Is Faith an Accurate Pathway to Truth?

[XenoFish]

7 minutes ago, Hello Davros Kitty said:

We may never know what influences this dialogue backed by evidence might have. Is it not that good enough?

You know as well as I do that religion or any irrational beliefs can not be destroyed. I often wonder what I am destroying when I break someone's illusions. When I show them that what they believe isn't quite what they think. Am I doing something good? Was the effort worth it? I think about my own loss of faith and realize that in some ways it's not a good things, but then again I see that knowing what is, is better, than what isn't. Is there some middle ground I'm not seeing. Because from where I'm standing it's either. Believer or Don't. Nothing in the middle. Both atheist and theist are absolute in their convictions. So what does that make me? Am I better because of what I've learned. Has the betterment of my knowledge has lead to misery? 

That there is nothing to believe in, because nothing matters, since humanity is a cosmic accident and our existence is ultimately meaningless. It has lead me to a very bleak and nihilistic road. Which further fuels/maintains my current depressive state.

Edited September 18, 2018 by XenoFish

[Guyver]

3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I don't know if this place was good for me or not. Would I be happier if I was still dumb and full of magical thinking or am I better off being more educated, nihilistic and cynical? 

Your credibility just skyrocketed in my opinion.  That is a truly wise and introspective question to ask.  If I were to ask it of myself, I’d have to say that I may not be any more or less happy than before, but I definitely think I am wiser.

[Guyver]

6 hours ago, lightly said:

Thanks danydandan and Guyver,. Ya...the personal example of positive thinking which always comes to mind is

when I was working a job which involved walking miles per day through forests and swamps....being a pack mule basically for much of it....and then hanging out in between....dealing with insects and weather....  Anyway, as I walked/packed I would think about how every step I took was getting me closer to my goal of buying a piece of acerage for cash...Which Happened after 5 years of this routine.  So anyway, ya, I'm familiar with positive thinking and the positive results which are possible.

i got off on this tangent thinking about how faith and positive thinking can be somewhat similar ?  

Congratulations on a tremendous accomplishment.  Yes, I think faith and positive thinking are similar.  They are different in that many times faith is placed in allowing God to do the work, and with positive thinking one expects oneself to be able to do the work, as you yourself have done.  I’ve tried both, and felt success with both methods.

[+Sherapy]

8 hours ago, Guyver said:

Since I've been back, I've seen at least two or three others beside myself who have changed their beliefs.....maybe as a result of this place.  So, I wouldn't call it futile.  But in general, I do understand your point and you are right.  

I have seen several posters change their minds as a result of UM, including me. 

[Habitat]

3 hours ago, Hello Davros Kitty said:

Just learn to be more critical in your thinking, then you will understand. 

But you can't do that. I know why, and the evidence to back it up.

Whatever floats your boat, old son, but you are just not yet arrived at that point where it doesn't hurt your pride, to admit you just don't know the truth of this situation, at all.  I know something of it, and that could be a very small something, in the scheme of things, but as the old song told us.....

To everything - turn, turn, turn
There is a season - turn, turn, turn
And a time to every purpose under heaven

A time to gain, a time to lose
A time to rend, a time to sew
A time for love, a time for hate
A time for peace, I swear it's not too late!

 

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Habitat

[Davros of Skaro]

3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

You know as well as I do that religion or any irrational beliefs can not be destroyed. I often wonder what I am destroying when I break someone's illusions. When I show them that what they believe isn't quite what they think. Am I doing something good? Was the effort worth it? I think about my own loss of faith and realize that in some ways it's not a good things, but then again I see that knowing what is, is better, than what isn't. Is there some middle ground I'm not seeing. Because from where I'm standing it's either. Believer or Don't. Nothing in the middle. Both atheist and theist are absolute in their convictions. So what does that make me? Am I better because of what I've learned. Has the betterment of my knowledge has lead to misery? 

You're taking it too seriously. I would not go up to an old Christian then tell them they're wrong, unless they pushed the belief on me. But if that same person pushed it here expecting to convert others? I would give them a dose of cognitive dissonance, unless they were actually proving what they're saying. 

Despite what Theists want to believe we live in a better world because of the shedding away of superstitions. Just enjoy being part of that tradition. Not the tradition of swinging a chicken above your head to transfer sins to the bird's blood, then slicing it's neck to wish away said sins.

