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Still Waters

Quantum weirdness in 'chicken or egg' paradox

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Coil

Sorry but with this attitude, I do not want to write to you even with what the debate of scientists began.

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danydandan
8 minutes ago, Coil said:
 

Sorry but with this attitude, I do not want to write to you even with what the debate of scientists began.

What are you even talking about?

 

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woopypooky

3 years old logic can apply to this;

1. Egg definitely came first before male chicken because male chicken can't lay eggs.

2. Egg also came first before female chicken because the eggs laid there after aren't the same chicken but its offspring.

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highdesert50

Pardon my twisted researcher humor, but time, like distance, are ultimately convenience measures to promote survival. If we pivot on the notion of survival, the question is not about when 'the chicken or the egg' but about how. The how provides the opportunity to apply the convenience measures, such as the when.

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danydandan

Chickens evolved from non-chickens through small changes caused by the mixing of male and female DNA or by mutations to the DNA. These changes and mutations only have an effect at the point where a new zygote is created. That is, two non-chickens mated and the DNA in their new zygote contained the necessary mutation(s) to the embryonic body plan to make the first true chicken. That one zygote cell then divided and formed a biologically modern chicken.

Prior to that first true chicken zygote, there were only non-chickens. The zygote cell is the only place where DNA mutations could produce a new animal, and the zygote cell is housed in the egg. So, the egg must have come first.

Edit: That's from a website that I can't remember so if someone finds it. Cite it.

Edited by danydandan
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Rlyeh
2 hours ago, Coil said:
 

Sorry but with this attitude, I do not want to write to you even with what the debate of scientists began.

Too bad you don't stop writing nonsense.

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
8 hours ago, Coil said:


Well, the scientists made a mistake at first and now correct their mistakes.

What mistake ?

8 hours ago, Coil said:

I sometimes think that they still read some religious books because they make the right conclusions.

So basically you think that they are right when they agree with your holy book and they are wrong when they disagree with it. Thats a very scientific way of thinking........ :whistle:

8 hours ago, Coil said:

Only their disadvantage is that they still see energy and matter, and that behind all this there is the omnipresent Consciousness-Force that causes all particles to rotate and be connected together and in evolution to form intelligent beings from primary elements, they still have to open it.

Care to provide any evidence for this idea ? I would appreciate if you used a little less word salad in your respons.

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Dr. Mirdad

I think the egg came first.. What housed the chick before it was hatched? Lets say the chicken is a cross between to species of birds that mated... The result would be egg first.. Then the hatchling which is the chicken in this case.

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Dejarma
On 04/09/2018 at 3:36 PM, seanjo said:

Yeah, but in evolutionary terms, there wasn't one day a dinosaur the next a Chicken it was a long slow process involving the mechanics of evolution to get to what we call a Chicken, in fact, what we call a Chicken comes from selective breeding.

yes yes yes!!!!! anyone with a modicum of common sense & understanding of what's going on around them knows the: 'what came first' is a stupid question!

it's like the ridiculous: 'are you a glass empty or a glass full kinda guy' stupid illogical question when trying to determine someone's approach to life!!!!

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psyche101
14 hours ago, Coil said:


Well, the scientists made a mistake at first and now correct their mistakes.

No they didn't, I'm not even sure why this is news to be honest. For decades we have known that the quantum world is chaotic and random. 

14 hours ago, Coil said:

I sometimes think that they still read some religious books because they make the right conclusions.

Discoveries aren't conclusions they are observations, the observations drive the conclusions. No discovery has come from the bible or religion, religion takes progress backwards.

14 hours ago, Coil said:

Only their disadvantage is that they still see energy and matter, and that behind all this there is the omnipresent Consciousness-Force that causes all particles to rotate and be connected together and in evolution to form intelligent beings from primary elements, they still have to open it.

They see energy and matter, you said it yourself. That's real world evidence, not scripture. I'm not even sure how you mange to twist this announcement into religious nonsense. You're over compensating for all that faith lacks. 

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XenoFish
1 hour ago, Dejarma said:

it's like the ridiculous: 'are you a glass empty or a glass full kinda guy' stupid illogical question when trying to determine someone's approach to life!!!!

