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seanjo

Does Trump Incite Violence?

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Gromdor
18 minutes ago, aztek said:

nonsense, antifa and ultra left are tiny minority, they cause almost all political violence,  so were the nazis in late 30s. very small group.  violence almost always comes from small groups.

Portland, Chicago and New York are about as left as you can be.  The states they are in aren't deep blue because most of the people are right leaning conservatives........

You are right about the ultra-minority portion.  If the majority of either side were engaged in violence there would be deaths in the millions.

Edited by Gromdor

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AnchorSteam
11 hours ago, aztek said:

nonsense, antifa and ultra left are tiny minority, they cause almost all political violence,  so were the nazis in late 30s. very small group.  violence almost always comes from small groups.

"Never doubt that a small group of highly dedicated people can change the world. In fact, that is the only thing that ever has."

What used to be inspiring words now send a chill up the ol' spine, don't they?

This seems to be the issue with the rising tide of censorship. They keep following a pattern. One platform bans a heretic and then it is a race for all of the others to do the same. It’s monkey see, monkey do, as this new copy of a Judeo-Puritan ruling class signals to one another their piety and then reacts to those signals with their own acts of piety. No one in the ruling class thinks about the mob showing up with torches and rope. They don’t even think the mob will show up at the voting booth and cast a protest vote. (whoops!) This is why they will keep pushing censorship, furiously trying to out signal one another in what has become a piety festival among our ruling classes. They no longer see any humanity in we Dirt People.

And their minions are just the same.

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Farmer77
On 8/29/2018 at 12:16 PM, skliss said:

I'm still baffled as to how being conservative suddenly equalled racist and Nazi.

This has been rather disturbing to watch. Over the last several years the mainstream right has truly embraced the racists and the nazis. Look at the Charlottesville thread on this forum. That was a rally organized by racist organizations for the stated goal of mainstreaming their racist views, thats why they called it "unite the right",  they were trying to unite the extremists with the mainstream.  Anyways go and look at that thread. Look at the people supporting the racists by flatly denying that they were racists. There was no effort to fact check on the part of those on the right, it was a simply gut reaction to defend anyone who p***ed off those on "the left".

Thats not even mentioning Trump and his actions like despite knowing ALL about David Duke when he was a political opponent couldnt bring himself to disavow him or his beliefs when his votes could help during the 2016 election until after days of pressure to do so. Then once in office one of the very first things the Trump admin did was removed DOJ mandated police reforms to protect the constitutional rights of minority citizens in districts with historic levels of constitutional violations by law enforcement. He also said he doesnt want people immigrating from "shithole" countries which of course none of which were white dominated nations, then his famous accusation that a judge couldnt do his job because of his Mexican ancestry and his badgering of NFL players (including saying they should leave the country)  trying to bring awareness to the very issue which his government decided wasnt important. If the man isnt racist himself he certainly panders to the racist agenda.

The bottom line is conservatives have chosen to get into bed with racists.  No not all "conservatives" are racists by a longshot, but in this just like in all other areas of life, at some point you will be judged by the company you keep.

 

Edited by Farmer77

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lost_shaman
31 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

This has been rather disturbing to watch. Over the last several years the mainstream right has truly embraced the racists and the nazis.

Um No they/we have not! I'm a conservative and I've read dozens and dozens of books about the NAZI's and Communists and both their atrosiciries. The two have more in common with each other than any modern democracy does. To say the "mainstream right" embraces "racists and NAZI's" is just full blown nonsense and is patently untrue! 

 

38 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Look at the Charlottesville thread on this forum. That was a rally organized by racist organizations for the stated goal of mainstreaming their racist views, thats why they called it "unite the right",  they were trying to unite the extremists with the mainstream.  Anyways go and look at that thread. Look at the people supporting the racists by flatly denying that they were racists. There was no effort to fact check on the part of those on the right, it was a simply gut reaction to defend anyone who p***ed off those on "the left".

It was a couple of hundred kids that were attempting to oppose Anitfa! Did they "do all wrong"? Yeah, and a woman ended up dead because "one idiot" can't drive right after an "Antifa" crowd started bashing his car. Sad, but that whole incident has nothing to do with "Mainstream Conservatism".