Why be angry over thought addicts? Be happy to be part of the bulwark against it. Try new things, and attitudes. 

3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

That there is nothing to believe in, because nothing matters, since humanity is a cosmic accident and our existence is ultimately meaningless. It has lead me to a very bleak and nihilistic road. Which further fuels/maintains my current depressive state.

How do you know you're not letting negativity get the best of you? Sure you can cite legitimate reasons, but letting yourself be blinded by them only makes the hole deeper.

[Davros of Skaro]

1 hour ago, Habitat said:

Whatever floats your boat, old son, but you are just not yet arrived at that point where it doesn't hurt your pride, to admit you just don't know the truth of this situation, at all.  I know something of it, but that could be a very small something in the scheme of things, but as the old song told us.....

If I was not critical in my thinking, I would believe in a whole bunch of nonsense. Just because X is true. It does not mean Y & Z is true. I rather not know rather than make connections that are not there, and believe it was so.

1 hour ago, Habitat said:

To everything - turn, turn, turn
There is a season - turn, turn, turn
And a time to every purpose under heaven

A time to gain, a time to lose
A time to rend, a time to sew
A time for love, a time for hate
A time for peace, I swear it's not too late!

Since the spirit world is so powerful as to have a message ready for you as soon as you turn on the TV? Why not channel (tee hee) this knowledge to write a book? Call it the "UHF Book".

[Habitat]

1 minute ago, Hello Davros Kitty said:

If I was not critical in my thinking, I would believe in a whole bunch of nonsense. Just because X is true. It does not mean Y & Z is true. I rather not know rather than make connections that are not there, and believe it was so.

Since the spirit world is so powerful as to have a message ready for you as soon as you turn on the TV? Why not channel (tee hee) this knowledge to write a book? Call it the "UHF Book".

There has been no exaggeration or invention on my part, and I have only told a small part of it, but clearly you have a need to "kill" these ideas stone dead, if only you could.

[Rlyeh]

11 hours ago, danydandan said:

It's idiotic comments like the one you replied to, makes me wonder sometimes.

The laws of physics are Universal we certainly know alot more than 4% of what's going on.

I thought they may have meant we've only discovered 4%, but still what does that have to do with faith?

[Habitat]

1 minute ago, Rlyeh said:

I thought they may have meant we've only discovered 4%, but still what does that have to do with faith?

Once you have 100%, where is the need for faith ? But more importantly, how would you know you had the 100% !

[Davros of Skaro]

6 minutes ago, Habitat said:

There has been no exaggeration or invention on my part, and I have only told a small part of it, but clearly you have a need to "kill" these ideas stone dead, if only you could.

Invention? no.

Exaggeration? Only your patternicity quotient looks to be high.

Ideas? All you do is rabble on.

[Habitat]

37 minutes ago, Hello Davros Kitty said:

Invention? no.

Exaggeration? Only your patternicity quotient looks to be high.

Ideas? All you do is rabble on.

You mean ramble on ? You are part of the "rabble" that can't live with doubt, you want everything pinned down, like a Lepidopterist's collection, under the rule of reason. It may be time to accept that reality, ultimately, might not conform to this expectation. You don't have to accept that it doesn't, just that maybe it doesn't. That, to me, is the intelligent person's approach.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Habitat

[Davros of Skaro]

1 hour ago, Habitat said:

You mean ramble on ? You are part of the "rabble" that can't live with doubt, you want everything pinned down, like a Lepidopterist's collection, under the rule of reason. It may be time to accept that reality, ultimately, might not conform to this expectation. You don't have to accept that it doesn't, just that maybe it doesn't. That, to me, is the intelligent person's approach.

Get over yourself and watch a video. 

 

[Habitat]

15 minutes ago, Hello Davros Kitty said:

Get over yourself and watch a video. 

You just wasted  12 minutes of my time. Starting to think you aren't as bright as I imagined.

[XenoFish]

4 hours ago, Hello Davros Kitty said:

You're taking it too seriously. I would not go up to an old Christian then tell them they're wrong, unless they pushed the belief on me. But if that same person pushed it here expecting to convert others? I would give them a dose of cognitive dissonance, unless they were actually proving what they're saying. 

I've done that for years. As I was never satisfied with how magick works. Most people settle on some spiritual/metaphysical explanation. I couldn't. 

