Roswell 1947

[stereologist]

If people want to pretend that a news release by Marcell was completely factual they might as well accept the alien autopsy film that many many gullible people fell for and defended.

That film was revealed by the maker to be a hoax, But then not everyone who is shamed by defending a hoax wants to admit that and there are still those that defend the film.

Roswell was not an event for decades. Then some hoaxers like Berlitz decided to make a mystery where there was none and promoted Roswell.

Now there are plenty of books, a museum, and conventions to commemorate something that never happened.

[stereologist]

Here is a better written story

https://www.theufochronicles.com/2018/05/an-extraterrestrial-flying-disk-crashed-near-roswell-pt2.html

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Regardless, according to a US Air Force report, the Roswell wreckage was quickly taken away by the Air Force.

That is a mistake unless the Air Force time traveled back to 1947.

After we are told

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It would be rare, if all 622 books contained the exact same information and arrived at a common conclusion about what occurred at Roswell in 1947. Contradictory information about the Roswell UFO incident is abundant.

The reason for the disparities especially in the significant issues is that these books are fiction and in fiction it doesn't matter. And the article does suggest there has been a lot of fabrication.

 

This talk about something 400 or 500 mph is BS. No one saw anything flying. Marcel did not and could not. He would not be aware of anything till at least 24 hours after Brazel told the sheriff.

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Soon after the 1947 Fourth of July holiday, a rancher reported to the local sheriff that he might have recovered the remains of a flying saucer. Unfortunately, no one saw the saucer while it was airborne (Rudiak, 2001a). Although UFO researchers interviewed numerous witnesses, only a few of the witnesses claimed to have seen the suspected saucer debris. Of these few people, only a handful said to have actually held the material. At least one of those handlers was positive that the remnants were not from an extraterrestrial spacecraft (Korff, 1997).

Maybe people later on pretended they saw something but that would be pretending after 1978.

Later on it stated that Ramey lied about a weather balloon. I believe that. Was the material something from a balloon. Yes it was. Nothing suggest it was anything but man made material available  in 1947.

Farther down the write up tells  us

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The first report of a flying saucer over the United States came in June 1947. Kenneth Arnold, a private pilot, sighted several disk-shaped objects near Mt. Rainier, Washington. Arnold's encounter was followed by a torrent of additional sightings from all over the United States.

The cover story says flying saucer less than 1 month after the flying saucer craze starts.

The next part again shows that Earl.Of.Trumps was wrong in claiming there was no retraction of the flying saucer cover story

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After initially reporting that the debris had come from a UFO, the Roswell Daily Record submitted a correction which included a statement that the debris was actually pieces of a weather balloon

The story fades off into other things after that.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

7 hours ago, psyche101 said:

More likely a meteor produced by The Sagittarid/Alpha Scorpid streams and possibly even the same meteor witnessed by William Woody who reported a brilliant meteor. 

 

So what you are saying is that 3 civilians saw a "flying disk" streak across the sky but you say they "likely" saw a meteor. Really!? A "disk shaped" meteor. That's very interesting! And you are saying that they did not see a balloon that *also* was in play here. Really!?

So a balloon and a streaking meteor went by, and all three eyewitnesses saw a "flying disk"! This is all called "unsubstantiated fantasy". Desperate

And the military intel man that said he recovered a disk... what did HE see at that crash site?

One question, psyche, were you there?

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

8 hours ago, psyche101 said:

The military meteorology terminology for the radar target is disc. According to records Irving Newton from metereology identified it immediately as the 'disc' (check the records) not the balloon array is what was actually recovered as you can see in the photos. 

The description accurately fits the above. 

 

Well, Marcel was not penning his statement for military people to read. It was to be read by civilians. So he would say "weather balloon" if that's what it was.

 The Wilmots and Brazel were not in the military. In their lingo "disk" means disk!

Edited November 11, 2018 by Earl.Of.Trumps

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

5 hours ago, stereologist said:

Here you continue to be a liar. Your purpose appears to be nothing other than to lie about what other people have posted.

Here you are a liar again. I never suggested any of the rather inane lies you are posting.

So time for you to grow and stop being a whiny 3 year old.

How many times in the last 3 days have you called me a liar, a dozen?? Talk about WHINING! look in the mirror, spam bot

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

1 hour ago, stereologist said:

No idea why you are so confused about the order of events and what happened. It wouldn't hurt you to learn before spouting ignorance.