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Farmer77

 

14 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

It was a couple of hundred kids that were attempting to oppose Anitfa! Did they "do all wrong"? Yeah, and a woman ended up dead because "one idiot" can't drive right after an "Antifa" crowd started bashing his car. Sad, but that whole incident has nothing to do with "Mainstream Conservatism".

This is a perfect example of what I was referring to. Racist organizations planned a rally for the stated purpose of getting people with your belief system to accept their viewpoints and here you are denying the facts of the situation and minimizing the entire thing.

 I really dont know what to say to that kind of willful ignorance. You honestly just claimed that they were there to "oppose Antifa". There is something seriously wrong with conservativism when you cant bring yourselves to admit that racists organized an event when the facts are right there in black and white.

Your response above really does go pretty far to answering @skliss's question about how "conservatives" all of a sudden became viewed as racists.

Edited by Farmer77

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lost_shaman
17 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

This is a perfect example of what I was referring to. Racist organizations planned a rally for the stated purpose of getting people with your belief system to accept their viewpoints and here you are denying the facts of the situation and minimizing the entire thing.

 I really dont know what to say to that kind of willful ignorance. You honestly just claimed that they were there to "oppose Antifa". There is something seriously wrong with conservativism when you cant bring yourselves to admit that racists organized an event when the facts are right there in black and white.

Your response above really does go pretty far to answering @skliss's question about how "conservatives" all of a sudden became viewed as racists.

Look, you can view me as a "racist" if you want! I think simply acknowledging the fact I'm a conservative will let you feel free to call me a "racist" no matter what I say.

That said I actually watched the stupid Charlottesville thing in real time as it happened. As such I can tell you it was nothing but a couple hundred kids trying to be "anti-Antifa" and doing it all wrong! Some of it was "horrifying" to me, I was waiting for them to start burning books! To be honest! But they did not and do not represent "mainstream Conservatives"! Period. You are wrong about that. Also, they have just as much of a right in this country to act like "FOOLS" just as the 'Left' does on a daily basis these days right?

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Farmer77
13 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

Look, you can view me as a "racist" if you want! I think simply acknowledging the fact I'm a conservative will let you feel free to call me a "racist" no matter what I say.

Personally I think this is part of what has led to mainstream conservatives tolerating racists in their ranks. I kinda get it its half true, plus the conservative machine has been building that victim mentality for years. I dont say that derogatorily, I fell for the "war on christmas" tripe for years myself, it is simply a political observation. 

I personally wouldnt ever say someone was racist simply for having conservative views, i will confess however that I could possibly see a point where I will say people who support Trump are racist. I do believe there is a very large distinction between the two.

13 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

That said I actually watched the stupid Charlottesville thing in real time as it happened. As such I can tell you it was nothing but a couple hundred kids trying to be "anti-Antifa" and doing it all wrong! Some of it was "horrifying" to me, I was waiting for them to start burning books! To be honest! But they did not and do not represent "mainstream Conservatives"!

Of course they dont represent mainstream conservatives, but, when you come in here and say they were only there to battle antifa you sure make yourself sound like they're representing you.

That's largely the point I was making. There is such a rush from the right to support anyone with anything resembling conservative views that there is a lack of critical thinking happening in this particular area.

13 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

Also, they have just as much of a right in this country to act like "FOOLS" just as the 'Left' does on a daily basis these days right?

Sure they do. Reasonable people however treat them and their supporters with absolute disdain once they out themselves, they dont call them "very fine people" , and they dont support those who do.

 

Edited by Farmer77

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lost_shaman
2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Personally I think this is part of what has led to mainstream conservatives tolerating racists in their ranks. I kinda get it, the conservative machine has been building that victim mentality for years. I dont say that derogatorily, I fell for the "war on christmas" tripe for years myself, it is simply a political observation. 

Look I'm a "Conservative" to the bone! I also have a half hispanic Niece, and a Half Black Niece, and I have a half Hispanic Daughter! And to be called a "racist" by idiot lefty's is laughable! But that seems to happen on a daily basis! So what? You guy's just are too politically ignorant to debate politics. Plain and simple, calling me a "racist" is all you've got and your wrong about that too!

 

7 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Of course they dont represent mainstream conservatives, but, when you come in here and say they were only there to battle antifa you sure make yourself sound like they're representing you.

That's largely the point I was making. There is such a rush from the right to support anyone with anything resembling conservative views that there is a lack of critical thinking happening in this particular area.

