[Merged] Kavanaugh Hearing

[skliss]

6 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I mean if you had to write a character to be guy "the date raper" on Law and Order Kavanaugh would be the exact description of who you wanted. 

I'm curious as to in what way? By his physical looks? Because apparently he's received glowing reccomendations from every woman who has ever worked for him, he's championed women in his field since way before it was the "popular" cause du jour. There aren't the usual women flocking from hither and yon claiming the same as his accuser. This all comes from one person with no verification whatsoever. 

[Big Jim]

8 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Not really. Just like Trump and by extension republican congressmen can get a ratings bump by nominating a good conservative judge they can take a hit if they end up putting someone who the public doesnt like in and it is an election year.

While the judges may not get elected those voting for the judges do and you can bet they're paying attention to what their constituents think

Good point.

[Farmer77]

18 minutes ago, skliss said:

I'm curious as to in what way? By his physical looks? Because apparently he's received glowing reccomendations from every woman who has ever worked for him, he's championed women in his field since way before it was the "popular" cause du jour. There aren't the usual women flocking from hither and yon claiming the same as his accuser. This all comes from one person with no verification whatsoever. 

Yeah IMO its the total package. He looks creepy, he  definitely has the ability to both charm and be pompous, and his frat boy private school rich kid upbringing. All combined its kind of the classic 80's after school special date rape guy.

The yearbook quote from his character witness about striking women doesnt help, nor does his speech where he talked about "what happens at Georgetown Prep stays at Georgetown Prep , and thats been a good thing for all of us".

Totally a judgement call and I can understand why folks wouldnt see it that way. Truth be told im not even entirely sure a mistake while in school should be an automatic disqualifier but it should be looked into before that decision can be fully made.

 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Farmer77

[RoofGardener]

The democrats are sowing the wind, and will reap the whirlwind. If they ever get back into power, then the Republicans will "muddy" EVERY appointment they try and make with bogus sex scandal stories. 

The hatred of Trump that the Democrats are exhibiting, and the wild actions it is driving them to, is corrosive to future American governance. For this alone, they should all be dragged out into a handy nearby park, and WHIPPED like the DOGS they are ! 

[skliss]

1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

Yeah IMO its the total package. He looks creepy, he  definitely has the ability to both charm and be pompous, and his frat boy private school rich kid upbringing. All combined its kind of the classic 80's after school special date rape guy.

The yearbook quote from his character witness about striking women doesnt help, nor does his speech where he talked about "what happens at Georgetown Prep stays at Georgetown Prep , and thats been a good thing for all of us".

Totally a judgement call and I can understand why folks wouldnt see it that way. Truth be told im not even entirely sure a mistake while in school should be an automatic disqualifier but it should be looked into before that decision can be fully made.

 

I think he looks like a kind, decent guy, but I think that's as bad as judging a woman by her looks. As for the "stays in" comment, my friends and I have said that and we are pretty innocuous....lol

[Big Jim]

3 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Truth be told im not even entirely sure a mistake while in school should be an automatic disqualifier but it should be looked into before that decision can be fully made.

I've made the point before that even if this alleged incident had made it all the way to sentencing right after it occurred it would have been purged or sealed when he reached adulthood.  I see no reason why it shouldn't be given the same consideration now and just ignored.  No one is held to account for youthful indiscretions or even outright crimes for their entire life.

[Dark_Grey]

1 minute ago, Big Jim said:

No one is held to account for youthful indiscretions or even outright crimes for their entire life.

Welcome to 2018 where character assassinations are conducted based on bad words you said at age 7. It's a cheap ploy to turn the public against someone. I think most Americans are able to make up their own minds, thankfully.

[+Hammerclaw]

Well, Professor Drama Queen has 'till tomorrow to pony up to the bar to put up or shut up. Otherwise, it's full steam ahead for Kavanaugh's confirmation. 

[ian hacktorp]

More revealing information coming to light about Kavanaugh accuser's high school years:

Quote

1982 was a particularly wild year and Scribe 82 published multiple pictures of minors drinking heavily, beer cans stacked up, liquor repeatedly glorified, "boys, beer and “the ‘Zoo’ atmosphere”. The caption on the right side of the image mocks the faculty and parents, “Come on, you’re really too young to drink.”

Quote

Scribe 82, pg. 260, shows racy images, including three minors dressed provocatively as Playboy bunnies. The caption states:

 

“Beach week culminated the year for those of us lucky enough to go. With school and our minds in temporary recess, we were able to release all those troubling inhibitions of the past year. While dancing in the middle of coastal Highway, Ann [redacted last name] and friends picked up some men who passed out in their apartment…”

Quote

Now we turn to the final sentiments from Scribe 84, Chrissy Blasey’s senior year at Holton-Arms. Page 261 gives the parting sentiment of her six-year Holton experience. There are two relevant quotes. The first characterizes the senior girls as sexual predators upon younger boys:

 

“Other seniors preferred to expand their horizons and date younger men, usually sophomores, who could bring the vitality and freshness of innocence to a relationship.”

