Roswell 1947

[stereologist]

On 12/1/2018 at 12:24 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

The idea that a crashed Mogul balloon evaded military radar and sat in a field on the J. B. Foster ranch for a month is quite hard to believe. All weather balloons including Mogul had RAWIN radar reflectors on them for radar tracking purposes. The alleged crashed Mogul somehow slipped military (and civilian) radar, including nearby USAAF 509th Bomb Wing in nearby Roswell. Hard to believe.

 

Also, this: RAWIN construction

"Another subtle detail in the photos is views of the white paper backing of the foil in the various photos shows only an even white color with no evidence of expected water staining from exposure to the elements for a supposed month.  This also supports the idea that the radar target in the photos was a brand new one out of a box. "

General Ramey?? Noooooo! whoda thunk it?

And although the authors did look suspiciously of a small bundle of balloon elements including "rubber strips" being able to represent a full Mogul, they did not mention any suspicions of what it could ever be that shredded this Mogul into small strips in the FIRST place? I've posited this problem in here more than once.

And nobody wishes to express a theory about this... I don't know why!?

The Mogul theory has telling holes.

All? You say all? That's simply false. Please show us that to be the case. I know you are making this up as you make up most things you post.

Evading radar was easy especially with storms in the area.

The flying disk story is nothing but holes.

[stereologist]

On 12/1/2018 at 1:29 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

WHO WAS THAT MAN? This man is not often mentioned in Roswell incident research, yet he is more responsible than anyone for the imbroglio that ultimately became known as "Roswell". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_H._Blanchard

** snipped **

Yet this man's name is hardly mentioned at all! Colonel Blanchard *has* to be included in the list of military and civilian people that saw "disk" but no balloon. Prior to the Ramey redux of unfolded events at Roswell, the list of ranking military personnel that saw disk but no balloon is three (and likely more). The number of ranking military personnel that saw balloon?

[                           this space intentionally left blank                              ]

The balloon theory sucks.

Nothing in your list says that Colonel Blanchard saw anything. Yet you conclude he saw a particular item, something apparently small enough for Brazel to carry 7 miles to his house across the ranch.

[stereologist]

On 12/2/2018 at 3:17 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Base Commander Colonel Blanchard, soon to become 4 star General Blanchard, conferred with his head intelligence officer and a counter intelligence officer on evidences that were found in the debris field. They were convinced the evidences were that of a crashed disk.

We've all also seen the "politically correct" version of evidences found at the debris field. Sticks, rough paper, strips of rubber, tin foil laminated sheets, and tape.

What LAME BRAIN IDIOT could look at those elements and actually see "DISK"???????????  Impossible!!

This is amongst the most damning of evidences that *PROVES* that the disk theory and not the balloon theory is correct.

It WAS a disk... and then it was converted to a balloon by rewriters of history. PERIOD.

You asked "What LAME BRAIN IDIOT could look at those elements and actually see "DISK"???????????"

The answer is you.

That's a pretty obvious answer. You are the only one here trying to make a flying disk out of "Sticks, rough paper, strips of rubber, tin foil laminated sheets, and tape."

[stereologist]

On 12/2/2018 at 5:45 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

"the sky is falling" is impossible. Finding a disk is not.

Everyone being saved from the Titanic is possible. Didn't happen.

Dewey beat Truman is possible. DIdn't happen.

Finding a shredded balloon is possible. Did happen.

[lost_shaman]

5 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

I prefer the red, bolded and italicised text, personally.  So there was 'no balloon flights' of the data gathering type so no Flight '#4', but they DID launch a sono bouy in a cluster of balloons.

You quoted the text - how is it that you ignore half of the content of your own quote?  Thing is, we can argue about what wreckage of that balloon cluster and sono-bouy might look like, but when you first raised this you just blithely claimed there was no balloon flight at all (conveniently not supplying the quote, so we had to chase it down).  Clearly, there WAS a cluster of balloons and the sono-buoy.

If you'd like to discuss what information might exist about the exact constituents of that flight, and then compare it in some meaningful way with the wreckage reports, including examining the information that pins down the dates (of launch *and* of wreckage discovery and location), let's do that....

I'm all for that! But I'm going to tell you now that a Sonobuoy was not recovered on the Foster Ranch and the service flight was not a constant altitude balloon train so the wind data wouldn't place anything in the stratosphere  for hours to end up near the Foster Ranch. 

