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Scientists announce major new LHC discovery

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seanjo

Great stuff.

 

"Bottom Quark" Anyone else find that hilarious?

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sci-nerd

LHC is not smashing atoms, but particles (protons). And I believe they're called "down quarks", not "bottom...".

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MisterMan
57 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

LHC is not smashing atoms, but particles (protons). And I believe they're called "down quarks", not "bottom...".

I think LHC has also done Lead atoms (stripped of all but one electron).  So, not a naturally occurring atom (AFAIK), but still an atom. Also, Bottom Quarks (aka Beauty Quarks) are a thing, and are not the same as Down Quarks.

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sci-nerd
3 minutes ago, MisterMan said:

I think LHC has also done Lead atoms (stripped of all but one electron).  So, not a naturally occurring atom (AFAIK), but still an atom. Also, Bottom Quarks (aka Beauty Quarks) are a thing, and are not the same as Down Quarks.

I stand corrected. Thank you!

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Stiff
1 hour ago, seanjo said:

Great stuff.

 

"Bottom Quark" Anyone else find that hilarious?

A-Young-William-Shatner-Nods-With-Confid

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BeastieRunner

What exactly does that mean? Another step towards proving which theory exactly?

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sci-nerd
3 minutes ago, BeastieRunner said:

What exactly does that mean? Another step towards proving which theory exactly?

As I understand it, if we can control the Higgs Field, we can create any kind of particle we want. That would be a huge advancement for science. Maybe the biggest one since the discovery of quantum mechanics.

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keithisco
47 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

As I understand it, if we can control the Higgs Field, we can create any kind of particle we want. That would be a huge advancement for science. Maybe the biggest one since the discovery of quantum mechanics.

It would help a bit if you could explain this idea of "controlling" the Higgs Field. The Higgs Field is simply an expression of one half of the duality of a particle-wave with the Higgs- Boson being the particle expression and the Higgs-Field being the wave expression.  

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sci-nerd
4 minutes ago, keithisco said:

It would help a bit if you could explain this idea of "controlling" the Higgs Field. The Higgs Field is simply an expression of one half of the duality of a particle-wave with the Higgs- Boson being the particle expression and the Higgs-Field being the wave expression.  

You're doing very well at it yourself, if I might add ;)

One of the benefits of it is being able to create Exotic Matter. Try to google that. EM can help us solve the dark matter/energy conundrum, and help us create "exotic" technology.

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Torchwood
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, keithisco said:

It would help a bit if you could explain this idea of "controlling" the Higgs Field. The Higgs Field is simply an expression of one half of the duality of a particle-wave with the Higgs- Boson being the particle expression and the Higgs-Field being the wave expression.  

At a guess , and I'm no expert  on the matter, its a bit like how we can manipulate both sides of Electromagnetism-  stimulate a magnetic field to get electrons moving, or use electrons to stimulate a magnetic field (i.e move the big magnet in a power station  to generate a current that is sent down a wire to a locomotive that uses that current to move a magnet to pull a train.)

Perhaps , likewise , we can use the bosun to makes waves in the field, AND make waves in the field to make (or maybe move or change or something) particles....

 

But as I said, just a guess...

Edited by Torchwood
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keithisco
1 minute ago, sci-nerd said:

You're doing very well at it yourself, if I might add ;)

One of the benefits of it is being able to create Exotic Matter. Try to google that. EM can help us solve the dark matter/energy conundrum, and help us create "exotic" technology.

Dont need to Google that at all. How on earth do you, theoretically, manipulate the Higgs Field/Boson in such a way as to create exotic matter? How does exotic matter describe dark matter/energy apart from the obvious that they are such ethereal posits that being "exotic" is just a descriptor. Where is Torchwood and Badeskov when you need them? 

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keithisco
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Torchwood said:

At a guess , and I'm no expert  on the matter, its a bit like how we can manipulate both sides of Electromagnetism-  stimulate a magnetic field to get electrons moving, or use electrons to stimulate a magnetic field (i.e move the big magnet in a power station  to generate a current that is sent down a wire to a locomotive that uses that current to move a magnet to pull a train.)

Perhaps , likewise , we can use the bosun to makes waves in the field, AND make waves in the field to make (or maybe move or change or something) particles....

 

But as I said, just a guess...

...ah, speak of the devil!:tsu:

I see what you are saying, but isnt the Particle and the wave the same thing, with only observation or measurement determining the state or condition that presents itself? So the proposal is to somehow interact with the field to create a nexus of energy that leads to a new "exotic" particle/new wave

 

Edited by keithisco
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Torchwood
2 minutes ago, keithisco said:

Dont need to Google that at all. How on earth do you, theoretically, manipulate the Higgs Field/Boson in such a way as to create exotic matter? How does exotic matter describe dark matter/energy apart from the obvious that they are such ethereal posits that being "exotic" is just a descriptor. Where is Torchwood and Badeskov when you need them? 

Not sure I know what he's on about now...I was kinda with him on the first post (except possibly the bit about making particles, manipulating them maybe, but I doubt  we could just conjure them in to existence).   But such applications are probably a bit beyond us.  And "Exotic" is just another word for "Green Rocks" .

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sci-nerd
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, keithisco said:

How on earth do you, theoretically, manipulate the Higgs Field/Boson in such a way as to create exotic matter?