There is no evidence at all that Marcel did any detective work. He simply collected debris that he handed over to Ramey. It is Ramey that corrected the original cover story.

Brazel was the first on the scene. Marcel came at least 24 hours later. There was no recovery crew as you falsely claimed. Brazel was not the ranch owner as you falsely stated.

You pretend that the military cover story is completely factual. No one in 1947 thought any of it was true. It would not be till 1978 that this bad cover story is revived.

It is clear that your bellicose blatherings are not interested in the truth but in only in your degenerate attempts at spouting delusions.

 

Nobody thought it was true? How about the two Wilmots and Brazel and the AUTHOR, Marcel? Did they *not believe* it was true??

And did you interview all the people that read the cover story in the newspaper??  Surrrrre.

The sad part about you is, you make up complete BS *And* you actually BELIEVE it.

No one believed the cover story. Sure.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

1 hour ago, stereologist said:

The cover story that was made up by Marcel, possibly based on the words of Brazel, and was sounded rejected by his superiors the very next day.

Pretending that a cover story is in any way factual is laughable.

 

I see we shifted gears here. Suddenly you are saying Marcel *may* have used Brazel's words instead of he *did* use Brazel's words. But what you and I both know for sure is this, Marcel PENNED it. It's *his* words, unless you PROVE otherwise.

And No, screaming your fantasy while jumping up and down and waving your arms is not proof. Neither is calling me a liar.

That'll be the day when some ubiquitous civilian tells a military officer what to say and how to say it.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Earl.Of.Trumps

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

IMO, there are many other people in the area that came out to speak at a much later time. Some of it, interesting.

But to me, the most reliable witnesses you can get are the ones that spoke out first. All of their stories are hard to believe at first blush, but when viewed as a whole they meld wonderfully. Those ppl could not see the future and did not know the pandemonium this event they reported would eventually yield. I believe they were sincere.

"flying disk" it is.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

18 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I see we shifted gears here. Suddenly you are saying Marcel *may* have used Brazel's words instead of he *did* use Brazel's words. But one thing you and I both know for sure is this, Marcel PENNED it. It's *his* words, unless you PROVE otherwise. And No, screaming your fantasy while jumping up and down and waving your arms is not proof. Neither is calling me a liar.

Did you magically eliminate the possibility that Brazel saw a DISK and Marcel saw a DISK, and his Marcel's choice of words were his own and  just *happened* to be the same as Brazel's? "If it looks like a duck..."

Anyway, that'll be the day when some ubiquitous civilian tells a military officer what to say and how to say it.

 

[Minimalists]

I am kind of rusty about this Roswell stuff cause its been a while...But didn't the Air Force later admit that they lied about the first release of the description of the object? I have went back and did some digging and I cannot any newspaper release....I think I will check over on Black Vault back in a second. 

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

This is cute. Major Marcel's bio link

Guess who directly or indirectly told Stanton Friedman about the cover up of the UFO at Roswell? From the link:

 

"Jesse, in spite of his claim that he was under orders to never, ever talk about his role in the alien disk recovery, occasionally did let on to others that that he had been once involved in a UFO recovery.  In 1978, one of his Ham Radio correspondents mentioned Jesse’s story to Stanton Friedman, a UFO researcher, and this led to telling his story of the Flying Disk to the world."

Yea, Marcel, who only used the term "disk" because Brazel told him to. LOL

And you might be interested in knowing that Marcel's son, Jesse Jr., wrote a book and told of how his father showed remains from that crash site to the family.

 

I can hear it now, "ThEYZ aLl a bUnCh a LiaRs" lol. Hey, what else ya got!

Edited November 11, 2018 by Earl.Of.Trumps

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

4 minutes ago, Alien Origins said:

I am kind of rusty about this Roswell stuff cause its been a while...But didn't the Air Force later admit that they lied about the first release of the description of the object? I have went back and did some digging and I cannot any newspaper release....I think I will check over on Black Vault back in a second. 

cool beans, Alien. try a search engine other than google. they have amazing ways to make certain links end up as the last of 40 million, ya know?

[Sheltie]

Jesse Marcel conceded in one of his final interviews that there was no way adults could confuse pieces of a weather/spy balloon for the wreckage they saw scattered on the ground.  A phenomenon occurred that was witnessed by numerous people that is worthy of research.

Critics will focus on the unsubstantiated stories of fantastic ultralight foldable metals and the Edgar Mitchell story of tiny coffins being produced by local undertakers.  The bottom line, though, is that an as-of-yet unexplained event did occur at Roswell.