Quote

but when you first raised this you just blithely claimed there was no balloon flight at all (conveniently not supplying the quote, so we had to chase it down).  Clearly, there WAS a cluster of balloons and the sono-buoy.

Guess you think I should be sorry that you had look up evidence for yourself? Yeah I'm not really feeling that. 

I never said there wasn't a balloon launch. Crary says he launched a "regular sono buoy" in a "cluster".

 

[gostar]

The Roswell Balloon, thats a good one!

tested.com/science/space/464957-how-spot-international-space-station/

(International Space Station is Destroyed, at the "Third Revelation", a new awareness mankind will gain)

(the International Space Station is, in the path of 9/11/2001 and Flight 370, it will be the "Third Trajedy" in the recent string of events tied to multiples of figures from the "Revelation")

(Assumption the Dates are engineered, not real, to provide the statement, as to there being no outside witnesses outside of the contrivances in the account itself)

1. July 8th (7/8) ... 1947 ... 509th Operations Group *** 9/11/2001 ... 12/25/2018 ... (17 Years Difference) ... 1947, 70 Years Bridge to 2018 the 42 year division to Halley's Comet (Issac Newton's Prophecy)

2. June 14, 1947 ... 1947 (70 Years to 2017) ... 2014 (1290 days to 70th year of 2017) ... (figures of 6 for 2060 A.D. Issac Newton Prophecy

(everything will be resolved this Christmas, roughly tomorrow)

Edited December 25, 2018 by gostar

[lost_shaman]

3 hours ago, gostar said:

(International Space Station is Destroyed, at the "Third Revelation", a new awareness mankind will gain)

(the International Space Station is, in the path of 9/11/2001 and Flight 370, it will be the "Third Trajedy" in the recent string of events tied to multiples of figures from the "Revelation")

(Assumption the Dates are engineered, not real, to provide the statement, as to there being no outside witnesses outside of the contrivances in the account itself)

What on Earth are you talking about? None of this has any relation to the Roswell events! 

[lost_shaman]

On 12/23/2018 at 8:31 PM, ChrLzs said:

I prefer the red, bolded and italicised text, personally.  So there was 'no balloon flights' of the data gathering type so no Flight '#4', but they DID launch a sono bouy in a cluster of balloons.

You quoted the text - how is it that you ignore half of the content of your own quote?  Thing is, we can argue about what wreckage of that balloon cluster and sono-bouy might look like, but when you first raised this you just blithely claimed there was no balloon flight at all (conveniently not supplying the quote, so we had to chase it down).  Clearly, there WAS a cluster of balloons and the sono-buoy.

I have house guests and was distracted, so I'm revisiting this post. What you've written is either poor research on this thread or deliberately wrong on your part. I first mentioned the Balloons saying Flight # 4 never was launched in post # 273, and then immediately after that talked about the "Service flight" in post # 275! I also gave the source information "Albert Crary's" journal in those posts! 

You should probably get your facts straight before accusing me of misconduct in the future!

[ChrLzs]

On 25/12/2018 at 5:47 AM, lost_shaman said:

I'm all for that! But I'm going to tell you now that a Sonobuoy was not recovered on the Foster Ranch and the service flight was not a constant altitude balloon train so the wind data wouldn't place anything in the stratosphere  for hours to end up near the Foster Ranch.

And that claim is, at least in this thread, unsupported.  Please show / cite your evidence.  If you have elaborated with the necessary dates, times, weather reports, description & photos of debris etc, then please link to that discussion.

On 25/12/2018 at 2:18 PM, lost_shaman said:

I first mentioned the Balloons saying Flight # 4 never was launched in post # 273, and then immediately after that talked about the "Service flight" in post # 275!

Reread what I said.  Here it is AGAIN.

Quote

..when you first raised this you just blithely claimed there was no balloon flight at all (conveniently not supplying the quote, so we had to chase it down)

That is 100% accurate and correct.  You ACTUALLY started referring to this allegedly *non existent* flight #4 back here in post 226, where you stated:

Quote

Furthermore, all MOGUL balloons have been accounted for and none ever ended up near the Foster Ranch.

followed up by post 243, where you said...

Quote

Flight # 4 didn't even exist. It was abandoned due to clouds. This was documented at the time in Albert Crary's diary of the Alamogordo trip.

.. that post contains no hint that there was a service flight (EXACTLY as I said) and you conveniently gave no link to the diary.  Then it was finally in post 245 that you first acknowledged the service flight.. 