The glass is completely full. Half water the other half air. 

TechnicallyFull.jpg

Edited by XenoFish
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Dejarma
34 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

The glass is completely full. Half water the other half air. 

what is your point?

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MissJatti

Dinosaurs laid eggs way before chickens came upon this world, so the egg came first

Edited by MissJatti
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Emma_Acid
On 07/09/2018 at 12:50 AM, Noxasa said:

I don't know if people are just kidding or not but everyone does realize that this hypothesis is simply an application of Schrodinger's Cat quantum paradox on the chicken and the egg causality conundrum?  By application of that paradox we can quantumly assume that both the egg and chicken came first at the same time, since time doesn't exist at small enough quantum scales.  Which actually means that time really doesn't exist at all, and is just a perception of our higher ordered consciousness.

You were doing so well until you used the words "higher", "ordered" and "consciousness". 

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Emma_Acid
On 07/09/2018 at 9:50 AM, Coil said:


Well, the scientists made a mistake at first and now correct their mistakes.

I sometimes think that they still read some religious books because they make the right conclusions. Only their disadvantage is that they still see energy and matter, and that behind all this there is the omnipresent Consciousness-Force that causes all particles to rotate and be connected together and in evolution to form intelligent beings from primary elements, they still have to open it.

 

Please point out exactly what modern discovery or invention has come directly from "religious books", and none of this "some scientists were Christians" cop out, that's not what I mean.

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Emma_Acid
On 07/09/2018 at 10:50 AM, John Allanson said:

Love it! Whenever Quantum physicists can't actually solve the problem, they invent a paradox, and it's always "Both!" 

"I don't understand this" would have been quicker to type

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third_eye

So ... is it chicken soup or deep fried chicken in sweet and sour lemon sauce ?

~

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Guyver

Quantum weirdness or no, the idea of the chicken and the egg coming into existence simultaneously is just crazy....isn't it?  Well, wait....that's what the Bible teaches.  People call it special creation.  

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Guyver
On 9/7/2018 at 4:29 AM, Rlyeh said:

The only thinking you do is known as magical thinking. Your religious garbage has no place in science.

Thinking that the chicken and egg could appear simultaneously is magical thinking......so......I don't get the criticism.  

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Coil
6 hours ago, Emma_Acid said:

Please point out exactly what modern discovery or invention has come directly from "religious books", and none of this "some scientists were Christians" cop out, that's not what I mean.


Well, the first thing that is discussed here is an egg or a chicken and we know from religion that the universe came out of a world, golden egg. In the photo it is surrounded by snake - a symbol of chaos and unordered energy of science. Here to you the second that science took from religion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_egg

220px-Orphic-egg.png



The third thing that I found is the theory of superstrings that every object in the universe is connected to all other objects and fields and this was previously known to the spiritual people that all beings, objects and God are interconnected by invisible threads.

Spoiler

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images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSQqWJyqdLKA1e4SlQt31_

1*dUzL--B0Y_4rhex9AmG0BQ.jpeg

 

 

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XenoFish

Talk about filling in the blanks with ones own magical thinking. 

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taniwha
10 hours ago, MissJatti said:

Dinosaurs laid eggs way before chickens came upon this world, so the egg came first

So, first there was an egg, then from this hatched a dinosaur?

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Rlyeh
2 hours ago, Coil said:

The third thing that I found is the theory of superstrings that every object in the universe is connected to all other objects and fields and this was previously known to the spiritual people that all beings, objects and God are interconnected by invisible threads.

Goes to show you haven't looked into it much.

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Tatetopa

To steal an idea from Captain Kirk and the  Kobyashi Maru solution: forget about the implied assumption that it is a chicken egg.  The egg came first about 3.5 billion years ago as the revolution of sexual reproduction rather than cell division.  Eggs predate chickens by 3.5 billion years; that is if the reference frame is not accelerating I guess.

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Tatetopa
2 hours ago, Coil said:

The third thing that I found is the theory of superstrings that every object in the universe is connected to all other objects and fields and this was previously known to the spiritual people that all beings, objects and God are interconnected by invisible threads.

No, that is popular mystical writing.   Bonus facts Astrology is not astronomy, Numerology is not mathematics,  

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