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PsiSeeker

Reason.

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PsiSeeker

Is everything reasonable on some level?  That is, are all phenomena reasonable?  In the event that they are, what does it mean that they are reasonable?  Is showing a mapping to reality sufficient for what is meant by reasonable?  Everything must map to reality by definition of existence.  Are all things that could and do exist in accordance with law of reality?  Is law absolute?  Why? 

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Coil
On 05.09.2018 at 6:39 AM, PsiSeeker said:

Is everything reasonable on some level?  That is, are all phenomena reasonable?  In the event that they are, what does it mean that they are reasonable?  Is showing a mapping to reality sufficient for what is meant by reasonable?  Everything must map to reality by definition of existence.  Are all things that could and do exist in accordance with law of reality?  Is law absolute?  Why? 

Yes, at a certain level, it is reasonable but if you go higher then what was reasonable below will be a lie or insufficient truth over and hence ignorance and lies, relative truth. So if you want absolute truth, you understand where you need to go up.
When a spiritual person wrote a book, he had to rewrite it several times when he went up a level higher because another truth was revealed to him. At that, he did not write from his mind but the higher led him with his hand and revealed to him different levels of consciousness and being.

To the senses it is always true that the sun moves round the earth; this is false to the reason. To the reason it is always true that the earth moves round the sun; this is false to the supreme vision. Neither earth moves nor sun; there is only a change in the relation of sun-consciousness and earth-consciousness.

Some more excerpts from the book:

Spoiler

 

-Knowledge is a child with its achievements; for when it has found out something, it runs about the streets whooping and shouting; Wisdom conceals hers for a long time in a thoughtful and mighty silence.

-To see the composition of the sun or the lines of Mars is doubtless a great achievement; but when thou hast the instrument that can show thee a man's soul as thou seest a picture, then thou wilt smile at the wonders of physical Science as the playthings of babies.

-The beginning and end of things is a conventional term of our experience; in their true existence these terms have no reality, there is no end and no beginning.

-An opinion is neither true nor false, but only serviceable for life or unserviceable; for it is a creation of Time and with time it loses its effect and value. Rise thou above opinion and seek wisdom everlasting.

-Use opinion for life, but let her not bind thy soul in her fetters.

-Every law, however embracing or tyrannous, meets somewhere a contrary law by which its operation can be checked, modified, annulled or eluded.


-The most binding Law of Nature is only a fixed process which the Lord of Nature has framed and uses constantly; the Spirit made it and the Spirit can exceed it, but we must first open the doors of our prison-house and learn to live less in Nature than in the Spirit.

-When I knew nothing, then I abhorred the criminal, sinful and impure, being myself full of crime, sin and impurity; but when I was cleansed and my eyes unsealed, then I bowed down in my spirit before the thief and the murderer and adored the feet of the harlot; for I saw that these souls had accepted the terrible burden of evil and drained for all of us the greater portion of the churned poison of the world-ocean.

 -When thou art able to see how necessary is suffering to final delight, failure to utter effectiveness and retardation to the last rapidity, then thou mayst begin to understand something, however faintly and dimly, of God's workings.

-There is only one soul and one existence; therefore we all see one objectivity only; but there are many knots of mind and ego in the one soul-existence, therefore we all see the one Object in different lights and shadows.

-The perfect cosmic vision and cosmic sentiment is the cure of all error and suffering; but most men succeed only in enlarging the range of their ego.

-Thou hast to learn to bear all the gods within thee and never stagger with their inrush or break under their burden.

-Not result is the purpose of action, but God's eternal delight in becoming, seeing and doing.

https://www.hinduwebsite.com/divinelife/auro/auro_aphorisms.asp

 

 

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PsiSeeker
On 9/7/2018 at 7:40 AM, Coil said:

Yes, at a certain level, it is reasonable but if you go higher then what was reasonable below will be a lie or insufficient truth over and hence ignorance and lies, relative truth.

This implies that truth has local genesis and is global.  Lies and the idea that truth can be lacking in sufficiency is a priori dependent it.  As such they have their genesis in the higher, not the lower.  The cause of ignorance would stem as calculated neglect of the higher too.  This implies that motive exists, which I'll leave to you to illumine.

Quote

So if you want absolute truth, you understand where you need to go up.
When a spiritual person wrote a book, he had to rewrite it several times when he went up a level higher because another truth was revealed to him. At that, he did not write from his mind but the higher led him with his hand and revealed to him different levels of consciousness and being.

This implies that the reader is knowledgeable of the mystic's motive being to their end, and, as such, subject to them, in spite of the mystic gaining greater height.  Evidence of absolute truth is drawn from the belief of what the book represents, from absolute truth, since it is impossible to construe its value from its contents, with the exception of what was written on their level.  Religion and spirituality being prevalent throughout the world then has its cause by the belief of the reader and subjugation of the mystic.  What is this insight you have of the mystic?

Quote

To the senses it is always true that the sun moves round the earth; this is false to the reason. To the reason it is always true that the earth moves round the sun; this is false to the supreme vision. Neither earth moves nor sun; there is only a change in the relation of sun-consciousness and earth-consciousness.

Some more excerpts from the book:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

-Knowledge is a child with its achievements; for when it has found out something, it runs about the streets whooping and shouting; Wisdom conceals hers for a long time in a thoughtful and mighty silence.

-To see the composition of the sun or the lines of Mars is doubtless a great achievement; but when thou hast the instrument that can show thee a man's soul as thou seest a picture, then thou wilt smile at the wonders of physical Science as the playthings of babies.