So, apart from getting your links wrong, you are flat out LYING when you say you referred to the service flight immediately.

You did no such thing.  Frankly, this ongoing misinformation is becoming really tiresome.  LS, you are clearly deliberately sprouting misinformation, and your presence here is now a liability.  It's a shame, as once upon a time you were a valuable contributor.  Now, it seems that virtually everything you claim is mixed up, or completely contradicts earlier posts.  You need to take a long hard look at yourself - I'm sick to death of cross checking these claims, most of which are now proving to be falsehoods.  And then you have the hide to take the high ground and criticise others?  Sheesh.  

[Leo Krupe]

Question: Earl stated, and his links prove, that the military used the word "disk" in describing what was found. Another (I believe it was Psyche--if not, I apologize) also used the word "disk," but in a different context. Earl won't state, but implies, that the disk is otherworldly, while Psyche says the "disk" was a radar reflector (whether it was a RAWIN or not, is irrelevant to my question).

My question is: can we trace the military nomenclature "disk" or "disc" elsewhere? Was it common for the military (any branch, anywhere) to use the term "disk" in relation to any kind of radar reflector during or prior to 1947?

What I'm trying to get at is why did they use the term "disk" to describe something as mundane as a radar reflector (which, to be honest, is not disk-shaped)? Why not "object" or some other vague term? "Disk" is a pretty specific shape.

[lost_shaman]

Here is ChrLzs AGAIN trying to dictate  to me what, when, and how I should post! This is getting ridiculous! ChrLzs why don't you try contributing to the discussion instead of nit picking at my posts?

As for the service flight it is a non-issue!!! It was NOT a constant altitude balloon train and therefore could not have made it to the Foster Ranch according to the wind data C.B. Moore used. Furthermore, there was no mention or description of a Sonobuoy recovered from the Foster Ranch, if ChrLzs wants to refute that then it is up to him to show there was as I can't prove a negative. Of course he can't do that so don't hold your breath waiting people. 

Also the summary of Flights by NYU in New Mexico in the Air Force report for June 1 - June 30 begins with Flight # 5 that was launched June 5th. In this same report we also see Albert Crary wrote a check for a recovery fee to an unnamed person on June 16th, I assume this was to Rancher Sid West who recovered Flight # 6 and called the recovery phone number on the tags they placed on the constant altitude balloon flights as none of the balloon Train equipment was classified and some of it was reusable. NYU personnel would simply go pick these balloon trains up and Albert Crary was responsible to write the checks for the recovery fees, no need at all to have a cover story for these constant altitude balloon trains. This same report says it covers successful constant altitude balloon flights and that the neoprene Meteorological balloons were inadequate  for this purpose for numerous reasons with flights only averaging 6 hours, yet C.B. Moore claimed "Flight # 4" for ten hours! So AGAIN why is it not listed in this report? It would have vastly out preformed Flight # 5 which is the first Flight listed in the June 1 - June 30 progress report. So where is Flight # 4 if it achieved constant altitude flight for 10 hours as C.B. Moore later claimed in the 1990's? 

Because it's was "cancelled due to clouds" as per Albert Crary's contemporary Journal from 1947!!! 

Then we have this golden nugget...

Quote

JULY 8 

INTELLIGENCE DIV WASHDC 

SUGGEST SAUCERS ARE RADAR TARGET FOR WEATHER OBSERVATION 

PURPOSES CONTACT COL M DUFFY SPRING LAKE NEW JERSEY FOR 

INFORMATION 

http://www.project1947.com/roswell/wkzodoc.htm

Col. M. Duffy was the first MOGUL Project Manager. Note that this message originates from the Intelligence Division out of Washington D.C. to reporter Tony Glaston. This is exactly also what Col. DuBose said, that he was directed to concoct a cover story from Gen. McMullen out of Washington D.C.. Col. Trakowski the second Project Manager for MOGUL at the time, told investigators in 1994 in the Air force Roswell report that he distinctly remembers getting a phone call from Col. Duffy in the middle of the night telling him the same thing. This is real evidence that the RADAR RAWIN cover story was meant to be a cover story directed to the Press to "cover" for the "Saucers" not for MOGUL!!! Further evidence for this is the Fact that MOGUL personnel including Maj. Prichard and Cpt. Laurence Dyvad were Photographed launching RADAR targets for the Press on July 9th at Alamogordo AAF where project MOGUL was operating in June and July and specifically states these Men were from Watson Labs Army Materiel Command!!! 