Despite what Theists want to believe we live in a better world because of the shedding away of superstitions. Just enjoy being part of that tradition. Not the tradition of swinging a chicken above your head to transfer sins to the bird's blood, then slicing it's neck to wish away said sins.

That's not what bothers me. I find those superstition based rituals idiotic. Just like a few ritualized religion as equally idiotic. I've not no problem with the cafeteria variety believers though. Most of them don't take their religion serious. 

Why be angry over thought addicts? Be happy to be part of the bulwark against it. Try new things, and attitudes. 

Yeah, it's the new attitude thing. I often stand on the edge of the absurd wanting to jump over and wanting to stay were I'm at. 

 

How do you know you're not letting negativity get the best of you? Sure you can cite legitimate reasons, but letting yourself be blinded by them only makes the hole deeper.

I do know. I know that I'm getting too much in my own head for my own good. I do miss a certain level of magical thinking which really isn't and I still do it. I used to be a huge proponent of Intention-Manifestation, which is just creative visualization, which is just subconscious programming. I was on the woo side of it till I learned differently. Which killed the emotionality of it. But even now I still do it from time to time. Thinking about what I want, what I expect. Constructive thinking as I call it, because optimism is bull. So is pessimism for that matter. 

 

[SHaYap]

I sometimes wonder about the times in human history, when singers of songs, never having any a chance of actually hearing themselves sing, would know how they were singing beautifully ...

~

[Davros of Skaro]

3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I'm the XenoFish. Gaze in wheezey gasp if you wish.

Just listen 1:28-1:50 of this video.

 

[Guyver]

12 hours ago, Hello Davros Kitty said:

Get over yourself and watch a video. 

Just listen 1:28-1:50 of this video.

 

What's your point?  

Quote

You just wasted  12 minutes of my time.

I understand that.  But more than a waste, it was more of an insult, in my mind - because it was just so creepy.  

Yes......creepy things exist in the world.....don't need to know them all.  

[WVK]

Raising Kids With Religion Or Spirituality May Protect Their Mental Health: Study

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2018/09/17/raising-kids-with-religion-or-spirituality-may-protect-their-mental-health-study/#491e15053287

[XenoFish]

3 hours ago, WVK said:

Raising Kids With Religion Or Spirituality May Protect Their Mental Health: Study

Hurts so good too.

10 signs of a spiritual narcissist.

Sin of Silence

5 ways to recognize religious abuse.

It's not all rainbows, sunshine, and happy holy kitty cats.

[XenoFish]

10 hours ago, Hello Davros Kitty said:

Just listen 1:28-1:50 of this video.

Just planting the seed of doubt.

[jmccr8]

On 9/9/2018 at 7:00 PM, Habitat said:

Hello again, seekers ! And I do mean that inclusively, all here are "seekers" after truth. They sense, consciously and sub-consciously, that there is more than what is deemed the limits, by the hard-boiled, whether those be extreme fundamentalist religious, or extreme fundamentalist materialist ! How lovely, perhaps, to have such "certainty" that you would not for a second, enter such discussions as happen here, they'd no more do that, than argue about which way is UP. Glad I was able to clear that up.

Hi Habitat 

I just come for the wings and beer,not to mention the pretty girls.

jmccr8 

[psyche101]

8 hours ago, WVK said:

Raising Kids With Religion Or Spirituality May Protect Their Mental Health: Study

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2018/09/17/raising-kids-with-religion-or-spirituality-may-protect-their-mental-health-study/#491e15053287

 

I see this claimed often, but it doesn't make sense. 

 

The most religious countries have the shortest life spans 

Edited September 19, 2018 by psyche101

[SHaYap]

5 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Just planting the seed of doubt.

Oiy ... Fish ... I challenge you to watch every single minute of this vid ... just under an hour ... its a riveting peek at all the knots of this thread ....

~

~

... or this one ... just over half an hour ...

 

~

... tell me what ya think ....

~

[lightly]

My Mom was the step daughter of a Methodist minister...my Dad spent from age 8 thru 16 in a Catholic orphanage ...consequently , I was raised as some sort of Believer and studied other belief systems a little ,for much of my life.

i've become somewhat of a "NotSurest" or "NotKnowest" in my latter years.....  Or some sort of "Ye of little faith" 

In a way, I think I'm more content sitting on the fence than being a know it all or not know it all either way. ;o )

actually, deep down I still feel as if I do still believe in something more than is perhaps readily apparent ....but I'm not going to argue with anyone about it.  ;o D