    

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

13 minutes ago, Sheltie said:

Jesse Marcel conceded in one of his final interviews that there was no way adults could confuse pieces of a weather/spy balloon for the wreckage they saw scattered on the ground.  A phenomenon occurred that was witnessed by numerous people that is worthy of research.

Critics will focus on the unsubstantiated stories of fantastic ultralight foldable metals and the Edgar Mitchell story of tiny coffins being produced by local undertakers.  The bottom line, though, is that an as-of-yet unexplained event did occur at Roswell.

    

Good take on it, Sheltie.

So I was thinking...LOL, How many pieces of debris would there be in the crash of a weather balloon? Now maybe an electronics component that it carried might shatter (Mogul Balloon) but shouldn't we expect the balloon itself to be intact?

I mean, maybe it's me. Balloon. Crash. Intact balloon on ground. Hmph...

When the military in Fort Worth showed media the debris they gathered at the Foster ranch, NO BALLOON! Amazing. A lot of junk, no balloon!

Maybe it's me, Sheltie!

[Sheltie]

2 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Good take on it, Sheltie.

So I was thinking...LOL, How many pieces of debris would there be in the crash of a weather balloon? Now maybe an electronics component that it carried might shatter (Mogul Balloon) but shouldn't we expect the balloon itself to be intact?

I mean, maybe it's me. Balloon. Crash. Intact balloon on ground. Hmph...

When the military in Fort Worth showed media the debris they gathered at the Foster ranch, NO BALLOON! Amazing. A lot of junk, no balloon!

Maybe it's me, Sheltie!

My thoughts exactly, Earl!  Unless there was a pack of coyotes playfully shredding the plastic in the manner of a misbehaving family dog attacking the Sunday paper, the balloon wreckage idea doesn't make sense to me either.  

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

15 minutes ago, Sheltie said:

My thoughts exactly, Earl!  Unless there was a pack of coyotes playfully shredding the plastic in the manner of a misbehaving family dog attacking the Sunday paper, the balloon wreckage idea doesn't make sense to me either.  

 

OHmyGod Well, now we know what excuse they'll dig up  LOL

Edited November 11, 2018 by Earl.Of.Trumps

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Well, although materials in this article do cover statements made by Jesse Marcel, we also have yet *another* familiar officer at that same base who also speaks out, after his death! That would be Public Information Officer Lieutenant Walter Haut.

Lieutenant Walter Haut Speaks - link

"Lieutenant Walter Haut was the public relations officer at the base in 1947, and was the man who issued the original and subsequent press releases after the crash on the orders of the base commander, Colonel William Blanchard.

Haut died last year, but left a sworn affidavit to be opened only after his death.

Last week, the text was released and asserts that the weather balloon claim was a cover story, and that the real object had been recovered by the military and stored in a hangar. He described seeing not just the craft, but alien bodies."

The balloon claim was a cover story. Imagine that!

[psyche101]

5 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

So what you are saying is that 3 civilians saw a "flying disk" streak across the sky but you say they "likely" saw a meteor. Really!?

Yes why not? It appears to be the same object that was recorded as a meteor by others. 

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A "disk shaped" meteor. That's very interesting!

The Sagittarid/Alpha Scorpid often produces glowing meteors and parralax error can provide all types to shapes. It's noted too that Allen Hynek insisted the speeds that the Wilmots estimated are highly likely to be overestimated. 

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And you are saying that they did not see a balloon that *also* was in play here. Really!?

Yes, the storm is more likely what shredded the balloon which was already crashed at the ranch. 

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So a balloon and a streaking meteor went by, and all three eyewitnesses saw a "flying disk"!

No only a meteor did. 

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This is all called "unsubstantiated fantasy". Desperate

As Homs don't change the facts Earl. 

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And the military intel man that said he recovered a disk... what did HE see at that crash site?

A shredded RADAR target and the remnants of the array that carried it. 

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One question, psyche, were you there?

No, were you? 

[psyche101]

5 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Well, Marcel was not penning his statement for military people to read.

Yes he was, that's who sent him out to report what Brazels claim actually entailed. 

5 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

It was to be read by civilians.

No it wasn't. Marcel was not there as a reporter or by his own curiosity. He was ordered to investigate and report back. 

5 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

So he would say "weather balloon" if that's what it was.

Irving Newton had a chuckle at Marcel not being able to identify the debris, sgich was common to him. 

5 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

 The Wilmots and Brazel were not in the military. In their lingo "disk" means disk!