No there isn't! That's just what you want to hear and what you BELIEVE. Like I said, I watched the whole thing in real time, it was one group of 'FOOLs' "Antifa" and another group of 'FOOLs' "anti-Antifa" and they all acted like 'FOOLS' in Charlottesville! 

Of course in this Country both groups of Idiots have a right to protest and say nasty things! Both groups have an "equal" right to be stupid. You are acting like this is not true by calling "mainstream Conservatives" racist! The difference between you and I is that I see both groups as "idiots" and I would not call "mainstream Liberals" terrorists simply because a few hundred idiot Antifa's act like "terrorists".

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Farmer77
14 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

Look I'm a "Conservative" to the bone! I also have a half hispanic Niece, and a Half Black Niece, and I have a half Hispanic Daughter! And to be called a "racist" by idiot lefty's is laughable! But that seems to happen on a daily basis! So what? You guy's just are too politically ignorant to debate politics. Plain and simple, calling me a "racist" is all you've got and your wrong about that too!

Um....I havent called you a racist, simply identified exactly why you look like one to many. Ill debate politics and policies all day if you like, hell i'd rather, but this has become a serious issue.

14 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

Of course in this Country both groups of Idiots have a right to protest and say nasty things! Both groups have an "equal" right to be stupid. You are acting like this is not true by calling "mainstream Conservatives" racist!

I said mainstream conservatives have embraced racists. Your defense of the group in Charlottesville was a prime example of that. They have a right to be racist idiots for sure, decent humans will use their rights to shun them and push them to the fringes however, not praise them, or support those who do. 

14 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

The difference between you and I is that I see both groups as "idiots" and I would not call "mainstream Liberals" terrorists simply because a few hundred idiot Antifa's act like "terrorists".

Again though i wasnt saying mainstream conservatives are racists, just that your party has embraced racists and their causes, and again your defense of those in Charlottesville was a perfect example of that.

Hell man I dont even think you would have defended them as just "being there to oppose antifa" if you knew the whole story. The fact that you, and in your defense SO MANY other conservatives, dont know the facts around what happened that day however really shows a lack of vigilance due to political bias. Which takes me back to the original point i was making, which is such actions or willful ignorance make ya'll look like racists, whether you actually are or not.

 

Edited by Farmer77

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lost_shaman
Just now, Farmer77 said:

Um....I havent called you a racist, simply identified exactly why you look like one to many.

Like I said, you and your 'Lefty' friends have every right to be 'FOOLS'. 

I don't "look" like a "racist" you just want to BELIEVE that I am because I don't fall in line and agree with your 'group think'. OK. 

4 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Ill debate politics and policies all day if you like, hell i'd rather, but this has become a serious issue.

What's the "serious issue"? I'm not calling all 'Liberals' terrorists am I? I'm not saying a few hundred maybe a few thousand Antifa makes you all look like "terrorists" have I?

No. But that is what you are doing to me and half the Country and guess what we are SICK of it!

7 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I said mainstream conservatives have embraced racists.

You are simply wrong! 

 

8 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Your defense of the group in Charlottesville was a prime example of that.

I've defended both groups equally and called them both "FOOLS". 

 

9 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

They have a right to be racist idiots for sure, decent humans will use their rights to shun them and push them to the fringes however, not praise them, or support those who do.

Again, the difference between you and I is that you want to apply some moral superiority to one group of "FOOLS" over the other when there is none!

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preacherman76

My goodness Farm. Smh

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, lost_shaman said:

Again, the difference between you and I is that you want to apply some moral superiority to one group of "FOOLS" over the other when there is none!

Yikes. So there is no moral difference between people who hate folks due to the color of their skin and those who oppose them?

 

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lost_shaman
13 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Im not a dem but when the head of the dem party calls antifa very fine people after murdering a counter protester then you may have an accurate analogy.

Again, you are appying some moral superiority where there is none, it was a car accident after "Antifa" protesters attacked an 18 year old kid in his new Charger and were bashing his car. He was too young and probably afraid for his life so he gunned it and hit people. So what? You act as if he showed up just to run someone over and spend his life in prison. I've watched that scene a hundreds times and that just not what happened.

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Farmer77
2 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

I don't "look" like a "racist" you just want to BELIEVE that I am because I don't fall in line and agree with your 'group think'. OK. 

