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Poll: choose your religious experience...


Carlos Allende

Poll: choose your religious experience...  

30 members have voted

  1. 1. Poll: choose your religious experience...

    • Meeting with Jesus / Messiah
    • Joan of Arc style visitation
    • Tunnel of Light Near Death Experience
    • Philip K Dick style freakout
    • Transcendence through meditation
    • Other (specify)


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1 minute ago, GlitterRose said:

So for the Thelemites and people who are influenced by them, it's magick. 

Which means its some serious *****!

 

But back on track...

I responded to the OP poll with "other"

Ideally, I would like to experience what "perfection" claims: I would love to have god poof onto my couch, and spend the day picking his brains. Forget all the "why am I here? what is my purpose?" bushwa, I'd ask the hardball questions, like:

1- WTF were you thinking??? Why not just say that owning people was a bad thing?

2 - If the Israelites were your 'chosen' people, why not give them a land of their own? Why, in Your name, did they have to slaughter the people already living there?

3 - And WHY, in the 7 Hells, would you allow people to use you as an excuse to commit atrocities??? 

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I think when people question themselves, it's a good thing. 

I actually find it more spiritually enlightened that Xeno wants to check himself to make sure he's not falling into some ego trap, than I do when someone claims to have the One Truth...and everyone who doesn't believe it is a fail.

 

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5 hours ago, XenoFish said:

So people not agreeing with your every word are "closed minded". You do not answer questions at all, only repeating the same thing over and over. You haven't really added anything to this topic. Except insulting people more or less. Individuals with your attitude are the one's who make people jaded towards religions, spirituality, or some form of faith.

Maybe we should talk to the squirrel.

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10 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Alan Moore is almost as bad, but he's more grounded than Morrison. I mean 5th dimensional alien gods. Wait....reminds me of someone on here....but who???:lol:

There is only the one  "dimension" :) 

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10 hours ago, Piney said:

So why the Lovecraft picture? 

Love craft may have adopted something similar,but that is an ancient pictograph  of the Assyrian tree of life. 

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9 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Okay quick question. What's the point? I mean of a spiritual experience....what exactly is useful about having one? I mean the crazy guy down the street who talks to squirrels isn't exactly having a one on one with god.

It helps you gain a deeper psychological perspective into your own nature, and your connection to the world around you The more you understand anything the more competent you become in anything, and that includes self. .   Understanding self and nature is the first step required in shaping and directing yourself to be all that you can be. 

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So, yet another thread concerning religion and spirituality that has drawn more skeptics and unbelievers to it than it has believers and enthusiasts. There's a topic that deserves a thread of it's own. Reminds of all the PlayStation fans who have a compulsive need to haunt Xbox forums. 

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9 hours ago, Piney said:

I don't even show visible anger. Most of the time I'm actually not. Positive reinforcement.  Christians are such barbarians with that spare the rod crap....

Punishment should never be given in anger but a parent who never punishes their children cannot truly love them and be trying to teach them  to control their language behaviour etc  While a variety of punishments can be used including isolation  removal of privileges etc.

   physical pain is an effective enhancer of learning   (so is pleasure, as a reward for appropriate behaviour) and has been shown to be less psychologically damaging in the long term than non physical punishments eg a child will hardly ever  be emotionally upset by a  mild justified physical punishment, but may be scarred for a long time by psychological consequences like withdrawal of  affection or attention.

(I am speaking of punishments which do not leave a lasting mark, let alone do any physical damage, and are administered calmly as part of a process that also explains why the punishment is given and what outcomes are expected)    

True child abuse is failure to effectively teach a child society's  rules, and how to have the self discipline to follow them, and self regulate their behaviour to be safe and appropriate. .  That sets a child up for a disastrous life as an adult. 

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9 hours ago, Piney said:

It wasn't a "tree like" entity....:lol:

Not sure what else it was supposed to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_life

The tree of life is a widespread myth (mytheme) or archetype in the world's mythologies, related to the concept of sacred tree more generally,[1] and hence in religious and philosophical tradition.

The expression tree of life was used as a metaphor for the phylogenetic tree of common descent in the evolutionary sense in a famous passage by Charles Darwin (1872).[2]

The tree of knowledge, connecting to heaven and the underworld, and the tree of life, connecting all forms of creation, are both forms of the world tree or cosmic tree,[3] and are portrayed in various religions and philosophies as the same tree.[

 

The Assyrian tree of life was represented by a series of nodes and criss-crossing lines. It was apparently an important religious symbol, often attended to in Assyrian palace reliefs by human or eagle-headed winged genies, or the King, and blessed or fertilized with bucket and cone. Assyriologists have not reached consensus as to the meaning of this symbol. The name "Tree of Life" has been attributed to it by modern scholarship; it is not used in the Assyrian sources. In fact, no textual evidence pertaining to the symbol is known to exist.

The Epic of Gilgamesh is a similar quest for immortality. In Mesopotamian mythology, Etana searches for a 'plant of birth' to provide him with a son. This has a solid provenance of antiquity, being found in cylinder seals from Akkad(2390–2249 BCE).