 

The Holton girls clearly portray themselves as the sexual predators here.

https://cultofthe1st.blogspot.com/2018/09/why-christine-blasey-fords-high-school_19.html?showComment=1537409523569&m=1#c2260053581059665674

 

[skliss]

Hmmmm....Maybe he was drunk, she tried something and he rejected her. Just as plausible.....

[Dark_Grey]

22 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

More revealing information coming to light about Kavanaugh accuser's high school years:

https://cultofthe1st.blogspot.com/2018/09/why-christine-blasey-fords-high-school_19.html?showComment=1537409523569&m=1#c2260053581059665674

 

So a lot of "he said, she said" from 30 years ago? Yeah, I can see why this is a Federal issue. Human memory is well known to be on par with a polygraph, a picture, an audio recording...

[skliss]

Maybe it's my age,  but 20 years ago an accusations of dumb, kid, antics would have been given a "Pffffffttttt...." and never allowed to reach a place where it could ruin someone's life and reputation. And that's with cooberation that it actually happened. Is it generational or is dirty fighting all one side has left? "If nothing else we can claim assault and fake enough outrage to get our way." I'm sorry, I would never want to win that way. No wonder #walkaway is picking up speed. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

I heard on the radio she was asked to testify, but refused. Why wouldn’t she testify? She claims because she’s getting death threats (which given that people get death threats these days for simply being in Star Wars and being female I can all to easily accept that she is) but that shouldn’t mean you should be silent.

[Big Jim]

28 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I heard on the radio she was asked to testify, but refused. Why wouldn’t she testify? She claims because she’s getting death threats (which given that people get death threats these days for simply being in Star Wars and being female I can all to easily accept that she is) but that shouldn’t mean you should be silent.

I wouldn't be surprised if her claims of receiving death threats are as well documented and credible as her claims of being molested all those years ago.  It sounds like an attempt to dodge being caught in one lie by telling another.  All in all, this whole thing sounds like a poorly thought out plan to derail Kavenaugh's confirmation.  Like she figured one good jab in the form of a sexual assault claim would do the job and be a service to her party but she didn't expect to actually have to do more than that, such as prove it or testify.  

[ExpandMyMind]

Jesus ****ing Christ. I sincerely hope some of the Gamergate-like posters in this thread have no women in their lives, for the sake of women. 

Reading some of these posts is making my skin crawl. 

[aztek]

there you go with you liberal hate again, keep it to yourself, we do not need it, sick of it actually

Edited September 20, 2018 by aztek

[Princess Bride]

1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I heard on the radio she was asked to testify, but refused. Why wouldn’t she testify? She claims because she’s getting death threats (which given that people get death threats these days for simply being in Star Wars and being female I can all to easily accept that she is) but that shouldn’t mean you should be silent.

 

Sadly, I'm not sure it will matter if she testifies or not and he'll be seated anyway just like creepy Clarence Thomas was. 

[Princess Bride]

52 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

I wouldn't be surprised if her claims of receiving death threats are as well documented and credible as her claims of being molested all those years ago.  It sounds like an attempt to dodge being caught in one lie by telling another.  All in all, this whole thing sounds like a poorly thought out plan to derail Kavenaugh's confirmation.  Like she figured one good jab in the form of a sexual assault claim would do the job and be a service to her party but she didn't expect to actually have to do more than that, such as prove it or testify.  

Would you believe her more if she testifies or are you just getting your jabs into her character? Would it really make a difference to you? Would you ease up on her if the FBI investigated like they did Anita Hill's claims and found evidence correlating her tale? Do you really care at all or are you just blowing smoke out your pipe? 

[+OverSword]

Is this thread still active?  He said, she said, he got confirmed.  Elvis has left the building.

[Wickian]

40 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Is this thread still active?  He said, she said, he got confirmed.  Elvis has left the building.

Has he been confirmed?  As far as I know he hasn't yet.

[Farmer77]

7 hours ago, Big Jim said:

I've made the point before that even if this alleged incident had made it all the way to sentencing right after it occurred it would have been purged or sealed when he reached adulthood.  I see no reason why it shouldn't be given the same consideration now and just ignored.  No one is held to account for youthful indiscretions or even outright crimes for their entire life.

I do think there is some value in taking a fresh look at his career in light of the allegations. Cast in a different light its possible we will view his decision making differently. Full disclosure I wont personally put in the effort but I do think our elected representatives on both sides of the aisle should.

Its a lifetime appointment IMO theres nothing wrong with taking time to make sure they get it right.

