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Carlos Allende

10 Questions for Atheists / Angry Agnostics

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Carlos Allende

_(Rides into Dodge, hands moderator shooting irons)_

    I love the arguments between atheists and religious people. They’re one of the things I love most in this life, notwithstanding that they’re at a perennial deadlock, and always will be.  If the atheists were sufficiently wise, they’d see that religion is an infallible, implicate truth, albeit totally personal, and that’s a good enough rationale for anyone. If the religious people were wise enough they’d just say, ‘Yeah whatever, we’re 2 cool 4 skool, m8’.

   But I’ve always thought, atheists are far too impersonal. Anyone can be an atheist: all you’ve got to do is naysay, apply basic logic and reasoning. And this is fine, if all you want to do is give heavy-handed religious doctrine a kicking. But in regard to building bridges and rooting out human solidarity, it’s a stinker. There’s a reason Sartre had to tack ‘Existentialism and Human Emotions’ onto ‘Being and Nothingness’.

   Now, personally, I’m more of a religious character than an atheist. I like to think I’ve got the romantic, lateral thinking of a God-botherer while still having the stubborn desire for a neat, orderly society that marks an atheist. I want to bring out the best in them university-centric Dawkins-acolytes, make them human again.

   With that in mind, I’ve prepared ten Voight Kampff questions that could –maybe-- prove that atheists ‘get’ where those dissatisfied with secular society are coming from, even roughly. And be aware, _this is not an ambush._ I will not use any answers to start a fight, and advise others to play nice also. Why? Because I’m genuinely fascinated.

1)      Prioritise the following around which is the biggest threat to civilisation:

·         Religion

·         Global Warming / natural disaster

·         Capitalism

·         General immorality

·         War

·         Disease

·         Other

2)      You’re walking in the middle of nowhere, alone except for an anonymous old man walking a few paces in front. He’s stricken by a heart attack, and falls to the pavement in front of you, apparently dying. In his delirious state, he sees you as an angel, and desperately asks you to absolve his sins. He refuses to change the subject, or hear the truth. Do you play along, and absolve him? Do you ask what the sins consist of? Do you ignore him?

3)      Which inspirational / profound book would you choose to leave in hotel rooms in lieu of the Gideon’s Bible?

4)       Which would be more likely to convince you of the reality of God or the afterlife –scientific proof ---or having a days-long dream which is indistinguishable from reality, in which you’re reunited with your dead loved ones?

5)      Your missus / boyfriend wants to get married in a church. Problem?

6)      How do you explain to a small child that there’s no God or afterlife, without their permanently associating you with bad news?

7)      Are you sure you’re not claiming to be an atheist simply out of the satisfaction that comes from being contrarian? Please confirm you’re not automatically inclined to be contrarian by avowing your love for the following universally loved things:

·         Chocolate

·         Elvis

·         Star Wars

·         The internet

·         Puppy dogs

8)      The Vatican employs Robert Powell to reprise his role as Jesus of Nazareth, blue contact lenses and all. Do you agree to a stare-out contest with him? If you win, Catholicism will be disbanded across the world. However, if _he_ wins, you will be required to kneel and kiss the Pope’s hand in front of all the world’s media.

9)      What’s your favourite secular motto that you think religious people will relate to?

10)     You’re a rozzer, in hot pursuit of a scuzzball who’s robbed a charity collection tin. He flees inside a church and hides somewhere in the eerie grey shadows. As you conduct your search, do you remove your hat as a mark of respect to the church?   

 

wink 2.jpg

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XenoFish

my answer

12x3vt.jpg

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and then

*sigh*  Here we go.  I'm guessing 10 pages ;)  My take is that it's nearly impossible to convert people on either side and for Christians, we aren't even commanded to do it.  People, once they here Christ's message, either are drawn to it or they aren't.  No harm, no foul.  The arguments seem to get heated and Atheists seem to believe that the absence of proof matters in a spiritual endeavor when in reality it is faith in the unseen that we are drawn to.  No answer to this and no "winners" in the argument. 

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Rlyeh

1) Disease, War, Natural disaster. Don't have much of an opinion on capitalism.

2) Phone the emergency number.

3) A dictionary or a phone book.

4) Scientific evidence. Being reunited with my dead relatives wouldn't convince me of God. 

5) I don't have a missus, so getting married let alone in a church would be a problem. 

6) Same way you tell them Santa is make believe.

