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seanjo

Does Trump Incite Violence?

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aztek
Just now, odas said:

Haha, this kind of rethoric is all you got left. Soon, the educated and patriotic America will take over again and Trump and your ilk will be where they belong - in the garbage pail of history.

 

lamo, what a desperate attempt to be relevant, too bad it failed, better luck next time

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skliss
13 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Over the last several years the mainstream right has truly embraced the racists and the nazis.

Simply, flat-out, this is bull$hit. It's the narrative being used to stop any and all dissenting conversation...bottom line.

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AnchorSteam
11 minutes ago, skliss said:

Simply, flat-out, this is bull$hit. It's the narrative being used to stop any and all dissenting conversation...bottom line.

That is the nature of political discourse with a raging fanatic. 

Cold-War Soviet propaganda was written exactly the same way, and turned out to be just as worthless in the end.

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Farmer77
2 hours ago, skliss said:

Simply, flat-out, this is bull$hit. It's the narrative being used to stop any and all dissenting conversation...bottom line.

Im sorry you feel that way. That however is exactly why the right is increasingly becoming intertwined and identified with racism. Dont want to look like a racist? Dont support people who say racists are very fine people. Its pretty simple.

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Sir Wearer of Hats
2 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Im sorry you feel that way. That however is exactly why the left is increasingly becoming intertwined and identified with ararchy and violence. Dont want to look like a violent anarchist? Dont support people who say punching Nazis is a good thing. Its pretty simple.

And conversely...

spoilers Farmer - both sides are getting nasty.

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Farmer77
9 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

And conversely...

spoilers Farmer - both sides are getting nasty.

 Agreed but I think just on a core moral level I cant wholly get onboard with  the concept that punching a nazi is akin to hating people because of their skin color.  There is a moral highground in that interaction. 

 

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Sir Wearer of Hats
27 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

 Agreed but I think just on a core moral level I cant wholly get onboard with  the concept that punching a nazi is akin to hating people because of their skin color.  There is a moral highground in that interaction. 

 

Both are nasty people, one merely hates - the other acts on their hate.

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Varelse
23 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Both are nasty people, one merely hates - the other acts on their hate.

Right now that's mostly true. Hate is their byproduct of fear and fear, a product of the unknown or unfamiliar is easily incited. When more people understand most of our social divides are manufactured to keep us from seeing the big picture conversations will get more civil while protests become more unified and relevant.

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Varelse
On 9/2/2018 at 3:23 AM, RoofGardener said:

 

Putting this all together; people CAN use his statements as an excuse for violence. But the President is NOT inciting that violence. 

 

This is true under most circumstances, including everything up to now. IF he says something in the future that immediately directs a group of people to harm other people or property I'm not so sure he can't be charged. Then again, he's not just POTUS, he's our Chief Military Commander. 

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Farmer77
2 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Both are nasty people, one merely hates - the other acts on their hate.

Thats a massive assumption though. You dont think any of these people are employed in positions of power where they can affect people's lives?  That all of their rhetoric is impotent? There are many ways to harm a human being that dont include televised physical violence during a protest.

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Sir Wearer of Hats
3 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Thats a massive assumption though. You dont think any of these people are employed in positions of power where they can affect people's lives?  That all of their rhetoric is impotent? There are many ways to harm a human being that dont include televised physical violence during a protest.

While an assumption, we live in a very media savvy world, if someone was being a racist **** they’d be called on it in some way.

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Farmer77
Just now, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

While an assumption, we live in a very media savvy world, if someone was being a racist **** they’d be called on it in some way.

Not really. The media doesnt know when the racist throws Jamal's resume in the trash can without offering an interview based solely on his name, or when the financing officer declines a minorities application rather than attempting to work through multiple banks, or when that property manager chooses the nice white couple over the minority.

Im not saying this is an epidemic type thing but when people feel strongly enough to spend all day on message boards hating people, then dress up and march in the streets, its probably a safe bet that their belief system leeches into their daily lives.

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Sir Wearer of Hats
1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

 

Im not saying this is an epidemic type thing but when people feel strongly enough to spend all day on message boards hating people, then dress up and march in the streets, its probably a safe bet that their belief system leeches into their daily lives.

I think we can agree that anyone who dresses up with the intent of violence, rather than fun, are ****s.

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odas
20 hours ago, aztek said:

lamo, what a desperate attempt to be relevant, too bad it failed, better luck next time

Haha, that for sure Ruski.

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AnchorSteam
16 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Both are nasty people, one merely hates - the other acts on their hate.

Like the Bernie supporter that showed up at a Baseball game in D.C. with a list of Republican Congressmen he wanted to kill, and he actually put bullets into a few of them. If it hadn't been for a couple of Cops there it would have been a bloodbath. 

But we can't talk about that, its too offensive.... meaning true. 

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Gromdor
40 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

Like the Bernie supporter that showed up at a Baseball game in D.C. with a list of Republican Congressmen he wanted to kill, and he actually put bullets into a few of them. If it hadn't been for a couple of Cops there it would have been a bloodbath. 

But we can't talk about that, its too offensive.... meaning true. 

Speaking of that, do you think he did it because of something Trump said?

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Kittens Are Jerks

President Trump celebrates the body-slam of a reporter in Montana
It has been a week since news broke of a California man’s arrest for making disturbing threats against staffers of the Boston Globe, the newspaper that led a mid-August campaign among editorial boards to decry President Trump’s attacks on the media.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2018/09/07/president-trump-celebrates-the-body-slam-of-a-reporter-in-montana/

 

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skliss
21 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Im sorry you feel that way. That however is exactly why the right is increasingly becoming intertwined and identified with racism. Dont want to look like a racist? Dont support people who say racists are very fine people. Its pretty simple.

