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Jodie.Lynne

Is Faith an Accurate Pathway to Truth?

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lightly

My Mom was the step daughter of a Methodist minister...my Dad spent from age 8 thru 16 in a Catholic orphanage ...consequently , I was raised as some sort of Believer and studied other belief systems a little ,for much of my life.

i've become somewhat of a "NotSurest" or "NotKnowest" in my latter years.....  Or some sort of "Ye of little faith" 

In a way, I think I'm more content sitting on the fence than being a know it all or not know it all either way. ;o )

actually, deep down I still feel as if I do still believe in something more than is perhaps readily apparent ....but I'm not going to argue with anyone about it.  ;o D 

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Habitat
2 minutes ago, lightly said:

My Mom was the step daughter of a Methodist minister...my Dad spent from age 8 thru 16 in a Catholic orphanage ...consequently , I was raised as some sort of Believer and studied other belief systems a little ,for much of my life.

i've become somewhat of a "NotSurest" or "NotKnowest" in my latter years.....  Or some sort of "Ye of little faith" 

In a way, I think I'm more content sitting on the fence than being a know it all or not know it all either way. ;o )

actually, deep down I still feel as if I do still believe in something more than is perhaps readily apparent ....but I'm not going to argue with anyone about it.  ;o D 

Sounds like an intelligent and healthy attitude to have.

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Jodie.Lynne
12 hours ago, lightly said:

i've become somewhat of a "NotSurest" or "NotKnowest" in my latter years.....  Or some sort of "Ye of little faith" 

I believe the term you are looking for is "Agnostic". :)

 

agnostic

noun
 
ag·nos·tic | \ ag-ˈnä-stik , əg- \

Definition of agnostic 

(Entry 1 of 2)

1 : a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

2 : a person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something political agnostics

agnostic

adjective
ag·nos·tic | \ ag-ˈnäs-tik , əg- \

Definition of agnostic (Entry 2 of 2)

1 : of, relating to, or being an agnostic : involving or characterized by agnosticism

3 usually used after a noun

a : not preferring a particular device or system "Children are platform agnostic," said Alice Cahn, vice-president of development for Cartoon Network. "If you want to look foolish with a preschooler, say, 'Sorry, you can't watch that. It's not on.' It's TiVoed, it's online, it's on video on demand."Business Wire

b : designed to be compatible with different devices (such as computers or smartphones) or operating systems content that is OS agnostic often used in combination The application is platform-agnostic, so it can work on your tablet or cell phone.

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MERRY DMAS
On 9/18/2018 at 2:47 PM, Guyver said:

What's your point?  

 

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Habitat

You seem obsessed with that woman, davros.

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Baldylocks

Well, Im now wishing I didn't go on that vid. Im glad I wont know that's happening when im gone...jeez.

Edited by Baldylocks
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lightly
On September 19, 2018 at 8:20 PM, Jodie.Lynne said:

I believe the term you are looking for is "Agnostic". :)

 

agnostic

noun
 
ag·nos·tic | \ ag-ˈnä-stik , əg- \

Definition of agnostic 

(Entry 1 of 2)

1 : a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god .

Thanks Jodie,... one would think so I guess, but ,for me it's just not that simple.  I never quite get to 'that' point ^

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Jodie.Lynne
On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 3:11 PM, lightly said:

Thanks Jodie,... one would think so I guess, but ,for me it's just not that simple.  I never quite get to 'that' point ^

Hey lightly, from what you described about your ambivalence on belief, I thought that the label agnostic fit. Basically, on the fence as to belief or disbelief, not sure one way or the other. 

As for myself, I would require some solid evidence before I could believe in any supernatural entity, especially a 'god'.

I know that there are many on this site (and in RL) that claim some kind of personal evidence that god exists, but I find their testimony to be lacking. I am NOT saying they are lying, or delusional! However, they may be biased or predisposed to believe the 'evidence' they claim to have. As always, if their faith makes them better people, then I wish them well.

 

Now, my take on faith. I do NOT consider faith to be an accurate representation of truth, nor does it lead to truth. The reason, is simple to my mind: with faith, one can believe anything without evidence. One could believe in unicorns, dragons, reptilian overlords, what have you, simply based on their predisposed "faith" that their perceptions are true and factual. If you can believe in something, without tactile, testable, repeatable evidence, then you can believe anything at all.

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lightly

Hi Jodie, ok, I'll accept the Label   "Agnostic".      Since I don't seem to be able to explain my complicated feelings on the matter any better. 

    This reminds me of what one of our more thoughtful members once said.....  "Labels belong on BOXES , not on PEOPLE"

; o )

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Jodie.Lynne
1 hour ago, lightly said:

Hi Jodie, ok, I'll accept the Label   "Agnostic".      Since I don't seem to be able to explain my complicated feelings on the matter any better. 

