10 Questions for Atheists / Angry Agnostics

[docyabut2]

On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 10:28 PM, psyche101 said:

Nothing like that doccy. The elements that our bodies are made of were crated in supernova yes, evolution took care of the rest over great time lines. 

A pathogen could wipe us out, we aren't expecting to have to leave the earth over natural demise for a coupe billion years that leaves us quite some wiggle room. 

There is some evidence that a person`s life can go on in the organs.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-558271/Can-really-transplant-human-soul.html

 

[docyabut2]

1 hour ago, rodentraiser said:

I used to think reincarnation was pretty much hogwash. Then one day I got on one of those sites where they posted 'the creepiest things your kids have ever said to you'. It wasn't the article so much that got my attention. It was the comments to the article, hundreds and hundreds of them giving examples of "creepy" things their kids said. Over and over and over kids would tell their parents about their 'other mom' or where they lived 'before coming here'. I was pretty much blown away and so now I'm beginning to wonder if we really are reincarnated when we die.

As to the billions of people who have already lived or are living now, I read something interesting about that, too. One mother overheard her daughter say something about deciding to come to Earth this time and she thought having hands was the greatest thing ever.

It may be we are one of a number of universes and the souls of us all are scattered all through the stars.

By the way, if you want to read some of the things kids have said, don't look up reincarnation. Just google "creepy things kids say" and start reading.

I to don't want to believe in reincarnation, that we have to go it over and over it again  I like to believe there`s a heaven where we can stay

[danydandan]

44 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

There is some evidence that a person`s life can go on in the organs.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-558271/Can-really-transplant-human-soul.html

 

Seriously? An eight year old article from the dailymail?

[docyabut2]

8 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Seriously? An eight year old article from the dailymail?

Its a true article of people taking organs:)

[danydandan]

37 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

Its a true article of people taking organs:)

Quote

In one celebrated case uncovered by Professor Schwartz's team, an 18-year-old boy who wrote poetry, played music and composed songs was killed in a car crash. A year after he died, his parents came across a tape of a song he had written, entitled, Danny, My Heart Is Yours.

In his haunting lyrics, the boy sang about how he felt destined to die and donate his heart. After his death, his heart was transplanted into an 18-year-old girl - named Danielle.

When the boy's parents met Danielle, they played some of his music and she, despite never having heard the song before, knew the words and was able to complete the lyrics.

Seriously?

Quote

But then again, modern biology has a guilty little secret: it has, as yet, no viable theory to explain how we store memories and how we produce consciousness.

Really?

Quote

Researchers have been able to trace memory down to the structural and even the molecular level in recent years, showing that memories are stored throughout many brain structures in the connections between neurons, and can even depend on a single molecule for their long-term stability.

https://www.livescience.com/32798-how-are-memories-stored-in-the-brain.html

Quote

Memories aren’t stored in just one part of the brain. Different types are stored across different, interconnected brain regions. For explicit memories – which are about events that happened to you (episodic), as well as general facts and information (semantic) – there are three important areas of the brain: the hippocampus, the neocortex and the amygdala. Implicit memories, such as motor memories, rely on the basal ganglia and cerebellum. Short-term working memory relies most heavily on the prefrontal cortex.

https://qbi.uq.edu.au/brain-basics/memory/where-are-memories-stored

How and why we developed consciousness hasn't been established as of yet. But it's clearly a result of our evolution, by that I mean we had to become more aware of our surroundings to better survive, we also had to become more self aware to become more aware of our surroundings. Thus this self awareness developed as a result of of being more aware of our surroundings, is our consciousness. It's all to do with survival of the fittest. In my opinion. How it happened is obviously up for debate, but why I think is self evident.

Edited October 20, 2018 by danydandan

[docyabut2]

48 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Seriously?

Really?

https://www.livescience.com/32798-how-are-memories-stored-in-the-brain.html

https://qbi.uq.edu.au/brain-basics/memory/where-are-memories-stored

How and why we developed consciousness hasn't been established as of yet. But it's clearly a result of our evolution, by that I mean we had to become more aware of our surroundings to better survive, we also had to become more self aware to become more aware of our surroundings. Thus this self awareness developed as a result of of being more aware of our surroundings, is our consciousness. It's all to do with survival of the fittest. In my opinion. How it happened is obviously up for debate, but why I think is self evident.

memory cells:)

[danydandan]

2 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

memory cells:)

When I walk into a room sometimes I forget why....but in a minute or two I'll remember.

