  

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