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Still Waters

Quantum weirdness in 'chicken or egg' paradox

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Still Waters

The "chicken or egg" paradox was first proposed by philosophers in Ancient Greece to describe the problem of determining cause-and-effect.  

Now, a team of physicists from The University of Queensland and the NÉEL Institute has shown that, as far as quantum physics is concerned, the chicken and the egg can both come first. 

Dr Jacqui Romero from the ARC Centre of Excellence for Engineered Quantum Systems said that in quantum physics, cause-and-effect is not always as straightforward as one event causing another. 

 "The weirdness of quantum mechanics means that events can happen without a set order," she said.

https://phys.org/news/2018-09-quantum-weirdness-chicken-egg-paradox.html

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seanjo

Yeah, but in evolutionary terms, there wasn't one day a dinosaur the next a Chicken it was a long slow process involving the mechanics of evolution to get to what we call a Chicken, in fact, what we call a Chicken comes from selective breeding.

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taniwha

What if the chicken goes back in time and kills his grandfather before he hatches?

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InconceivableThoughts

It always made more sense imo that the thing inside the egg came first mainly due to the fact that the egg is made to protect and without the creature inside it to protect there is no need to create it.

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Orphalesion

But eggs existed millions of years before chickens....

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Gecks

Which came first....? Which came first.... When its on my plate covered in seasoning or fried or scrambled next to my bacon.... I just dont care

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Ozymandias
4 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

But eggs existed millions of years before chickens....

Not chickens' eggs, I hope?

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Orphalesion
1 minute ago, Ozymandias said:

Not chickens' eggs, I hope?

What if I tell you yes....? ;) Those prehistoric chicken eggs had a very, very long incubation time.

But really, that's the thing that has always bothered me about that "mystery". It never asks about a "chicken egg" it only asks about an egg. And we know by now; eggs, even bird eggs came long before chickens. We can project what laid them; the ancestors of the chicken.

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Ozymandias
1 minute ago, Orphalesion said:

What if I tell you yes....? ;) Those prehistoric chicken eggs had a very, very long incubation time.

But really, that's the thing that has always bothered me about that "mystery". It never asks about a "chicken egg" it only asks about an egg. And we know by now; eggs, even bird eggs came long before chickens. We can project what laid them; the ancestors of the chicken.

So chicken eggs - those things I might have boiled, poached or fried for my breakfast - were in existence millions of years before chickens - those things I might have fried or roasted for my dinner? I still don't think so!

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Setton

Nevermind. Stupid image thing. 

Edited by Setton

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Orphalesion
3 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

So chicken eggs - those things I might have boiled, poached or fried for my breakfast - were in existence millions of years before chickens - those things I might have fried or roasted for my dinner? I still don't think so!

Not only were they in existence millions of years before chickens, but you pached and fried them for your breakfast millions of years before your own existence. You have always been in your kitchen,  poaching eggs, ever since this planet came into being, waiting for yourself to arrive and for chickens to evolve.

Edited by Orphalesion

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Ozymandias

Is that quantum weirdness again? I thought that only applied at the subatomic level. Or are you referring to multiple universes? Isn't that just a theory?

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Orphalesion
7 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

Is that quantum weirdness again? I thought that only applied at the subatomic level. Or are you referring to multiple universes? Isn't that just a theory?

No, it's really time that is the illusion. Or rather Objective and Subjective Time.
Objective Time: Duration, Break, Decay
Subjective Time: Narrowing and Widening, Waxing and Waning. Inner Streams. 
It's the need for sound.

(BTW I  am just pointing this out because I'm not entirely sure what's going on in this thread right now, but I'm pretty much just joking around. Except for the part where I said that eggs, in one form or another, appeared on this earth long before chickens were around, which is an evolutionary fact, nothing. I wrote was serious. In my last message I paraphrased an X-Men comic and in this one I just quoted a book I was reading just now.) 

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Bunzilla
35 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

But eggs existed millions of years before chickens....

I've always assumed that they meant 'female creature that lays the eggs' when they talk about 'the chicken'. Saying chicken is just easier.

 

But I could be wrong.

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Orphalesion
Just now, Bunzilla said:

I've always assumed that they meant 'female creature that lays the eggs' when they talk about 'the chicken'. Saying chicken is just easier.

 

But I could be wrong.

It probably is that way. I just can't help being pedantic sometimes ;)

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Bunzilla
4 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

It probably is that way. I just can't help being pedantic sometimes ;)

Everyone's entitled to look at the question in their own way. But you're right, if you look at it that way, the egg certainly came before therapods evolved into birds. :lol:

 

 

 

 

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Ozymandias
3 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

No, it's really time that is the illusion. Or rather Objective and Subjective Time.
Objective Time: Duration, Break, Decay
Subjective Time: Narrowing and Widening, Waxing and Waning. Inner Streams. 
It's the need for sound.

(BTW I  am just pointing this out because I'm not entirely sure what's going on in this thread right now, but I'm pretty much just joking around. Except for the part where I said that eggs, in one form or another, appeared on this earth long before chickens were around, which is an evolutionary fact, nothing. I wrote was serious. In my last message I paraphrased an X-Men comic and in this one I just quoted a book I was reading just now.) 

Thanks for that clarification. :tu:

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Noxasa

I don't know if people are just kidding or not but everyone does realize that this hypothesis is simply an application of Schrodinger's Cat quantum paradox on the chicken and the egg causality conundrum?  By application of that paradox we can quantumly assume that both the egg and chicken came first at the same time, since time doesn't exist at small enough quantum scales.  Which actually means that time really doesn't exist at all, and is just a perception of our higher ordered consciousness.

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Coil


It's amazing that scientists have only just learned this.God is one, he is the Father-Mother-Son in one being therefore it makes no sense to find out that the chicken, the c*** or the egg is primary, as in the beginning everything was and science reveals what religion has long been known for.

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psyche101
3 minutes ago, Coil said:


It's amazing that scientists have only just learned this.God is one, he is the Father-Mother-Son in one being therefore it makes no sense to find out that the chicken, the c*** or the egg is primary, as in the beginning everything was and science reveals what religion has long been known for.

What on earth has that nonsense got to do with the subject? 

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third_eye

Century eggs ... century eggs came before many chickens today ...

~

[00.03:33]

~

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Coil
1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

What on earth has that nonsense got to do with the subject? 


Well, the scientists made a mistake at first and now correct their mistakes.

I sometimes think that they still read some religious books because they make the right conclusions. Only their disadvantage is that they still see energy and matter, and that behind all this there is the omnipresent Consciousness-Force that causes all particles to rotate and be connected together and in evolution to form intelligent beings from primary elements, they still have to open it.

 

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XenoFish
On 9/5/2018 at 9:55 AM, taniwha said:

What if the chicken goes back in time and kills his grandfather before he hatches?

It creates an alternative timeline that ruins any further sequels. 

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John Allanson

Love it! Whenever Quantum physicists can't actually solve the problem, they invent a paradox, and it's always "Both!" 

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Rlyeh
2 hours ago, Coil said:


Well, the scientists made a mistake at first and now correct their mistakes.

What mistake did they make?

 

2 hours ago, Coil said:

I sometimes think that they still read some religious books because they make the right conclusions. Only their disadvantage is that they still see energy and matter, and that behind all this there is the omnipresent Consciousness-Force that causes all particles to rotate and be connected together and in evolution to form intelligent beings from primary elements, they still have to open it.

 

The only thinking you do is known as magical thinking. Your religious garbage has no place in science.

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