How about let's actually have conversations and not call people racists to avoid losing an argument. Not you specifically, the left.. I was raised knowing that labelling someone a racist was a serious matter that could change lives and reputations and should never under any circumstances be used lightly but only with the utmost consideration before hand. The reasoning was that as a serious accusation it's importance shouldn't be diminished as a way to point out true evil in our midst. Now if disagree with someone over gum vs breath mints it's whipped out to win the argument. 

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Farmer77
2 hours ago, skliss said:

How about let's actually have conversations and not call people racists to avoid losing an argument. Not you specifically, the left.. I was raised knowing that labelling someone a racist was a serious matter that could change lives and reputations and should never under any circumstances be used lightly but only with the utmost consideration before hand. The reasoning was that as a serious accusation it's importance shouldn't be diminished as a way to point out true evil in our midst. Now if disagree with someone over gum vs breath mints it's whipped out to win the argument. 

I cant argue with any of that. Like i said (somewhere above) there is absolutely truth to the accusation that the left has used that term as a weapon.

My point was that IMO as a result of being sick and tired of that happening there seems to be a trending inability or unwillingness to identify real racism and racist tactics when they pop up in your ranks.

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skliss
38 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I cant argue with any of that. Like i said (somewhere above) there is absolutely truth to the accusation that the left has used that term as a weapon.

My point was that IMO as a result of being sick and tired of that happening there seems to be a trending inability or unwillingness to identify real racism and racist tactics when they pop up in your ranks.

You keep talking about one incident that was covered by confusion from the beginning. It took weeks to sort out and people still disagree with what actually happened. Time to leave that one behind.

I can't accuse someone and throw them out of "our ranks" just because the left labels them that way.  I take calling someone a racist very seriously and am not doing it based on the criteria and hyperbole of "your ranks".  It's their watchword and their answer to every argument. If I call someone out I want to be damn sure they are one.

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Farmer77
2 minutes ago, skliss said:

You keep talking about one incident that was covered by confusion from the beginning. It took weeks to sort out and people still disagree with what actually happened. Time to leave that one behind.

Not really. The confusion was created intentionally and now that its been cleared up people are still supporting the man who called racists very fine people. Im not sure what you think you will be labeled as when you are siding with that mentality.

4 minutes ago, skliss said:

I can't accuse someone and throw them out of "our ranks" just because the left labels them that way.  I take calling someone a racist very seriously and am not doing it based on the criteria and hyperbole of "your ranks".  It's their watchword and their answer to every argument. If I call someone out I want to be damn sure they are one.

If you need the left to tell you when someone is being racist this conversation is obviously pretty pointless anyways.

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skliss
1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

Not really. The confusion was created intentionally and now that its been cleared up people are still supporting the man who called racists very fine people. Im not sure what you think you will be labeled as when you are siding with that mentality.

If you need the left to tell you when someone is being racist this conversation is obviously pretty pointless anyways.

1.) I think the confusion caused the initial statements with which you hinge your whole argument.

2.) I'm saying I'm not just taking their word for it because they fling the racist label around haphazardly. 

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Farmer77
2 minutes ago, skliss said:

1.) I think the confusion caused the initial statements with which you hinge your whole argument.

The most powerful man in the world waited days to comment because in his own words "he wanted to wait for the facts". Two things there. First even his most ardent supporters have to confess that is out of character for Trump.

Second and more important though he had the facts wrong. Ive posted links to multiple websites which were up days and weeks before the Charlottesville rally explaining exactly who each and every organizer and planned speaker was. Do you honestly believe the most powerful man in the world didnt have access to that information?

 

6 minutes ago, skliss said:

2.) I'm saying I'm not just taking their word for it because they fling the racist label around haphazardly. 

I get that, however , without the ability or willingness to identify it yourself you will always be lumped in with them because you are giving tacit approval.....'you' being Trump supporters in general, not necessarily you specifically.

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Farmer77

Here is a great example of an historical attempt of his to incite violence.

Donald Trump's 30-year crusade against the Central Park Five

Quote

When a Central Park jogger was brutally raped and beaten nearly to death in 1989, Donald Trump was at the front of the pack calling for literal blood. Four black teenagers and one Latino teenager were charged and jailed on shaky evidence after confessing to the crime under intense questioning, and two weeks after the attack, Trump took out a full-page ad in four city newspapers advocating for the reinstatement of the death penalty.

But the so-called Central Park Five were vindicated in 2002, when their convictions were vacated after a convicted murderer and rapist confessed to the crime — a confession that was corroborated by DNA evidence. (DNA was never found connecting the Central Park Five to the crime.) The Central Park Five were eventually awarded a $41 million settlement from New York City in 2014.

But over the decades, even as it became increasingly clear that the Central Park Five were innocent, Trump has continued to call for their deaths, and even criticized the city for its multi-million dollar settlement — all without any actual evidence that the Central Park Five were involved in the rape.

 

Its crazy even after DNA evidence acquitted them he was on Twitter trashing them

 

 

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lost_shaman
On 9/7/2018 at 6:59 PM, Farmer77 said:

Its crazy even after DNA evidence acquitted them he was on Twitter trashing them

 

I've not read anything about this case, but if it's true then maybe Hillary should have focused on things like this instead of looking for Fake Trump Russia stories.

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