220px-Urartu_Helmet_Fragment_2~.jpg
 
The Urartian tree of life

In ancient Urartu, the tree of life was a religious symbol and was drawn on walls of fortresses and carved on the armor of warriors. The branches of the tree were equally divided on the right and left sides of the stem, with each branch having one leaf, and one leaf on the apex of the tree. Servants stood on each side of the tree with one of their hands up as if they are taking care of the tree.

 

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13 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Love craft may have adopted something similar,but that is an ancient pictograph  of the Assyrian tree of life. 

Nothing Assyrian about it, save for, perhaps, a vague resemblance. That's an illustration of a Great Old One, Alien masters of the world before man evolved, encountered by the protagonist of his story, At The Mountains of Madness, in their ancient, ice covered city in Antarctica.   

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2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Nothing Assyrian about it, save for, perhaps, a vague resemblance. That's an illustration of a Great Old One, Alien masters of the world before man evolved, encountered by the protagonist of his story, At The Mountains of Madness, in their ancient, ice covered city in Antarctica.   

i bow to your superior wisdom, oh master of the grasshoppers. :) 

However it does pre-exist any Lovecraftian literature by some millenia. 

Edited by Mr Walker
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9 hours ago, freetoroam said:

I do not pity you for what you claim, although i find it sad that god is the only thing of value in your life..

If it helps you cope with life, thats fine by me, but you can not pity me,  i do not need to believe in a god to help me through life.

it is a bit hard to comment on what you need or don't need if you haven't tried it. I mean i know i don't need alcohol or drugs but a t least I gave them a go  :)  You don't know how amazing your life might be if you were high on god hormones 24/7 . :) 

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Just now, Mr Walker said:

i bow to your superior wisdom, oh master of the grasshoppers. :) 

However it does pre-exist any Lovecraftian literature by some millenia. 

That's an alien, not a tree of life and the bas relief you posted resembles it no more than does a real tree and my expertise is without question. I've been a Lovecraft fan for half a century and own copies of every story he wrote.

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8 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Then god is a mental construct that you have created which generates a visual hallucination. Seems you've spent a great deal of time cultivating such an idea, has it narrowed your view on the rest of us, considering how you "pity us". Even though it comes off condescending.

or he/she, is factually correct. 

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7 hours ago, XenoFish said:

No. I will not stick to this topic. You keep claiming a physical god exist. It's an experience that you have seemingly continuously having. Since god visits you in physical form, then you can present the first ever evidence for god's existence. You could literally change the world with a spiritual fact. Why not prove it and end all the debates once and for all? If you can not or unwilling to do such a thing, then your sole existence on this forum is to preach to everyone. You keep playing that victim card when you get called out on things. Just start answering stuff. I honestly think you are the troll in this situation.

Let us see what you can do, if and when god manifests to you.  The experience is not quite what you seem to think, and if, for example, i took a photo of god manifesting, and published it, what would YOU see? 

Perfection is right Those of us on here who present an alternative pov and experience are CONSTANTLY attacked in every way, and it is often suggested that, not only are we lying or crazy, but we should not present our experiencesm  as if we have no right to, because others find them unbelievable 

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8 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Yes, life is about experiences. And religious experiences are entirely subjective and only meaningful to the individual having them. Not everyone, nor does everyone care. Religious/spiritual thoughts trigger the brains reward system. You get high off the holy dopamine god. Plus whatever conscious or unconscious expectations you have will dictate your perception of reality. Which is why a lot of individual can "see" god in mundane things. To put it blunt, belief dictates your subjective experience of reality. 

If that belief makes you happy, and  brings you comfort, then who am I to set you straight  :) 

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7 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Well, when a person defines questioning as "attacking"....

 

This particular individual has chosen the role of martyr, claiming that they are being persecuted by us eeevil atheists, all the while, refusing to answer any questions put to her, but managing to be insulting, rude, and condescending while maintaining the role of victim. I have lost track of the number of insulting comments she has made against non-believers.

I, as a non-believer in gods, like to think that if some celestial being decided to visit me and reveal life altering information to me, that being would also inform me of the best way to disseminate this information and tell me what the purposes of these visitations were.

 

Instead, all we get is a vitriolic stream of verbal abuse, thinly disguised as 'revelation'. I've said it before, and will say it again: Perfection is a troll, and mostly likely a sock of an old, banned "friend".

Perfection has done a good job of this, using her own revelations and experiences but she is attacked for it   i agree she is a bit judgemental but in many ways tha t comes with caring about others and wanting the best for them.

  Perfection actually does a good job of describing the nature of god and how an individual can  connect to god.