You said racist groups who planned a racist rally were there to "oppose antifa". Pro tip: twisting the truth to defend a group of folks tends to make it look like you support that group of folks.

 

3 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

What's the "serious issue"? I'm not calling all 'Liberals' terrorists am I? I'm not saying a few hundred maybe a few thousand Antifa makes you all look like "terrorists" have I?

No. But that is what you are doing to me and half the Country and guess what we are SICK of it!

Again with the victim mentality. I didnt call you racist, simply said your actions make you look like one. Dont like it ? Change your actions.

5 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

You are simply wrong! 

Trump Defends White-Nationalist Protesters: 'Some Very Fine People on Both Sides'

This is mainstream "conservatives" embracing racists. It happened on national TV

 

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Farmer77
7 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

I've defended both groups equally and called them both "FOOLS". 

Sorry that spin isnt working here. You defended them by denying why they were there in the first place. You defended them by claiming they were just there to oppose antifa. Thats the reality.

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lost_shaman
4 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Yikes. So there is no moral difference between people who hate folks due to the color of their skin and those who oppose them?

These days if you are white you are probably being oppressed due to the color of your skin. But as I said I have a mixed Family and we are not "racist" towards each other. That doesn't mean we are "Liberals" in fact we are all "Conservatives".

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Farmer77
3 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

Again, you are appying some moral superiority where there is none, it was a car accident after "Antifa" protesters attacked an 18 year old kid in his new Charger and were bashing his car. He was too young and probably afraid for his life so he gunned it and hit people. So what? You act as if he showed up just to run someone over and spend his life in prison. I've watched that scene a hundreds times and that just not what happened.

You honestly think that people who hate others due to the color of their skin are morally acceptable human beings? Thats what youre saying here.

 

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lost_shaman
2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

You said racist groups who planned a racist rally were there to "oppose antifa".

No. I didn't say that, you said that. I said "a couple hundred Idiots" were there to oppose "Antifa".

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lost_shaman
2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

You honestly think that people who hate others due to the color of their skin are morally acceptable human beings? Thats what youre saying here.

Good God Man! I have a mixed Family and I've told you this three times and you are still accusing me of being a "racist"!!! 

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Farmer77
2 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

These days if you are white you are probably being oppressed due to the color of your skin.

Sure the income gap is somewhere around 15-1 in favor of whites and the incarceration rates are somewhere around 5x that for minorities as that of whites, oh and the 3 black fortune 500 CEO's are surely keeping the other 497 Fortune 500 companies from hiring white folks.

Dude you are singing from the racists hymnal, line and verse.

 

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Farmer77
2 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

No. I didn't say that, you said that. I said "a couple hundred Idiots" were there to oppose "Antifa".

Exactly. They werent there to oppose Antifa, the racists organized the rally themselves. They were there to try and get mainstream conservatives to accept their views. Hence the "unite the right" name.

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, lost_shaman said:

Good God Man! I have a mixed Family and I've told you this three times and you are still accusing me of being a "racist"!!! 

No im asking for clarification. Despite saying you have mixed family you're still saying there is no moral highground between antifa and white supremacists. Thats a tad bit of mixed messaging.

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lost_shaman
8 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

You honestly think that people who hate others due to the color of their skin are morally acceptable human beings? Thats what youre saying here.

 

I think you are a "racist" and you feel bad about it and overcompensate by calling your political opponents "racists"! Yeah! That's what I think. I think you just can't help yourself. 

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lost_shaman
7 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

the incarceration rates are somewhere around 5x that for minorities as that of whites,

Well that's how much more crimes are committed by these groups of people. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that is not true! 

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Farmer77
Just now, lost_shaman said:

I think you are a "racist" and you feel bad about it and overcompensate by calling your political opponents "racists"! Yeah! That's what I think. I think you just can't help yourself. 

Hmmm you're not far off. I was a rabid racist for many years. While i do feel bad about the things I did during that time my Karma has been more than paid. My problem is awareness. I used to hinge on every word of folks like David Duke, Pat Buchanan even Ross Perot back in the day, just waiting to hear those dogwhistles that made me and my friends bristle with glee. Having always been into politics and apologetics I recognize their tactics and rhetoric for what it is and I see how they have gone from the fringe to the mainstream, with your "if youre white youre probably opressed" statement truly being the classic white supremacist argument.

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