Clearly "Covering" for project MOGUL was not the intent here, "covering" for the "Discs" and "Saucers" was what was being done here!

 

[lost_shaman]

5 hours ago, Leo Krupe said:

My question is: can we trace the military nomenclature "disk" or "disc" elsewhere? Was it common for the military (any branch, anywhere) to use the term "disk" in relation to any kind of radar reflector during or prior to 1947?

What I'm trying to get at is why did they use the term "disk" to describe something as mundane as a radar reflector (which, to be honest, is not disk-shaped)? Why not "object" or some other vague term? "Disk" is a pretty specific shape.

No they did not call RADAR reflectors "Discs" or "Disks", they specifically named them (at least this type we see here that the Army used) RAWINs. This stands for RADAR WIND reflectors, the Army shortened this to RAWIN targets. The Navy had a different type in use also that were larger and a different design that they called RAYWIN targets. 

See this Navy demo for the Press using "RAYWIN" targets for the Press on July 9th. http://www.roswellproof.com/Atlanta_July9a.html Note that these are of different construction than the smaller "RAWIN" "corner reflector" targets the Army was using. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by lost_shaman

[lost_shaman]

On 12/26/2018 at 3:51 PM, ChrLzs said:

And that claim is, at least in this thread, unsupported.

And any "claim" to the contrary in any thread or blog or the Air Force reports or contemporary reports ARE non-existent or completely fabricated. You can show otherwise, then do it!

 

On 12/26/2018 at 3:51 PM, ChrLzs said:

Please show / cite your evidence.  If you have elaborated with the necessary dates, times, weather reports, description & photos of debris etc, then please link to that discussion.

No. Show one single piece of evidence that you think falsifies what I said, then we can debate that in a discussion where I will debunk your counter argument with the Facts and contemporary evidence. You can not do that and this is why you do not contribute to these discussions. 

 

On 12/26/2018 at 3:51 PM, ChrLzs said:

..when you first raised this you just blithely claimed there was no balloon flight at all (conveniently not supplying the quote, so we had to chase it down)

Talk about misinformation, I said there was No Flight # 4 and NO constant altitude balloon flights on June 3rd or June 4th. This is explicitly stated by Albert Crary in his Journal just as I said. He explicitly states the reason "due to clouds", the CAA (forerunner of the FAA) rejected a direct appeal to this restriction on the constant altitude balloon trains that they planned to fly before the NYU group went to Alamogordo AAF. 

 

On 12/26/2018 at 3:51 PM, ChrLzs said:

That is 100% accurate and correct.  You ACTUALLY started referring to this allegedly *non existent* flight #4 back here in post 226, where you stated:

Quote

Furthermore, all MOGUL balloons have been accounted for and none ever ended up near the Foster Ranch.

 

Yes and what I said is factually correct. At least for all constant altitude balloon trains that took place between May 28th and July 6th 1947 that could possibly account for the Roswell events. This is why Robert Todd and C.B. Moore originally claimed Flight # 9 was responsible but this was disproven so there was nothing left to turn to for Robert Todd and C.B. Moore except for the imaginary Flight # 4 that never was launched except in C.B. Moore's imagination. What would have been Flight # 4 was launched on July 5th and NYU labeled it Flight # 5 for whatever reason and we know it was recovered 25 miles East of Roswell. Further evidence of this is that it took days to assemble a 500 ft plus constant altitude balloon train and Albert Crary's Journal makes no mention of any of his people assembling a NEW constant altitude balloon train in that 24 hour period. Also NO constant altitude balloon trains were ever launched one after another on sequential days. Flight # 5 is described as consisting of nearly 600 feet of three nylon lobster twines "hand braided" together at 300# test, this plus adding all the equipment was not done in 24 hours, it took at least 48 hours according to Crary's Journal. We see Crary say in his Journal NYU men worked on the Constant altitude balloon train on June 1st and 2nd, he says it was ready to go on June 3rd but "cancelled" because of cloudy skies and "cancelled" again on the 4th, then flew as Flight # 5 on June 5th, then Flight # 6 was not launched until June 7th giving them roughly no less than 3 days to assemble that balloon train, 5 days if they started working on assembling Flight # 6 on June 2nd. 

Are you beginning to see how this works ChrLzs? If you want to contribute to the investigation or even this discussion you will need to learn how to do your own research like I do. Also I'm not going to just throw out a reference to everything I have to say because some of my research has taken me a lot of personal time to gather and stitch together and is IMO proprietary to me. You want me to just hand feed you everything I've got while you seemingly do no research of your own and contribute nothing other than nit pick at my posting style! LOL!