It's because my room memories are stored in my feet and it takes a few minutes for the memories to upload to my brain. Now I get it.

[psyche101]

On 10/21/2018 at 6:12 AM, docyabut2 said:

There is some evidence that a person`s life can go on in the organs.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-558271/Can-really-transplant-human-soul.html

 

That's not evidence. Schwartz is a parapsychologist, and he is claiming some anecdotes. We have actually filmed a memory being chemically stored which doesn't support his all over the body idea. 

Watch chemicals turn into memories - the first time this has ever been recorded.

[docyabut2]

On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 6:08 PM, danydandan said:

When I walk into a room sometimes I forget why....but in a minute or two I'll remember.

It's because my room memories are stored in my feet and it takes a few minutes for the memories to upload to my brain. Now I get it.

To me it shows the Atheists only believe in a one life,  but Christians also  believe in only one life that go to heaven,  so I believe in Jesus

[docyabut2]

23 hours ago, psyche101 said:

That's not evidence. Schwartz is a parapsychologist, and he is claiming some anecdotes. We have actually filmed a memory being chemically stored which doesn't support his all over the body idea. 

Watch chemicals turn into memories - the first time this has ever been recorded.

I believe our lives go on in memory cells that go on from our ancestors and to our future future children's ,and our memory  lives go on and on.:)

Edited October 23, 2018 by docyabut2

[psyche101]

32 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

To me it shows the Atheists only believe in a one life, 

That's not a secret actually. 

And it makes this one existance more special knowing its all there is. 

32 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

but Christians also  believe in only one life that go to heaven,  so I believe in Jesus

You can run with what appeals to you but it doesnt make it true. I want a Ferrari, believing I should have one doesn't get me one. 

[andrew.t]

1)     War and disease - because I believe you can say they are connected. I imagine a war where no conventional weapons will be used but rather we'll have our drinking water infested. A      checmical/bilogical war.

      Global Warming / natural disaster

      Religion - religion itself will not end the world but religion beliefs and laws could heavily influence the outcome of a leader's decision

     General Mortality

     Capitalism

     Other

2)     Yes of course I will play along with his requests. Just because I don't believe in that it does not mean I cannot just play the role and help him have a more comfortable death. It is more important to have him leave more peaceful than just my whatever beliefs are. I think I would be doing something good and that is more important right in that moment than my personal views on the matter.

3)     Don't know so many books, but I have recently read The Alchemist which I think could be a decent replacement for the bible. But I think the bible is not bad either.

4)     The days-long dream.

5)     Hmm, a tough one. But I would try not to make it a problem.

6)     I would not try to explain that because I do not know if there is realy is or not God or afterlife.

7)    Puppy dogs, cholcolate andof course the internet. I ike Elvis and Star Wars but not necessarily a big fan.

8)    

9)    I'm not sure... We are all one, maybe?

10)     I don't think I would do that. 

[Carlos Allende]

On 11/3/2018 at 3:33 PM, andrew.t said:

I imagine a war where no conventional weapons will be used but rather we'll have our drinking water infested. A      checmical/bilogical war.

I've had this same thought. You'd think people would be spooked after Salisbury. 

Cool answers.

[Alchopwn]

I'll play along.

(1) In order of threat   1. War (Nukes can end everything very quickly)  2.  Natural Disaster/Global Warming (A supervolcano erruption will end civilization), 3. Religion (Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you perform atrocities.  Plus religion promotes overpopolation and poverty) 4. Disease (While disease poses a huge threat, religion promotes the poverty and ignorance that allows disease to flourish and spread), 5 Capitalism (Pollution is a problem), 6 General Immorality (has always been with us, and generally the people who try to make other people conform to their idea of morality are the bigger threat to civilization).

(2) I don't care what the old man is gibbering about, I will do my best to save his life, then he can confess to a witchdoctor of his choosing.