Perfection explains what this is like and how it empowers and transforms a person  yet may people are in denial and chose ot disbelieve the whole thing and attack each detailed encounter she describes as impossible.  Perfection HAS been explaining what god had asked her to do and what she is NOT required to do and it is much the same as what god expects of me;ie  tell my story as truthfully as i can and explain that a connection to god is available to anyone and is not connected to any relgion or church or faith It is NOT a requirement to prove anything to anyone as long as we have sufficient proofs to know ourselves, what is real and what is not      

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22 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

That's an alien, not a tree of life and the bas relief you posted resembles it no more than does a real tree and my expertise is without question. I've been a Lovecraft fan for half a century and own copies of every story he wrote.

I thought you were joking I simply googled  the origin of the image presented and it came back as the tree of life.

It is a common and well known image among historians  Maybe we were looking at difernt images.  

 

i was referring to this one presented by perfection

 

7eae08bd6006.jpgth

 

The one below is not lovecraftian originally, either, it is part of a mosaic tablet discovered by admiral bird in the antarctic.

 oOYjDXN.png

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Just now, Mr Walker said:

I thought you were joking I simply googled  the origin of the image presented and it came back as the tree of life.

It is a common and well known image among historians  Maybe we were looking at difernt images.  

All of Lovecraft's aliens are non anthropomorphic and if you search Great Old Ones, that picture is there, too. It's hard to illustrate them from his descriptions, they're so bizarre. Here's another one, more realistic--if such a thing is possible.

14957770._SX540_.jpg

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7 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

All of Lovecraft's aliens are non anthropomorphic and if you search Great Old Ones, that picture is there, too. It's hard to illustrate them from his descriptions, they're so bizarre. Here's another one, more realistic--if such a thing is possible.

14957770._SX540_.jpgoOYjDXN.png

ah yes see above Looks like Lovecraft copied the mosaic panel found by admiral bird 

Admiral Bird with a discovered mosaic fragment from the Antarctic circle. It looks very familiar to the 'Fish God' worshipped by the Dogon Tribe in Africa. The Japanese and the Sumerians also worshipped a Fish God.

it would have been well publicised about the time Lovecraft was writing 

On the other hand maybe the photo is a fake and was a publicity stunt for the novel :) 

 

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4 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

ah yes see above Looks like Lovecraft copied the mosaic panel found by admiral bird 

Admiral Bird with a discovered mosaic fragment from the Antarctic circle. It looks very familiar to the 'Fish God' worshipped by the Dogon Tribe in Africa. The Japanese and the Sumerians also worshipped a Fish God.

it would have been well publicised about the time Lovecraft was writing 

 

No such thing ever occurred, Mr. Walker--that's total fiction and the fellow in the photo is made to look like HPL, himself. Where did you ever read such nonsense?                                                        

                                                                  c5f3b1f0a4a3f5195942127181cdf5a5.jpg                                 

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1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

No such thing ever occurred, Mr. Walker--that's total fiction and the fellow in the photo is made to look like HPL, himself. Where did you ever read such nonsense?                                                        

                                                                  c5f3b1f0a4a3f5195942127181cdf5a5.jpg                                 

see what i added :)  i agree that  its  historicity seems to be very doubtful That was the first time i encountered the photo, so i began googling it, Not much detail is available    I imagine perfection had also seen it and used it as an example of the tree of life.

You are right about the resemblance to Lovecraft    There was a lot of this conflation of fact and fiction going on  at the time, including stories about Birds search for a hollow through the  earth  at the poles.

 

 image.jpeg.f34b7cb2e8f8a09d0587748410dd19a5.jpeg

Bird looked like this around that time so there is also a resemblance to him, but i tend to agree with you  Strange there is no real back story online about this eg who what why?  

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6 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

see what i added :)  i agree that  its  historicity seems to be very doubtful That was the first time i encountered the photo, so i began googling it, Not much detail is available    I imagine perfection had also seen it and used it as an example of the tree of life.

You are right about the resemblance to Lovecraft    There was a lot of this conflation of fact and fiction going on  at the time, including stories about Birds search for a hollow through the  earth  at the poles.

 

 image.jpeg.f34b7cb2e8f8a09d0587748410dd19a5.jpeg

Bird looked like this around that time so there is also a resemblance to him, but i tend to agree with you  Strange there is no real back story online about this eg who what why?  

Lovecraft enthusiasts have been creating stuff like that for three quarters of a century--and you'd have to squint real hard to make Lovecraft's photoshopped image in that photo to look like Byrd.https://www.pinterest.com/Alternaterium/art-at-the-mountains-of-madness/?lp=true

 

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2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

So, yet another thread concerning religion and spirituality that has drawn more skeptics and unbelievers to it than it has believers and enthusiasts. There's a topic that deserves a thread of it's own. Reminds of all the PlayStation fans who have a compulsive need to haunt Xbox forums. 

But you're here now Hammer. That makes everything alright. 

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2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

So, yet another thread concerning religion and spirituality that has drawn more skeptics and unbelievers to it than it has believers and enthusiasts. There's a topic that deserves a thread of it's own. Reminds of all the PlayStation fans who have a compulsive need to haunt Xbox forums. 

Such a simple and obvious explanation. 

Sceptics want answers while believers think that they already have them.

The Playstation/Xbox, and similar Apple/Windows etc. are a different issue. 

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