Edited by Rlyeh
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danydandan

What the feck is an angry Agnostic?

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and then
5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

my answer

12x3vt.jpg

Here's the thing, though.  It's the same for everyone.  We are all "fellow travelers to the grave", as Dickens said.  I think about my end more now than I ever have as I approach 60 and I don't fear it.  I only fear becoming disabled to the point of needing others to care for me.  My life is simple and relatively quiet.  Walking at night under the open sky - usually cloudy - has become my peace.  The stars, wind and night sounds are intermittent bonuses.  I've found few great moments of clarity where I feel like I've finally gotten the answers to why I'm here.  We all search for that knowing.  I think I've just become content to let it all unfold as it will and to try my best to be thankful for each breath and every new day.  Focusing on gratitude, especially in bad times, gives me peace.  There will be time enough to mourn when circumstances really call for it.  Until then, today is all I have and all I need.

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and then
1 minute ago, danydandan said:

What the feck is an angry Agnostic?

I'm curious about that one too.  I thought of Agnostics as being those who are puzzled and looking for clarity or not interested enough to search for God.  I don't think I've ever met an angry one.

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spartan max2

1) global warming 

General immorality

War

Disease

Religion

Capitalism

 

2) play along and call the cops.

3) I probs wouldn't have any books. Just a list of resources people could use for mental illness relater problems. Drug addictions, anxiety, etc. Just in case lol

4) scientific proof

5) nope

6) just say there is no God and explain that your one life it up to you.

7) I love all of these but the elves  lol. Elves are pricks.

8) I do not know who robert Powell is

9) I don't really have a motto lol

10) only if asked.

Edited by spartan max2
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sci-nerd
51 minutes ago, Carlos Allende said:

1)      Prioritise the following around which is the biggest threat to civilisation:

·     1   Religion
·     5   Global Warming / natural disaster
·     2   Capitalism
·     7   General immorality
·     6   War
·     3   Disease
·     4   Other: Plastic pollution

51 minutes ago, Carlos Allende said:

Do you play along, and absolve him?

Yes. What can it hurt to give an old man peace of mind to die.

51 minutes ago, Carlos Allende said:

3)      Which inspirational / profound book would you choose to leave in hotel rooms in lieu of the Gideon’s Bible?

None.

51 minutes ago, Carlos Allende said:

4)       Which would be more likely to convince you of the reality of God or the afterlife –scientific proof ---or having a days-long dream which is indistinguishable from reality, in which you’re reunited with your dead loved ones?

None.

51 minutes ago, Carlos Allende said:

5)      Your missus / boyfriend wants to get married in a church. Problem?

Yes. I'd never marry.

51 minutes ago, Carlos Allende said:

6)      How do you explain to a small child that there’s no God or afterlife, without their permanently associating you with bad news?

Avoid the subject untill they're old enough to handle the truth. Worked well with my own.

51 minutes ago, Carlos Allende said:

7)      Are you sure you’re not claiming to be an atheist simply out of the satisfaction that comes from being contrarian? Please confirm you’re not automatically inclined to be contrarian by avowing your love for the following universally loved things:

·         Chocolate: Hate sweets
·         Elvis: No thanks
·         Star Wars: 1st 3 were the best (1977-1983)
·         The internet: Luv it!
·         Puppy dogs: Nah

51 minutes ago, Carlos Allende said:

8)      The Vatican employs Robert Powell to reprise his role as Jesus of Nazareth, blue contact lenses and all. Do you agree to a stare-out contest with him? If you win, Catholicism will be disbanded across the world. However, if _he_ wins, you will be required to kneel and kiss the Pope’s hand in front of all the world’s media.

Not applicable.

51 minutes ago, Carlos Allende said:

9)      What’s your favourite secular motto that you think religious people will relate to?

"I know, that I know nothing." (Socrates)

51 minutes ago, Carlos Allende said:

10)     You’re a rozzer, in hot pursuit of a scuzzball who’s robbed a charity collection tin. He flees inside a church and hides somewhere in the eerie grey shadows. As you conduct your search, do you remove your hat as a mark of respect to the church?

No.

 

Edited by sci-nerd
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danydandan
31 minutes ago, and then said:

I'm curious about that one too.  I thought of Agnostics as being those who are puzzled and looking for clarity or not interested enough to search for God.  I don't think I've ever met an angry one.

I'd consider myself an Agnostic Theist, I don't get angry about debating God.