On 12/26/2018 at 3:51 PM, ChrLzs said:

followed up by post 243, where you said...

Quote

Flight # 4 didn't even exist. It was abandoned due to clouds. This was documented at the time in Albert Crary's diary of the Alamogordo trip.

.. that post contains no hint that there was a service flight (EXACTLY as I said) and you conveniently gave no link to the diary.  Then it was finally in post 245 that you first acknowledged the service flight.. 

 

I've discussed the Service Flight to DEATH for about 13 years now on ATS and on UM, ask psyche101 for UM reference. Or search my old posts. On this thread I probably didn't even come up until @psyche101 or myself mentioned it! I don't care as that's a non-issue. I honestly don't even care to discuss a lot of this stuff except with people who care and are 'savvy' enough to go find it when I tell you where to look!!! i.e. Albert Crary's Journal. Can't find that on your own when I drop the name and place in your lap? Well you probably have no business discussing this with me. 

[lost_shaman]

On 12/26/2018 at 3:51 PM, ChrLzs said:

So, apart from getting your links wrong, you are flat out LYING when you say you referred to the service flight immediately.

You did no such thing.  Frankly, this ongoing misinformation is becoming really tiresome.  LS, you are clearly deliberately sprouting misinformation, and your presence here is now a liability.  It's a shame, as once upon a time you were a valuable contributor.  Now, it seems that virtually everything you claim is mixed up, or completely contradicts earlier posts.  You need to take a long hard look at yourself - I'm sick to death of cross checking these claims, most of which are now proving to be falsehoods.  And then you have the hide to take the high ground and criticise others?  Sheesh.  

This is a pretty hardcore Ad Hominem you are throwing at me. This is your Modus Operandi though so I'm not surprised. Since you like to scour dozens of pages of threads to throw Ad Hominems, why don't you go do this all again and tell us who first mentioned the Service flight and what post? Was it me or @psyche101 or who? 

While this IMO has no relevance to the investigation or discussion, this seems to be the only type of contribution you ever seem to make so I'd like to know and as I consider it completely irrelevant I'll leave to you to go find just for my personal curiosity. While you are at it, who first mentioned Albert Crary and the Alamogordo trip? 

I'll leave the irrelevant stuff about who posted what and when to you while I continue to actually research the early UFO phenomena and the Roswell events. 

[psyche101]

On 12/25/2018 at 4:34 AM, stereologist said:

You asked "What LAME BRAIN IDIOT could look at those elements and actually see "DISK"???????????"

The answer is you.

That's a pretty obvious answer. You are the only one here trying to make a flying disk out of "Sticks, rough paper, strips of rubber, tin foil laminated sheets, and tape."

It was just common terminology in the day. In 1947 everyone had a different idea of what a disc was. The Roswell Daily Dispatch ran with this headline on the day of the press release, but due to greater detail offered, it didn't get the same attention. But it seems to indicate to me Marcel brought on the same thing according to all descriptions from the time frame. 

 

 

Two flying disks were reported found in Texas and at least one is being investigated by military officials as the total number of Texans claiming to have seen the mysterious objects passed the 50 mark yesterday. The disks were reported found on a beach near Trinity Bay, near Houston, and near Hillsboro. The Houston Chronicle said a great deal of mystery surrounded the one found near there by Norman Hargrave, a jeweler, Sunday. He first reported that he had found the aluminum disk floating near the beach while he and his wife were walking. He described it minutely, even giving an inscription he said it carried. Today he said it was all a joke, but the Chronicle, after extensive checking, said "there are some mysterious facts contained in his (Hargrave's) first report that lend credence to the tale."

Hargrave first said the disk bore this wording: "Military secret of the United States of America. Army Air Forces M4339658. Anyone damaging or revealing description or whereabouts of this missile subject to prosecution by the U.S. government. Call collect at once, LD446, Army Air Forces Denot, Spokane, Wash." He said the words "non-explosive" also were carried.

 

Project MOGUL balloons usually carried this warning notice on them in hopes of getting some equipment back for reuse. 