(3) An internet connection.  Then you have access to every book and form of entertainment ever; even the goddamned Gideons.

(4)  Scientific proof.  Subjective experiences are interesting, but nothing more than that.

(5) Obviously I am against giving any religion any money for any reason, so no church wedding.  

(6) It isn't my job to raise other people's children. I won't lie to a child that I don't think God exists tho, but I would prefer to turn the conversation into a more general and philosophical one rather than outright poo-pooing their naive faith.  I prefer to ask them questions that  faith cannot resolve, and thus educate them.

(7) I like all those things, but with a caveat on Star Wars.  I liked the first 3 movies, but nothing since, well, Rogue 1 was okay, I guess, but the rest has been shitful.

(8) Yes I will take that challenge and I would will myself to go blind before I blink and lose it.  As Robert Powell is wearing blue contacts and I am not, the odds are in my favor.  Wiping out the influence of the Catholic church would be brilliant, all those lies and overpopulation could be done away with, plus we could sue the institution and get proper justice for all its sex crime victims at long last.   I am totally in favor of me winning this one, regardless of the physical cost to myself; it would be a small price to pay for a general good for my species.

(9) You can send a thief to catch a thief but you can't send a fool to do anything.

(10)  If I am in England with a blue tit on my head and the criminal I am chasing runs into a church, I normally need permission to enter the place, or a warrant, to pursue them.  If I had that, then I would not remove my hat, as that would mean I was out of uniform and might compromise my arrest powers in court.

[Mr Walker]

On 13/10/2018 at 10:11 PM, rodentraiser said:

I'll play.

 

9)    Seven Tenets to live by:

• One should strive to act with compassion and empathy towards all creatures in accordance with reason.
• The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
• One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
• The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
• Beliefs should conform to our best scientific understanding of the world. We should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit our beliefs.
• People are fallible. If we make a mistake, we should do our best to rectify it and remediate any harm that may have been caused.
• Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

 

reading your interesting post these tenets intrigued me

I understand why you might hold them but i would debate their  morality  and practicality 

Number one sounds good but is too value dependent and imprecise 

It really means you want to treat other peole how YOU want to be treated, not how THEY might want to be treated.

And, for example, with abortion to whom does your compassion and empathy extend? the mother or the unborn? and why? 

If you have to chose between two lives , on what basis do you make  the decision ? Does it mean you do not eat meat ? 

Number two needs to define "justice" which is not an easy thing to do  Does it mean you rate justice above, on one hand, compassion, or on the other hand, retribution  

Number 3 is simply wrong A human being is always a  part of a larger "body corporate"  and when you do things with your body which incur costs, be they ; physical financial or emotional, on others in your community your rights must be curtailed. The one exception here is for a hermit living totally alone  

In number 4 there ARE no natural and inherent human freedoms All our rights and freedoms are legal and social constructs, designed and evolved to facilitate a strong and safe community in which individuals can be safe, and prosper.So  your right to offend another through speech is bounded by how tolerant your society is on different issues   (western societies are growing increasingly intolerant of divergent views and opinions ) A famous philosopher once said tha t our own freedoms begin to cease when the y begin to restrict the freedoms of another. it is striking the right balance which is difficult but essential. 

Beliefs have nothing to do with science We construct beliefs to meet the diverse needs of our self aware consciousness and to provide hypothetical answers to questions which science cannot yet answer  if they fit science that is good but if they do not, then the y serve another, and perhaps  greater, purpose of increasing our well being happiness and  abilty to cope with life 

I agree with your penultimate point 

The last one is good in theory but not in practice Laws have purpose and when you break a law out of compassion you may do great harm You are also breaking a written social contract as the citizen of a democracy between yourself and the society of which you are a part.

Yep sometimes you have to do this but here WILL be consequences.  

 

[aztek]

On 9/4/2018 at 3:11 PM, Carlos Allende said:

_(Rides into Dodge, hands moderator shooting irons)_

    I love the arguments between atheists and religious people. They’re one of the things I love most in this life, notwithstanding that they’re at a perennial deadlock, and always will be.  If the atheists were sufficiently wise, they’d see that religion is an infallible, implicate truth, albeit totally personal, and that’s a good enough rationale for anyone. If the religious people were wise enough they’d just say, ‘Yeah whatever, we’re 2 cool 4 skool, m8’.