    This reminds me of what one of our more thoughtful members once said.....  "Labels belong on BOXES , not on PEOPLE"

; o )

Touche! But I wasn't trying to label you, I was merely providing the word that best fit what you were expressing.

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DieChecker
On 9/13/2018 at 3:27 PM, Jodie.Lynne said:

No, they don't support slavery. Although, I'm pretty sure that a small (very small) minority of believers would LOVE if certain ethnic groups and women were 'put back in their place'.

However, look at the large number of Christians who are opposed to same sex marriage based on their own religious faith.

The opposition to same sex marriage is wavering, yes? It is simply tradition, and tradition changes over time. 

On 9/13/2018 at 7:02 PM, Jodie.Lynne said:

Sounds like regression to the Dark Ages to me.

Also, if even 50% of the population was some flavor of Christian, do numbers equal correctness? Sounds like a fallacy of numbers to me.

Numbers do not equal correctness. I only meant progress in that the numbers of Christians (percentage wise) is still increasing. Which was in rebuttal to the supposition that Christianity is failing.

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DieChecker
On 9/17/2018 at 5:52 PM, XenoFish said:

You know as well as I do that religion or any irrational beliefs can not be destroyed. I often wonder what I am destroying when I break someone's illusions. When I show them that what they believe isn't quite what they think. Am I doing something good? Was the effort worth it? I think about my own loss of faith and realize that in some ways it's not a good things, but then again I see that knowing what is, is better, than what isn't. Is there some middle ground I'm not seeing. Because from where I'm standing it's either. Believer or Don't. Nothing in the middle. Both atheist and theist are absolute in their convictions. So what does that make me? Am I better because of what I've learned. Has the betterment of my knowledge has lead to misery? 

That there is nothing to believe in, because nothing matters, since humanity is a cosmic accident and our existence is ultimately meaningless. It has lead me to a very bleak and nihilistic road. Which further fuels/maintains my current depressive state.

Depends. On if God is real or not. If He is, then you are hosed. If He isn't, then perhaps you gained some minor advantage in your 100 years of life. For sure you have banned yourself from the comforting bosom of religious confidence.

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XenoFish
4 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Depends. On if God is real or not. If He is, then you are hosed. If He isn't, then perhaps you gained some minor advantage in your 100 years of life. For sure you have banned yourself from the comforting bosom of religious confidence.

Guess I'm not as blinded as I once was. The way I see it, religion and spirituality are just coping mechanisms for dealing with reality. A "Safe Space". 

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cormac mac airt
On 9/17/2018 at 7:52 PM, XenoFish said:

You know as well as I do that religion or any irrational beliefs can not be destroyed. I often wonder what I am destroying when I break someone's illusions. When I show them that what they believe isn't quite what they think. Am I doing something good? Was the effort worth it? I think about my own loss of faith and realize that in some ways it's not a good things, but then again I see that knowing what is, is better, than what isn't. Is there some middle ground I'm not seeing. Because from where I'm standing it's either. Believer or Don't. Nothing in the middle. Both atheist and theist are absolute in their convictions. So what does that make me? Am I better because of what I've learned. Has the betterment of my knowledge has lead to misery? 

That there is nothing to believe in, because nothing matters, since humanity is a cosmic accident and our existence is ultimately meaningless. It has lead me to a very bleak and nihilistic road. Which further fuels/maintains my current depressive state.

I wouldn't go that far Xenofish. I wouldn't call what I believe being at either extreme of what you're suggesting. The difference for me is that I'm not egotistical enough to pretend that the religious definition/s of God is/are the definitive explanation/s of same. 

IMO it's only meaningless if YOU wish it to be as YOU give your life meaning/a purpose. As long as you try to better yourself in some way and do no harm to others then what they think is completely irrelevant. You shouldn't be so hard on yourself my friend, you're better than that. 

cormac

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cormac mac airt
3 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Depends. On if God is real or not. If He is, then you are hosed. If He isn't, then perhaps you gained some minor advantage in your 100 years of life. For sure you have banned yourself from the comforting bosom of religious confidence.

Sounds rather insulting. So one has to be religious/have religious confidence to be comforted in life? Personally I'm not comforted with lying to myself about what I was taught God was, having been a Southern Baptist. 

cormac

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Jodie.Lynne
3 hours ago, DieChecker said:

On if God is real or not. If He is, then you are hosed.

See, this right here is contradictory to what Christians tell us about their god. Supposedly loving and forgiving, etc. etc., but will torment you for eternity for using the brains that he supposedly gave us, and not relying on blind faith.

3 hours ago, DieChecker said:

For sure you have banned yourself from the comforting bosom of religious confidence.

Forgive me for being blunt, but what "comforting bosom" would that be? I would sincerely like to hear some examples of this, before I counter them.

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Jodie.Lynne
3 hours ago, DieChecker said:

The opposition to same sex marriage is wavering, yes? It is simply tradition, and tradition changes over time. 