 

REWARD NOTICE 

This is special weather equipment Sent aloft on research by New York Univetity. 
It is important that the equipment be recovered. The finder L requested to protect 
the equipment from damage or theft. and to telegraph collect to: Mr. C. 5. Schneider. 
York University. 18lst St. & University Heights, Box 12. New York City. 
L.S.A. Phone: LUdlow 3.6310. REFER TO FLIGHT #-__________ 

A dollar ($ ) reward and reasonable reimbursement for recovery expense will be 
paid if the above instruction* are followed before September 1949. 

KEEP AWAY FROM FIRE. THERE IS KEROSENE IN THE TANK. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by psyche101

[psyche101]

On 12/25/2018 at 10:01 AM, gostar said:

The Roswell Balloon, thats a good one!

tested.com/science/space/464957-how-spot-international-space-station/

(International Space Station is Destroyed, at the "Third Revelation", a new awareness mankind will gain)

(the International Space Station is, in the path of 9/11/2001 and Flight 370, it will be the "Third Trajedy" in the recent string of events tied to multiples of figures from the "Revelation")

(Assumption the Dates are engineered, not real, to provide the statement, as to there being no outside witnesses outside of the contrivances in the account itself)

1. July 8th (7/8) ... 1947 ... 509th Operations Group *** 9/11/2001 ... 12/25/2018 ... (17 Years Difference) ... 1947, 70 Years Bridge to 2018 the 42 year division to Halley's Comet (Issac Newton's Prophecy)

2. June 14, 1947 ... 1947 (70 Years to 2017) ... 2014 (1290 days to 70th year of 2017) ... (figures of 6 for 2060 A.D. Issac Newton Prophecy

(everything will be resolved this Christmas, roughly tomorrow)

Do you have a point? Your incessant rambling is distracting and annoying. 

[psyche101]

On 12/25/2018 at 4:20 AM, stereologist said:

I've posted a video of a balloon shredding into strips. Guess you are cloe minded when it comes to the evidence.

 

Further to that, also from the aforementioned article :

The second flying disks (sic) was reported found by Bob Scott, a farmer living two and a half miles east of Hillsboro. He said the disk fell on his place Friday, and that it resembled a saucer. He said it was so bright he could not look at it very long. He said he was afraid people might believe he was "going to extremes in imagining things" and he told no one but his family until yesterday.

Then he notified O.F. Kissick and Joe Gerick, Hillsboro, who went to the field and investigated. Most of it had melted, they said. Gerick said one piece looked like tin foil, but when he picked it up, it appeared to be celluloid… 

[psyche101]

On 12/22/2018 at 11:46 AM, lost_shaman said:

Here is part of the information from Brig. Gen. DuBose 1991 affidavitt, which also supports my hypothesis that this was a counter-intelligence operation to embarrass the Press at the time when the Press was reporting every sighting report they could find.

"

(7)   The material shown in the photographs taken in Maj. Gen. Ramey's office was a weather balloon.  The weather balloon explanation for the material was a cover story to divert the attention of the press."

 

There is more than this from Brig. Gen. DuBose, but I'll have to and dig it back up as my old files have been lost. It may take a while as I'm busy in life at the moment but I'll find it. 

 

 

Does General DuBose actually state 'the material was switched" from any reliable sources? 

[gostar]

4 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Do you have a point? Your incessant rambling is distracting and annoying. 

(the Weather Balloon was a reply to answer the controversy of that day..................reasoning gives us levy that the account of the roswell balloon are genuine, as a non-man made reply, and, incomplete account)

Position 1?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_eruption_of_Mount_St._Helens

(UFO Guardian Diagram, was presented after the Eruption of Mount Saint Helens in the USA, as the answer to the incident of Roswell's Non-Manmade Weather Balloon) (Ron L. Hubbard, made a claim the answer to Roswell was the volcanoe in hawaii or south america, but in reality, the official reply was not issued.  the Roswell Space Ship is lodged in the Mount Saint Helens Volcanoe, human weapons cannot inflict damage.  a nuclear weapon is recommended) (its beyond your ability to disturb the area? as was recollected at the time of the law's pronunciation, then, you must be held to your highest ability to satisfy the law, its only a legal clause)

 

Position 2?

mysterytownusa.com/portfolio-items/area-51/area-5/?v=7516fd43adaa

owlab.co/map-of-major-us-fault-lines-fault-lines/map-of-major-us-fault-lines-fault-lines-fresh-map-major-us-fault-lines-fault-lines-fresh-map-major-us-fault/

(Roswell location in new mexico, ties right into the Mount Saint Helens area, if you follow the trajectory of the weather balloon, NOT THE TRAJECTOR OF THE CRASH.  To Mount Saint Helens, and some of this information is reported in the fault line to volcano arrangement (less accurately)

Edited December 28, 2018 by gostar

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

15 hours ago, lost_shaman said:

No they did not call RADAR reflectors "Discs" or "Disks", they specifically named them (at least this type we see here that the Army used) RAWINs. This stands for RADAR WIND reflectors, the Army shortened this to RAWIN targets. The Navy had a different type in use also that were larger and a different design that they called RAYWIN targets. 