Now whether it should be a lifetime appointment is a whole other discussion. (IMO No)

[Big Jim]

38 minutes ago, Princess Bride said:

Would you believe her more if she testifies or are you just getting your jabs into her character? Would it really make a difference to you? Would you ease up on her if the FBI investigated like they did Anita Hill's claims and found evidence correlating her tale? Do you really care at all or are you just blowing smoke out your pipe? 

 My skepticism about her credibility is based on all the circumstances surrounding this event.   So far anything she claims is just a shot in the dark, with no weight whatsoever.  It's no different than anyone else who accuses someone of a crime.  It doesn't count unless you testify in court.  Under our system of justice everyone has a right to face their accuser.  If she's not going to follow proper procedure then she has no right to expect justice.  Murderers have gone free when witnesses have refused to testify.  It doesn't matter if I believe her or not, that's just the way it works. 

As far as being investigated by the FBI, it is my understanding that Kavenaugh has been vetted by them 6 times at other stages in his career.  Since the current allegations would not be a federal crime even with proof, it is under the jurisdiction of the police where it is claimed to have occurred.  The FBI does not investigate decades old accusations of teenage party behavior.

[Wickian]

15 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

 My skepticism about her credibility is based on all the circumstances surrounding this event.   So far anything she claims is just a shot in the dark, with no weight whatsoever.  It's no different than anyone else who accuses someone of a crime.  It doesn't count unless you testify in court.  Under our system of justice everyone has a right to face their accuser.  If she's not going to follow proper procedure then she has no right to expect justice.  Murderers have gone free when witnesses have refused to testify.  It doesn't matter if I believe her or not, that's just the way it works. 

As far as being investigated by the FBI, it is my understanding that Kavenaugh has been vetted by them 6 times at other stages in his career.  Since the current allegations would not be a federal crime even with proof, it is under the jurisdiction of the police where it is claimed to have occurred.  The FBI does not investigate decades old accusations of teenage party behavior.

The Democrats are aware of this.  They decided to make a truly scummy political move and bring out a month-old letter at the 11th hour and then make grandstanding demands in the hopes of stalling long enough to hopefullypossiblymaybe win enough seats in the election to block Trump for another 2 years.  If the Republicans go ahead with the vote you can bet they'll be screaming bloody murder over it and use it to try and portray them all as cisgendered white male rapists keeping the "good old boys" in power to harm their election prospects.

I've read elsewhere that there was supposedly another letter this woman sent a year ago accusing Gorsuch of the exact same thing.  I have no idea how true or not this is though.

Quote

BREAKING: According to sources Diane Feinstein's reluctance to mention the Kavanaugh accuser's letter during confirmation session is because the accuser sent a similiar letter directed at Judge Gorsuch last year. The whereabouts of the earlier letter remain a mystery.developing

See how fun it is to make absolutely baseless accusations about something that happened in the past to hurt someone's character?

Edited September 20, 2018 by Wickian

[+Hammerclaw]

This was carefully planned ploy, orchestrated by the DNC, to delay and derail. No actual and timely resolution is wanted or expected. This is an accusation impossible to prove or disprove, ultimately and as the FBI states, a political not a law enforcement matter. Of course she won't testify, just continue to make demands and set conditions and draw it out as long as possible. The Republicans will either have to grow a pair and confirm, or send up the white flag.

[Princess Bride]

2 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

 My skepticism about her credibility is based on all the circumstances surrounding this event.   So far anything she claims is just a shot in the dark, with no weight whatsoever.  It's no different than anyone else who accuses someone of a crime.  It doesn't count unless you testify in court.  Under our system of justice everyone has a right to face their accuser.  If she's not going to follow proper procedure then she has no right to expect justice.  Murderers have gone free when witnesses have refused to testify.  It doesn't matter if I believe her or not, that's just the way it works. 

As far as being investigated by the FBI, it is my understanding that Kavenaugh has been vetted by them 6 times at other stages in his career.  Since the current allegations would not be a federal crime even with proof, it is under the jurisdiction of the police where it is claimed to have occurred.  The FBI does not investigate decades old accusations of teenage party behavior.

So basically your opinion still boils down to jabs at her character. Remember this isn't a criminal proceeding or investigation so a lot of what you said was moot. She isn't asking for or expecting justice at this point. She seems to have never conceived of justice for her in this matter as ever being possible or she likley would have gone to the police at the time the sexual assault allegedly happened. At this point, she is just trying to figure out if it is safe for her and her family to testify before the confirmation committee or so she claims. However, due process still applies, only for Senate confirmation hearings, hence the suggestion the FBI investigate like they have a history of in these sorts of cases. Remember this isn't the same as vetting or a criminal investigation. This is just to find out if there is any evidence or witnesses to correlate her claims, such as whether there was a party that evening, who was there, etc.