Wavering? What America do you live in? It had to be fought for state by state until the Supreme Court ruled on it in 2015. And that ruling is still being challenged today.

 

 

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XenoFish
17 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

I wouldn't go that far Xenofish. I wouldn't call what I believe being at either extreme of what you're suggesting. The difference for me is that I'm not egotistical enough to pretend that the religious definition/s of God is/are the definitive explanation/s of same. 

IMO it's only meaningless if YOU wish it to be as YOU give your life meaning/a purpose. As long as you try to better yourself in some way and do no harm to others then what they think is completely irrelevant. You shouldn't be so hard on yourself my friend, you're better than that. 

cormac

Humanity has created meaning for itself in several ways. Religion being one of them, and religion is only an opinion. But it's treated as if it is fact by way too many people. What I hate is the idea of a loving god that is more than willing to kill everything and only wants absolute dedication of its followers. Sounds less like a god and more like the words of a megalomaniac with a god complex. God is like a bad parent. No love, just hate. 

Everything is meaningless to me. Every thing I had ever believed in at one point is a self delusion. Hope, optimism, living on faith that things would get better. Life crushed that, the more I learned crushed that, the cheerful optimist Xeno died. It's difficult to believe in something when every hope is a lie. 

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cormac mac airt
3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Humanity has created meaning for itself in several ways. Religion being one of them, and religion is only an opinion. But it's treated as if it is fact by way too many people. What I hate is the idea of a loving god that is more than willing to kill everything and only wants absolute dedication of its followers. Sounds less like a god and more like the words of a megalomaniac with a god complex. God is like a bad parent. No love, just hate. 

Everything is meaningless to me. Every thing I had ever believed in at one point is a self delusion. Hope, optimism, living on faith that things would get better. Life crushed that, the more I learned crushed that, the cheerful optimist Xeno died. It's difficult to believe in something when every hope is a lie. 

God is what you make of him/her/it. If you keep relying on the opinions of others, particularly those of the Abrahamic faiths, then you've already lost. They don't know any more than you or I. 

I don't believe that Xeno and some small part of me would like to believe that there is something of you that doesn't either. Not completely. 

cormac

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XenoFish
Just now, cormac mac airt said:

God is what you make of him/her/it. If you keep relying on the opinions of others, particularly those of the Abrahamic faiths, then you've already lost. They don't know any more than you or I. 

I don't believe that Xeno and some small part of me would like to believe that there is something of you that doesn't either. Not completely. 

cormac

I spent a chunk of my life summoning various gods, I got nothing. Sure a few weird dreams, but in the long run nada. And yet for some stupid illogical reason I'm supposed to believe or else. I used to be a magician, not the card trick variety. The magic circle kind in long robes and midnight evocation. I loved that life. But. The more I learned about the mind and the more I learned about the science of it all. The fun and magic of it all died, I died. It became nothing more than a glorified system of self-affirmations. The very thing that gave my life structure, discipline, and meaning was gone. 

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Habitat
5 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

If you keep relying on the opinions of others, particularly those of the Abrahamic faiths, then you've already lost.

I really wonder about the mental state of anyone who would avidly read the OT. I suppose it provides a contrast to the "enlightened" message of the NT. But no-one should read any religious text, unless it excites their interest, in my opinion. Follow your nose to wherever the trail leads, but force-feeding of it, is madness.

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DieChecker
3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Guess I'm not as blinded as I once was. The way I see it, religion and spirituality are just coping mechanisms for dealing with reality. A "Safe Space". 

Again depends... blinded of what and by whom? Still depends on if God is real. 

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Habitat
4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I spent a chunk of my life summoning various gods, I got nothing. Sure a few weird dreams, but in the long run nada. And yet for some stupid illogical reason I'm supposed to believe or else. I used to be a magician, not the card trick variety. The magic circle kind in long robes and midnight evocation. I loved that life. But. The more I learned about the mind and the more I learned about the science of it all. The fun and magic of it all died, I died. It became nothing more than a glorified system of self-affirmations. The very thing that gave my life structure, discipline, and meaning was gone. 

Would you like a hug, sweetie ? Seriously, the answer to your problem is to recognize that many others are far worse off, and don't have the luxury of moping. Maybe volunteer a few hours of your week to help.

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XenoFish
Just now, DieChecker said:

Again depends... blinded of what and by whom? Still depends on if God is real. 

The garbage the church teaches. It's all lies.

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DieChecker
40 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Sounds rather insulting. So one has to be religious/have religious confidence to be comforted in life? Personally I'm not comforted with lying to myself about what I was taught God was, having been a Southern Baptist. 

cormac

Yeah, I could have been more gentle with the wording. My specific belief is very few will be damned. Most who turned away will realize what is happening and repent at the Last Judgement. 

I meant removing one self from a source of comfort, like turning away from extended family or friends, rather then trying to understand them. Not saying that is the only source of comfort...

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