See this Navy demo for the Press using "RAYWIN" targets for the Press on July 9th. http://www.roswellproof.com/Atlanta_July9a.html Note that these are of different construction than the smaller "RAWIN" "corner reflector" targets the Army was using. 

 

Right, this is just some people trying to make ends meet.  Strong evidence of the military making it crystal clear the the "disk" they referred to was a flying disk similar to what people of Roswell had been discussing in recent weeks was the Haut report that went out. Unlike the Roswell Daily Record, the Sacramento Bee gave quotes by Haut and it is clear what is being said.  Sacramento Bee coverage of Roswell events, July 8, 1947     

"The many rumors regarding the flying discs became a reality yesterday when the intelligence office of the 509th (atomic) Bomb Group of the 8th Air Force, Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc through the cooperation of one of the ranchers and the sheriff's office of Chaves county. 

"The flying object landed on a ranch near Roswell sometime last week. Not having phone facilities, the rancher stored the disc until such time as he was able to contact the sheriff's office, who inturn notified Jesse A. Marcel, of the 509th Bomb Group intelligence office." 
-------------------------------

We must remember that Haut is releasing a report meant to inform citizens who don't know military lingo. So even IF the military used such a term as "disk" to describe some technical component of a weather balloon, Haut would never use it in this press release, OR, put it in its proper context.

But Haut's first words where a direct quote is used are what's really telling, "The many rumors regarding the flying discs became a reality...".  Obviously, what Haut is doing is likening the RAAF recovered disk to the flying disk/s that people in town had been talking about for weeks.

It is crystal clear that Haut is reporting to the people that a "flying disk" had been recovered, not a balloon or components of a balloon.

Just HOW can three AAF officers confuse a pile of balloon bric-a-brac for a "disk", and the answer is, they cannot. There was no confusion. The RAAF found a crashed flying disk at Foster Ranch, or so they say.  You can choose not to believe them but don't try to confuse the issue by saying the trio was confused. No they weren't.

 

 

 

[gostar]

(very good question, 2019 is the year of tragedy, and it could be the year of rewards)

planetarymapping.wordpress.com/category/language-of-nomenclature/latin/page/24/

(may give genetic cleasning example in relative area, but, mars will be americanized without those genetic lines living, whatever else i don't want imposed your free to to, meaning, may have activities to look for, such as, plans for eventual outside the states cooperation, or etc, not imposing ofcourse) (the prison population's complete freedom and my autonomy in that, will cost congress and the chains of command, lives, if they are not clean, in complete freedom for all persons, or, their martian viability, as much and whenever i choose) (not that i care, but its better in their uncleanness to deal with a position they cannot undermine or avoid, or avoid the cost of their lives, in due processes) (its not your position, its my position) (things will be handled like that)

(priority in god's mercies, according to god's willingness to reach (declaration and pronunciation) is priority with moses, according to how he views was is good with man and god in his position, not for himself, so you can see how this can play out?) (the world has nothing and its suicide, god's mercies and the faithful are another issue) (in the real world of the prophets, humanity does not have a accusation against god, or against a prophet, right now this is not the real world, its the world of the conviction and its conclusion=death)

(2019 is the year of discovery and the year of trajedy ................... 2018 was consumed into nothing, as we approach the final 153 days, and the end to humanity ..................... with or without god's mercies, we are scheduled to his inevitable end, and, if by reason of the SIGN OF DIVORCE FOR THIS EARTH, then, by that reason 42 more years, but leading to that, and the population cleasning, that is not very far from now)

(Roswell isn't a finished issue, its kinda, but not the same as oak island (not same as in, third temple=spaceship, one viability at least), i say that because, all the accounts are truthful at the end of the day, there is little error, but there is a lot of controversy, and, there is more to be seen, perhaps as to what happens in 2019, either trajedy or revelation, will finally and eventually, makes things more clear)

Edited December 28, 2018 by gostar

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

FOOD FOR THOUGHT:     Let's assume for the sake of argument, that Brazel did indeed find the balloon remnants that he later claimed he found to the Roswell Daily Record on July 9 . Let's see if this assumption sets up a contradiction proving that the assumption could not be the case.