I've never heard of a pyssed off Agnostic. In regards to the question of God.

Edited by danydandan
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Essan
1 hour ago, Carlos Allende said:

3)      Which inspirational / profound book would you choose to leave in hotel rooms in lieu of the Gideon’s Bible?

Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy
 

Quote

9)      What’s your favourite secular motto that you think religious people will relate to?


Be nice.  It costs nothing but it might just save the world.  

(However it won't necessarily bring you riches beyond desire nor power over anyone at all, hence why I assume it's not popular with religious leaders ;) )

Edited by Essan
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danydandan
1 hour ago, Carlos Allende said:

)      Prioritise the following around which is the biggest threat to civilisation:

War, Disease, Climate Change, the rest are irrelevant.

1 hour ago, Carlos Allende said:

You’re walking in the middle of nowhere, alone except for an anonymous old man walking a few paces in front. He’s stricken by a heart attack, and falls to the pavement in front of you, apparently dying. In his delirious state, he sees you as an angel, and desperately asks you to absolve his sins. He refuses to change the subject, or hear the truth. Do you play along, and absolve him? Do you ask what the sins consist of? Do you ignore him?

No harm in granting a dieing man some absolution, is there?

1 hour ago, Carlos Allende said:

Which inspirational / profound book would you choose to leave in hotel rooms in lieu of the Gideon’s Bible?

Rodger Penrose's Road to Reality. Or the Feynman Lectures.

1 hour ago, Carlos Allende said:

Which would be more likely to convince you of the reality of God or the afterlife –scientific proof ---or having a days-long dream which is indistinguishable from reality, in which you’re reunited with your dead loved ones?

Obviously Scientific proof. If anyone says they would not accept any proof they are clowns.

1 hour ago, Carlos Allende said:

Your missus / boyfriend wants to get married in a church. Problem?

Already Married, didn't have a problem then don't have one now.

1 hour ago, Carlos Allende said:

How do you explain to a small child that there’s no God or afterlife, without their permanently associating you with bad news?

Santa Claus way, however I'd rather they figure stuff out for themselves.

1 hour ago, Carlos Allende said:

Are you sure you’re not claiming to be an atheist simply out of the satisfaction that comes from being contrarian? Please confirm you’re not automatically inclined to be contrarian by avowing your love for the following universally loved things:

·         Chocolate

·         Elvis

·         Star Wars

·         The internet

·         Puppy dogs

Not an Atheist, I'm an angry Agnostic apparently. I only love Dogs, I don't care for Elvis or his music, the rest are inanimate objects.

1 hour ago, Carlos Allende said:

The Vatican employs Robert Powell to reprise his role as Jesus of Nazareth, blue contact lenses and all. Do you agree to a stare-out contest with him? If you win, Catholicism will be disbanded across the world. However, if _he_ wins, you will be required to kneel and kiss the Pope’s hand in front of all the world’s media.

Don't know who Robert Powell is.

1 hour ago, Carlos Allende said:

What’s your favourite secular motto that you think religious people will relate to?

Love one another.

1 hour ago, Carlos Allende said:

You’re a rozzer, in hot pursuit of a scuzzball who’s robbed a charity collection tin. He flees inside a church and hides somewhere in the eerie grey shadows. As you conduct your search, do you remove your hat as a mark of respect to the church?   

Yes. Respect should be shown I think.

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sci-nerd
4 minutes ago, danydandan said:

If anyone says they would not accept any proof they are clowns.

Proof is a matter of interpretation and consensus.

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danydandan
1 minute ago, sci-nerd said:

Proof is a matter of interpretation and consensus.

Come on man. The op is clearly stating that "would you accept God if there were undeniable Scientific proof". S/he means hypothetically the proof is accepted. This isn't a discussion on Scientific proof or terminology.

All they are asking is, I'll ask you too, if there was accepted evidence and undeniable Scientific proof of God would you accept it?

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Essan

Undeniable scientific proof of god first demands an agreed definition of god.  For which there is none.   It varies from a bloke with a white beard who lives on a hill top, demands absolute obedience and smites anyone whom he disagrees with with lightning bolts, to an ineffable "something" that may have existed to create the Big Bang.   And all points in between.

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sci-nerd
1 minute ago, danydandan said:

Come on man. The op is clearly stating that "would you accept God if there were undeniable Scientific proof". S/he means hypothetically the proof is accepted. This isn't a discussion on Scientific proof or terminology.