   But I’ve always thought, atheists are far too impersonal. Anyone can be an atheist: all you’ve got to do is naysay, apply basic logic and reasoning. And this is fine, if all you want to do is give heavy-handed religious doctrine a kicking. But in regard to building bridges and rooting out human solidarity, it’s a stinker. There’s a reason Sartre had to tack ‘Existentialism and Human Emotions’ onto ‘Being and Nothingness’.

   Now, personally, I’m more of a religious character than an atheist. I like to think I’ve got the romantic, lateral thinking of a God-botherer while still having the stubborn desire for a neat, orderly society that marks an atheist. I want to bring out the best in them university-centric Dawkins-acolytes, make them human again.

   With that in mind, I’ve prepared ten Voight Kampff questions that could –maybe-- prove that atheists ‘get’ where those dissatisfied with secular society are coming from, even roughly. And be aware, _this is not an ambush._ I will not use any answers to start a fight, and advise others to play nice also. Why? Because I’m genuinely fascinated.

1)      Prioritise the following around which is the biggest threat to civilisation:

·         Religion

·         Global Warming / natural disaster

·         Capitalism

·         General immorality

·         War

·         Disease

·         Other

2)      You’re walking in the middle of nowhere, alone except for an anonymous old man walking a few paces in front. He’s stricken by a heart attack, and falls to the pavement in front of you, apparently dying. In his delirious state, he sees you as an angel, and desperately asks you to absolve his sins. He refuses to change the subject, or hear the truth. Do you play along, and absolve him? Do you ask what the sins consist of? Do you ignore him?

3)      Which inspirational / profound book would you choose to leave in hotel rooms in lieu of the Gideon’s Bible?

4)       Which would be more likely to convince you of the reality of God or the afterlife –scientific proof ---or having a days-long dream which is indistinguishable from reality, in which you’re reunited with your dead loved ones?

5)      Your missus / boyfriend wants to get married in a church. Problem?

6)      How do you explain to a small child that there’s no God or afterlife, without their permanently associating you with bad news?

7)      Are you sure you’re not claiming to be an atheist simply out of the satisfaction that comes from being contrarian? Please confirm you’re not automatically inclined to be contrarian by avowing your love for the following universally loved things:

·         Chocolate

·         Elvis

·         Star Wars

·         The internet

·         Puppy dogs

8)      The Vatican employs Robert Powell to reprise his role as Jesus of Nazareth, blue contact lenses and all. Do you agree to a stare-out contest with him? If you win, Catholicism will be disbanded across the world. However, if _he_ wins, you will be required to kneel and kiss the Pope’s hand in front of all the world’s media.

9)      What’s your favourite secular motto that you think religious people will relate to?

10)     You’re a rozzer, in hot pursuit of a scuzzball who’s robbed a charity collection tin. He flees inside a church and hides somewhere in the eerie grey shadows. As you conduct your search, do you remove your hat as a mark of respect to the church?   

 

 

1. other, the rest is in no particular order,.

2 play along

3 local attractions guide 

4 nothing, i'll believe it when i see it

5 no

6 easy, i'll tell them there is no god, no afterlife, only what you yourself can accomplish in your lifetime.

7 dogs

8 yes, and  i will win, thou i could not care less if  Catholicism is affected in any way

9 take care of yourself

10 i'l remove my hat, but i will still search. 

[GLCsector3295]

 I guess if I had a question it would be to the title thread, or pointing back to the title of this thread rather.

 

Why be " Angry " and Agnostic. 

There is nothing wrong with not believing in God, or being Agnostic.  I just don't see the need to get agitated to the point of name calling and or trying to bring others down that do believe in God or a higher power in general.  Why have so much anger or resentment or negativity that one has to be offended at those who do have faith , to the point of wanting to stop , or break what they believe. 

An then another question would be, what do Agnostics feel towards Satanists and Pagan religions. Keep in mind that the two are not the same.