 

Brazel goes to Sheriff Wilcox and talks to him in hushed tones about finding sticks, rubber strips and tin foil on his ranch. 

Then, upon learning of this find by Brazel, Sheriff Wilcox goes to RAAF and speaks to Major Jesse Marcel about the find on the Foster Ranch that Brazel had told him of. WHY????  Of what interest are sticks, rubber strips and tin foil to an AAF intelligence officer?? This reporting to Marcel just cannot be the case for a responsible law enforcement officer.

Then, Officers Marcel and Cravitt go back to the Foster ranch with Brazel and Wilcox to see these sticks and rubber strips for themselves. Huh???   Right here we must stop and now consider that there is no way that two army officers are going to travel for 5 hours out to the Foster ranch to see sticks and rubber strips that are of no concern to them.

Proof by contradiction. Brazel did not confine his story at all to finding balloon bric-a-brac - if at all. Brazel had to tell Sheriff Wilcox something much more compelling than that, something that could be considered of a national security measure.

Brazel told Sheriff Wilcox he found a crashed disk at the foster ranch. 

 

And just for @Leo Krupe  - the UFO's were full of little green men who were trying to take over earth until their ship blew up!    Just funnin' ya,Leo. 

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

And I'd like to thank y'all for keeping the thread alive while I was away for holiday. I am sure @Dejarma and @Trelane will be thrilled!!

Fly-ya Bye-ah

[gostar]

3 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

And I'd like to thank y'all for keeping the thread alive while I was away for holiday. I am sure @Dejarma and @Trelane will be thrilled!!

Fly-ya Bye-ah

(Theory Assumption - ((there's two notable conspiracy groups with ties to roswell, the people have identified))

(the assumption is that ... a single attempt to convey the truth was made with at least two attempts, since there was pronounced division in that area in the services and locally there in the geography in the usa services at that time, this will lead us to the present)

Group 1

horrornews.net/116954/majestic-12/

Group 2 (unclear) (Edward Leedskalnin is not, technically shown)

/area51channel.blogspot.com/p/project-blue-book_07.html

(Both Accounts are "Legal and True" ............. there was at first a Roswell Event, that was squandered in foolishness, because they did not want the answer, that provided another aforementioned date in the future ..................... the second event, was something they accepted, and they attempted to bury the shame of what originally took place.  (in reality, roswell wanted much more then a future date they provided, they wanted changes to society, the people, and adaptation of some of the policies of the usa's defeated foe the "german machine"..............but it became a matter of what was on the table, and the time of eventual action, that made things better resolved with the typical answer to all universal issues, the answer of murder and sabotage................they wanted to faithfully wrestle with the position they won by defeating the "german machine"..................and that is what the weather balloon, parallel incident was, a rebuke, but exactly what they wanted) (this out of the controversy, "Project Blue Book" was born, and everything else fell into the obscurity of history...............once they made a decision to cut the standard and wrestle with that, well as history goes, they continued to cut the standard until they cut the history and promise, until nothing was left, and the information was corrupted, "legal and true", but also corrupted at their hands)

(the last thing we hear about "Roswell UFO", is, from Ron L. Hubbard's account with no legal basis, for the single position that would revive the conclusion of roswell...............as we've said, 2019 is the year of trajedy and discovery, as we reach the dead line of from Flight 370 "1290 and 1335 Days to 5/21/2021, in the date range of 153 days from "12/21/2020 to 5/21/2021", in which humanity must answer or die, as to the dead flesh issue of a good deal of nations facing death, or humanity dies (the only answer to that is the usage of nuclear weapons)

(with these things said, I believe, its not unreasonable to reveal that in 2019, this could also represent a definitive position in the unresolved North Korean Nuclear Expenditures) (this is the unfortunate kind of information the people in the highest positions of the heads of state and the public trust, will, (do everything they can), (to ensure, said prophecies, remain void, not that they are invalid to any degree)

Edited December 28, 2018 by gostar

[Dejarma]

7 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

And I'd like to thank y'all for keeping the thread alive while I was away for holiday. I am sure @Dejarma and @Trelane will be thrilled!!

Fly-ya Bye-ah

oh joy how ya doing, Earl?  have a nice time away?