All they are asking is, I'll ask you too, if there was accepted evidence and undeniable Scientific proof of God would you accept it?

I agree, but "undeniable proof" will always be a matter of perception and interpretation. Like if you met God himself, and he made you happy and gave you all you needed. It still would not prove God's existence. There would still be a few options that could explain it otherwise. Like prolonged hallucinations or even virtual reality.

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XenoFish
1 hour ago, Carlos Allende said:

 

1)      Prioritise the following around which is the biggest threat to civilisation:

Humanity

2)      You’re walking in the middle of nowhere, alone except for an anonymous old man walking a few paces in front. He’s stricken by a heart attack, and falls to the pavement in front of you, apparently dying. In his delirious state, he sees you as an angel, and desperately asks you to absolve his sins. He refuses to change the subject, or hear the truth. Do you play along, and absolve him? Do you ask what the sins consist of? Do you ignore him?

I've already done something similar...... Quick question. Do I get to be dressed as the grim reaper? Scythe and all?

3)      Which inspirational / profound book would you choose to leave in hotel rooms in lieu of the Gideon’s Bible?

The Necronmicon

4)       Which would be more likely to convince you of the reality of God or the afterlife –scientific proof ---or having a days-long dream which is indistinguishable from reality, in which you’re reunited with your dead loved ones?

I actually become a class 4 free roaming vapor

5)      Your missus / boyfriend wants to get married in a church. Problem?

Done that already.

6)      How do you explain to a small child that there’s no God or afterlife, without their permanently associating you with bad news?

Tell them you don't know. Because no one knows.

7)      Are you sure you’re not claiming to be an atheist simply out of the satisfaction that comes from being contrarian? Please confirm you’re not automatically inclined to be contrarian by avowing your love for the following universally loved things:

·         Chocolate

·         Elvis

·         Star Wars

·         The internet

·         Puppy dogs

All of these choices suck.

8)      The Vatican employs Robert Powell to reprise his role as Jesus of Nazareth, blue contact lenses and all. Do you agree to a stare-out contest with him? If you win, Catholicism will be disbanded across the world. However, if _he_ wins, you will be required to kneel and kiss the Pope’s hand in front of all the world’s media.

What the hell kinda question is this. Kissing the Pope's hand is like asking for a favor from the worlds biggest mob boss....which is kinda true.

9)      What’s your favourite secular motto that you think religious people will relate to?

Don't know. Don't care.

10)     You’re a rozzer, in hot pursuit of a scuzzball who’s robbed a charity collection tin. He flees inside a church and hides somewhere in the eerie grey shadows. As you conduct your search, do you remove your hat as a mark of respect to the church?   

I lock the church doors and burn the place down. 

 

Edited by XenoFish
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Orphalesion
34 minutes ago, and then said:

I'm curious about that one too.  I thought of Agnostics as being those who are puzzled and looking for clarity or not interested enough to search for God.  I don't think I've ever met an angry one.

Well I'm an agnostic (though not angry) because I do not believe that it's possible for any religion created by humans to truly and completely grasp the nature/will of the Divine.

So neither being an atheist nor an "angry Agnostic" I'm not sure whether I'm allowed to answer the questions. But since I like to voice my opinion I'll do so anyway.

1) Probably Global Warming, but personally I'm more scared of War, which is really the only thing I'm mortally afraid of. And I don't mean dying in a war, but living in one.
2) Yes, I'd play along. No point in distressing a dying person. Do you really think Atheists and Agnostics are people who go around [purposely distressing the dying?
3)The Color Purple. Found more of "god" in there than in the Bible.
4)I don't think God or the Afterlife can be proven (or disproven) by Science. That's like the completely different approach. Just like trying to prove  pseudo-history using the Bible.
5)I plan very much to get married in a church, because I want a large and traditional wedding. I've already talked to some priests about the possibility of a same-sex blessing and received positive feedback.
6) I say what I'll plan to tell my children "I believe there is something, some people disagree, many people have tried to interpret it in many different ways, nobody is sure. What do you think?" Then I let them make up their own mind about the whole topic, as it should be, imho.
7) I like chocolate, the internet, puppies and the original three star Wars movies. Not that much of a fan of Elvis, but I like some songs.
8)If he existed Jesus, as a Middle Eastern Hebrew, is very unlikely to have had blue eyes.I also highly doubt the Vatican would engage in such a childish bet.
9)What's a secular motto? 
10)No? I don't really do that when entering a church. It's a meaningless gesture.