-The beginning and end of things is a conventional term of our experience; in their true existence these terms have no reality, there is no end and no beginning.

-An opinion is neither true nor false, but only serviceable for life or unserviceable; for it is a creation of Time and with time it loses its effect and value. Rise thou above opinion and seek wisdom everlasting.

-Use opinion for life, but let her not bind thy soul in her fetters.

-Every law, however embracing or tyrannous, meets somewhere a contrary law by which its operation can be checked, modified, annulled or eluded.


-The most binding Law of Nature is only a fixed process which the Lord of Nature has framed and uses constantly; the Spirit made it and the Spirit can exceed it, but we must first open the doors of our prison-house and learn to live less in Nature than in the Spirit.

-When I knew nothing, then I abhorred the criminal, sinful and impure, being myself full of crime, sin and impurity; but when I was cleansed and my eyes unsealed, then I bowed down in my spirit before the thief and the murderer and adored the feet of the harlot; for I saw that these souls had accepted the terrible burden of evil and drained for all of us the greater portion of the churned poison of the world-ocean.

 -When thou art able to see how necessary is suffering to final delight, failure to utter effectiveness and retardation to the last rapidity, then thou mayst begin to understand something, however faintly and dimly, of God's workings.

-There is only one soul and one existence; therefore we all see one objectivity only; but there are many knots of mind and ego in the one soul-existence, therefore we all see the one Object in different lights and shadows.

-The perfect cosmic vision and cosmic sentiment is the cure of all error and suffering; but most men succeed only in enlarging the range of their ego.

-Thou hast to learn to bear all the gods within thee and never stagger with their inrush or break under their burden.

-Not result is the purpose of action, but God's eternal delight in becoming, seeing and doing.

https://www.hinduwebsite.com/divinelife/auro/auro_aphorisms.asp

 

 

 

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Coil
5 hours ago, PsiSeeker said:

This implies that truth has local genesis and is global.  Lies and the idea that truth can be lacking in sufficiency is a priori dependent it.  As such they have their genesis in the higher, not the lower.  The cause of ignorance would stem as calculated neglect of the higher too.  This implies that motive exists, which I'll leave to you to illumine.

This implies that the reader is knowledgeable of the mystic's motive being to their end, and, as such, subject to them, in spite of the mystic gaining greater height.  Evidence of absolute truth is drawn from the belief of what the book represents, from absolute truth, since it is impossible to construe its value from its contents, with the exception of what was written on their level.  Religion and spirituality being prevalent throughout the world then has its cause by the belief of the reader and subjugation of the mystic.  What is this insight you have of the mystic?

 


You wrote in such a florid language that it's hard to understand your question.

In the spoiler excerpts from the aphorisms of Aurobindo who explored all the worlds and minds from the lower to the higher  beyond the universe where he traveled to the source, God. He writes that the divine truth does not open right after the universe appears to the beings it is hidden and this concealment is ignorance and accordingly evil and being who do not aspire to light and truth continue to remain in ignorance and this can be both cosmic forces and titans and humans. And the divine mind sees the whole truth and does not divide into different knowledge and branches it embraces the subject immediately from all sides without missing any detail because it carries a big light that illuminates the subject, the law, to the smallest alleys and the human mind thinks consecutively, adding one knowledge to the other and this knowledge is not a direct vision but an indirect one.

The divine mind is the mind of Knowledge, it does not need to be taught beforehand as a person giving knowledge about different sciences so this mind can not be ignorant of something that he always expresses and sees only the right knowledge. Also, he has the ability to see the result of his actions so he can not be mistaken as he would immediately see the result of his actions and feel himself personally. A person first does something on the basis of his mental presentations and after a while receives a reward for his actions, because, for example, doing something bad person does not immediately see the consequences of his actions. Therefore, one needs to open this divine mind because the earthly mind bears suffering, pain and death because of its limitations.

God knows that a person is limited and does not demand from him over correct behavior and thinking in the spirit of higher intelligence but he gives the right commandments that a person can follow and protect himself from danger.And on this stable basis a person can open up to a higher intelligence and then he will act correctly and unmistakably.

On the spiritual level, knowledge is not fragmented, so there are no teachings of multiple religions. Religions are borne by different gods who have the opportunity to create on levels below the spiritual and each god tries to express what that part of the truth of God so many religions and currents are created. Therefore, spiritual people say that one must pass beyond the golden hedge from the rays separating the finite from the infinite, form from the formless, then a person can organically see the truth whole and the wall that separates the personal and the cosmic, the divine and the human will fall off and then the person will not consider that the whole cosmos can not be known and covered consciousness, or that a man is less cosmic and cosmos will always dominate man. The same concerns the energy of the cosmos and all matter.

(I hope I got into your question a little)

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StarMountainKid

I'm not sure I understand the OP here. I'll just muse on...

Our life is what is.  Not what may be or what should be. All sorts of fandango's can be expounded, but I think the foundation of reason is the ordinary, practical way we live minute by minute.

A map of personal reason could be drawn by our actions. The results would be reasonable and easily understood. I'm not in favor of esoteric or supernatural phenomena, religious, philosophical, psychically or in any other way. 

Our life isn't up there is some ethereal astral plane, Reason is what is happening now on a practical level. I think it's enough to examine our behavior, which includes our beliefs, and consider the reasonableness of our actions.

This probably has nothing to do with the OP's question.

 

 

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