They did not release the terminology to the press. The mitary who does use that terminology did. 

[stereologist]

6 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

 

So what you are saying is that 3 civilians saw a "flying disk" streak across the sky but you say they "likely" saw a meteor. Really!? A "disk shaped" meteor. That's very interesting! And you are saying that they did not see a balloon that *also* was in play here. Really!?

So a balloon and a streaking meteor went by, and all three eyewitnesses saw a "flying disk"! This is all called "unsubstantiated fantasy". Desperate

And the military intel man that said he recovered a disk... what did HE see at that crash site?

One question, psyche, were you there?

He saw a crash balloon.

There was no crashed flying disk. In fact no one reported any flying disk in the air till after 1978.

Your story is fantasy that did not happen.

[stereologist]

6 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

 

Well, Marcel was not penning his statement for military people to read. It was to be read by civilians. So he would say "weather balloon" if that's what it was.

 The Wilmots and Brazel were not in the military. In their lingo "disk" means disk!

There was no disk. Brazel was on the site and saw something crashed. The material taken by the military from the ranch was five pounds of debris that fit into a brief case.

The Wilmot testimony like all of these testimonies changed over time. It went from seeing a light in the sky to later on seeing something explode in the sky. That's how this Roswell incident went. It goes from nothing to a complex fantasy.

[stereologist]

6 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

How many times in the last 3 days have you called me a liar, a dozen?? Talk about WHINING! look in the mirror, spam bot

Each and every time you lie I point it out. Here is a response from you in which you had the sensibility not to lie.

Maybe you will learn to be truthful.

As we all saw a while back you claimed I lied but you did not back it up because you couldn't.

[stereologist]

6 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

 

Nobody thought it was true? How about the two Wilmots and Brazel and the AUTHOR, Marcel? Did they *not believe* it was true??

And did you interview all the people that read the cover story in the newspaper??  Surrrrre.

The sad part about you is, you make up complete BS *And* you actually BELIEVE it.

No one believed the cover story. Sure.

The Wilmots did not think it was true. Later on their meteor sighting changed as did so much of the tales. Brazel reported a crash of something he did not know what it was.

Marcel never made much f it till he talked to Stanton Friedman in 1978, 31 years later.

So no. They did not believe it was true.

Here you are questioning psyche101 and myself if we did this or that and your knowledge f the case is complete ignorance.

So please tell us all where I made up complete BS. Because I know this is just another one of your stupid lies. So please tell me where I made up complete BS.

No one believed the cover story about a crashed flying disk.It was over in a day.

[stereologist]

6 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I see we shifted gears here. Suddenly you are saying Marcel *may* have used Brazel's words instead of he *did* use Brazel's words. But what you and I both know for sure is this, Marcel PENNED it. It's *his* words, unless you PROVE otherwise.

And No, screaming your fantasy while jumping up and down and waving your arms is not proof. Neither is calling me a liar.

That'll be the day when some ubiquitous civilian tells a military officer what to say and how to say it.

I didn't shift any gears. I have stated the same thing all throughout the thread. Maybe you are learning to read.

The problem is that you have lied and lied and lied about my posts. No wonder you are so confused.

Actually here s where you are again so wrong. The article in the paper was penned by a reporter based on what the military released. Are you really so ignorant?

You are a liar. I have proved you are a liar. I posted the proof when you lied.

See here is another of your stupid lies. I never suggested or wrote that a civilian told a military offer what to say. The only one making that suggestion is you. There you go with that lie. Can you ever stop being a liar?

[stereologist]

5 hours ago, Alien Origins said:

I am kind of rusty about this Roswell stuff cause its been a while...But didn't the Air Force later admit that they lied about the first release of the description of the object? I have went back and did some digging and I cannot any newspaper release....I think I will check over on Black Vault back in a second. 

Unlike Earl.Of.Trump's incorrect statement the newspaper had an immediate retraction that the flying disk story was correct.

The Roswell incident was less than a month after Arnold's flying saucer incident in Washington. That tarted a flurry of reports.

The most likely scenario is that Marcel decided to use a flying saucer story as a cover for a secret balloon crash. The next day one of his superiors change the story because Marcel's cover story was silly. It attracted attention. Ramey was right and the country went on with its UFO fad and Roswell was forgotten until Marcel thought he could cash in when he ran into Friedman. He pulled out his old fiction and 31 years nothing happen turned it into a fantasy to beguile the gullible and foolish.