These questions are kinda....bad.

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XenoFish

You just make your 666 posts in this very thread Orphalesion.

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danydandan
2 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

I agree, but "undeniable proof" will always be a matter of perception and interpretation. Like if you met God himself, and he made you happy and gave you all you needed. It still would not prove God's existence. There would still be a few options that could explain it otherwise. Like prolonged hallucinations or even virtual reality.

This isn't subjective proof we are talking about, we are talking about undeniable Scientific proof. Basically as accepted that the Earth rotates around the moon or that the Earth is not flat.

I noticed you still haven't answered the question.

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sci-nerd
2 minutes ago, danydandan said:

This isn't subjective proof we are talking about, we are talking about undeniable Scientific proof. Basically as accepted that the Earth rotates around the moon or that the Earth is not flat.

Doesn't matter if the whole world is virtual.

2 minutes ago, danydandan said:

I noticed you still haven't answered the question.

What question?

 

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Orphalesion
5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You just make your 666 posts in this very thread Orphalesion.

hahahahahaha

To bad it wasn't the 616th post...

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danydandan
12 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

All they are asking is, I'll ask you too, if there was accepted evidence and undeniable Scientific proof of God would you accept it?

 

4 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

What question?

The above one.

I see your a fan of the ole misdirection tactic, that the Religious zealots are so often accused of being in favour of.

Edited by danydandan

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sci-nerd
6 minutes ago, danydandan said:

if there was accepted evidence and undeniable Scientific proof of God would you accept it?

No. I would refer to the simulation hypothesis as the obvious logic answer.

But I like Jesus, or rather Yeshua ;)

Edited by sci-nerd

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RAyMO
1 hour ago, Carlos Allende said:

1)      Prioritise the following around which is the biggest threat to civilisation:

·         War, Global Warming / natural disaster, Religion,Capitalism, Disease,General immorality, Other

2)      You’re walking in the middle of nowhere, alone except for an anonymous old man walking a few paces in front. He’s stricken by a heart attack, and falls to the pavement in front of you, apparently dying. In his delirious state, he sees you as an angel, and desperately asks you to absolve his sins. He refuses to change the subject, or hear the truth. Do you play along, and absolve him? Do you ask what the sins consist of? Do you ignore him?

          play along, and absolve him - if it helps him why not?

3)      Which inspirational / profound book would you choose to leave in hotel rooms in lieu of the Gideon’s Bible? None - not up to me to provide hotel reading material

4)       Which would be more likely to convince you of the reality of God or the afterlife –scientific proof ---or having a days-long dream which is indistinguishable from reality, in which you’re reunited with your dead loved ones? scientific proof - the other is meaningless

5)      Your missus / boyfriend wants to get married in a church. Problem? She did - no problem - its a institutions that offers marriage ceremonies afterall

6)      How do you explain to a small child that there’s no God or afterlife, without their permanently associating you with bad news? Didn't have to, I'm Atheist, her indoors is christian - I told the kids I didn't believe, she told them she did - the children choose their own path - when they were ready

7)      Are you sure you’re not claiming to be an atheist simply out of the satisfaction that comes from being contrarian? Please confirm you’re not automatically inclined to be contrarian by avowing your love for the following universally loved things:Love is too strong a word for anything on this list except maybe the internet. I can and do get by without the others on a daily basis.

·         Chocolate

·         Elvis

·         Star Wars

·         The internet

·         Puppy dogs

8)      The Vatican employs Robert Powell to reprise his role as Jesus of Nazareth, blue contact lenses and all. Do you agree to a stare-out contest with him? If you win, Catholicism will be disbanded across the world. However, if _he_ wins, you will be required to kneel and kiss the Pope’s hand in front of all the world’s media. Silly game - not playing

9)      What’s your favourite secular motto that you think religious people will relate to? my favourite motto is religious, I think - "do onto others as you would have them do unto you". It doesn't concern me in the slightest that is biblical - again I think.

10)     You’re a rozzer, in hot pursuit of a scuzzball who’s robbed a charity collection tin. He flees inside a church and hides somewhere in the eerie grey shadows. As you conduct your search, do you remove your hat as a mark of respect to the church? In normal circumstances I would but in this example probably would not enter my mind to do so.  

Answers as above - but what is the point?

Edited by RAyMO
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