The math tells us exactly what charge each particle (exotic or not) has. So you can then use the Higgs Field, charge it to the exact level you want, and get exactly the particle you aim for.

Once again I must stress that this is "as I understand it"!

Regarding dark matter/energy, if we can study EM, we might find particles who fit DM/DE properties.

Edited by sci-nerd

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keithisco
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

The math tells us exactly what charge each particle (exotic or not) has. So you can then use the Higgs Field, charge it to the exact level you want, and get exactly the particle you aim for.

Once again I must stress that this is "as I understand it"!

You are definitely confusing me now because the Higgs Boson has 0 charge. Are you mixing up Mass with charge?

Actually, I think I will count myself out of this one because I have lots of prep to finish before work tomorrow. Cheers though...-will look in tomorrow because it has piqued my interest

Edited by keithisco

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sci-nerd
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, keithisco said:

the Higgs Boson has 0 charge

The Higgs Field is close to 0, but not 0. It rests just slightly above.

Edited by sci-nerd

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Torchwood
7 minutes ago, keithisco said:

...ah, speak of the devil!:tsu:

I see what you are saying, but isnt the Particle and the wave the same thing, with only observation or measurement determining the state or condition that presents itself?

 

Yes they are.  But they can affect the field they are in, and perhaps the field can affect them in return....just like with the magnet thing.

 

As to the practical ability to manipulate the field to do something to the particles...well, lets look at another sort of duality:

Spacetime!  Everything is limited by the Cosmic speed limit (C!) , you can only go so fast through space time. Some of that speed is your passage through time, some through space. The faster you move in space, the slower you move in time.  Likewise the slower you move in space , the faster you move in time. And its pretty easy to change your movement within space; we have the legs for it as it were.

 And clearly if you needed to stop (in space) in a hurry you could  just increase you speed through time!, Amiright or amiright?   Now, lets see everyone try an emergency stop by that method...

That's one of those things that's really easy to write down, but really hard to achieve in real life. 

So don't get to excited sci-nerd, manipulating the higgs field in order to do anything to a particle might be just as inaccessible. 

 

 

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keithisco
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Torchwood said:

Yes they are.  But they can affect the field they are in, and perhaps the field can affect them in return....just like with the magnet thing.

 

As to the practical ability to manipulate the field to do something to the particles...well, lets look at another sort of duality:

Spacetime!  Everything is limited by the Cosmic speed limit (C!) , you can only go so fast through space time. Some of that speed is your passage through time, some through space. The faster you move in space, the slower you move in time.  Likewise the slower you move in space , the faster you move in time. And its pretty easy to change your movement within space; we have the legs for it as it were.

 And clearly if you needed to stop (in space) in a hurry you could  just increase you speed through time!, Amiright or amiright?   Now, lets see everyone try an emergency stop by that method...

That's one of those things that's really easy to write down, but really hard to achieve in real life. 

So don't get to excited sci-nerd, manipulating the higgs field in order to do anything to a particle might be just as inaccessible. 

 

 

You just had to mention Spacetime!  Nope, not happening, definitely not going to get involved today... finish off my prep for tomorrow (Chinese delegation to woo). before we get onto whether there are 10 or 26 Dimensions.:whistle:

Edited by keithisco

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sci-nerd
6 minutes ago, Torchwood said:

So don't get to excited sci-nerd, manipulating the higgs field in order to do anything to a particle might be just as inaccessible.

You can't blame a nerd for dreaming :D

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danydandan
1 hour ago, sci-nerd said:

The math tells us exactly what charge each particle (exotic or not) has. So you can then use the Higgs Field, charge it to the exact level you want, and get exactly the particle you aim for.

Once again I must stress that this is "as I understand it"!

Regarding dark matter/energy, if we can study EM, we might find particles who fit DM/DE properties.

Sorry your wrong, one can't just magically conjure particles into existence. Theoretically all the higgs field does is allow particles to interact with each other. ie give mass etcetera. One can't control this energy.

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sci-nerd
5 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Sorry your wrong, one can't just magically conjure particles into existence. Theoretically all the higgs field does is allow particles to interact with each other. ie give mass etcetera. One can't control this energy.

Control might have been a bit optimistic. But we could learn the conditions required for each particle to emerge, and by copying those conditions, produce said particles. Right?

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danydandan
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

Control might have been a bit optimistic. But we could learn the conditions required for each particle to emerge, and by copying those conditions, produce said particles. Right?

No, sorry. The uncertainty principle would be violated if we knew the exact conditions.

Even virtual particles, and all stuff measured at the LHC are as a result of interactions between other particles. IE smashing them together. We can't predict anything really about what will happen as a result of these interactions.

Edited by danydandan

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sci-nerd
6 minutes ago, danydandan said:

No, sorry. The uncertainty principle would be violated if we knew the exact conditions.

Even virtual particles, and all stuff measured at the LHC are as a result of interactions between other particles. IE smashing them together. We can't predict anything really about what will happen as a result of these interactions.

Yet...! :D

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danydandan
1 minute ago, sci-nerd said:

Yet...! :D

I strongly feel that if we produce a quantum computer powerful enough, we might be able to predict these interactions, however we will always have uncertainty and inherent error in our devices used for observations. Thus I don't see the uncertainty principle being violated.

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