[Merged] Kavanaugh Hearing

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

If he’s guilty, and she can prove it, push for charges to be laid and hope to convince a jury.

if he’s guilty and she can’t prove it, push for charges to be laid and hope to convince a jury.

if he’s not guilt studiously avoid pushing for charges to be laid so you can’t be found guilty yourself of perjury.

 

which situation is palying out right now?

[Wickian]

3 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

No, her testimony needs to be credible, and judging by the conversation thus far, it’s not.

Vague timelines(as in really, really not-knowing-the-year vague), location unknown, a changing story and a dramatic revelation a stroke before midnight does not make a strong case.

To be fair that last part could have been the Democrats taking advantage of her like scum.  I have no opinion on either Ford or Kavanaugh, but in the absence of any kind of cohesive story, party witnesses or past police reports of such behavior at any point in his life, I'm siding with Kavanaugh.

[MissMelsWell]

Just now, OverSword said:

Did you have to use my name?

MMW I’m not trying to minimize anything that went on. I’m saying there’s no proof and if that’s the most dirt that can be found on this guy it’s not enough to stop the appointment. I don’t know anything about his personal politics but am against ruining someone’s reputation over hearsay. And really examine how this all came out. They had her letter for months and wait until he’s all but swore in before bringing this out and after a ton of other BS stunts (Spartacus, seriously?) Sorry but this is bull ****. Man Could you imagine if I ran for office? I’m an alright person I hope you might agree, but think of the crap they could unleash. Plus MMW I’m not the one mowing my grass in suspenders and a two can beer drinking construction hay 

Ya. I did have to. I'm actually really super disappointed. 

[+OverSword]

13 minutes ago, MissMelsWell said:

I'm pretty sure you never attempted to rape anyone. But, I suppose I could be wrong. 

Check this out MMW. Between mine and Miho’s 1st big breakup and our epic failure of getting back together for a decade she was with Mike from pleasure elite. So there were certain girls that would have nothing to do with her when she was with me to making an effort because Mike was as such a sweet guy. Well one particular girl that was friends with him I wanted to take out but eventually learned she was afraid of me because I beat Miho when we were together.  WHAT?????) Complete fiction and I don’t know why we got back together except that we were gluttons for punishment. But I never physically abused her. Did it matter? Not to the people that believed the lie. No proof of course but I was guilty in some people’s eyes and she we now know was insane and full of it. I’m siding with the evidence.

[+OverSword]

You know, being libertarian logic and proof mean more to me than my emotions (or maybe lack there of) when it comes to legalities and politics. I’m my mind I’m a liberal (I believe in gay marriages, a woman’s right to choose, decriminalizing all drugs, safe injection sights, etc....etc) what I don’t believe in is witch hunts or that there is any real difference between democrats and republicans and these stupid games they play. If any of the other people that sit on the SCOTUS are qualified I fail to see how this guy isn’t.

if there is any evidence of this woman’s claim or indication that he is some kind of serial abuser then lets hear it and mount his head on the tower gate. Otherwise this is just more party infighting that I don’t give a damn about and consider a waste of time and probably a distraction from something important. And look, it’s working.

[MissMelsWell]

I know you didn't. I would NEVER have thought you would have. 

BUT, that was your stupid ex girlfriend making **** up in your circle of friends for her own personal gain.

That was NOT her marching onto a national stage and for NO gain, accusing you beating her up. It's a false equivalency. 

[MissMelsWell]

Did you read Judge Kavanaughs yearbook quote? There is some NASTY **** in there. And there's one part in particular that might refer to WHY Mark Judge was in that room. Which is fine if it's consensual but it wasn't. 

There needs to be an investigation and a hearing. The witnesses need to be called and questioned. 

Kavanaugh's approval polling is so far under water at this point it's ridiculous. The majority of the people in the USA are against him taking the bench. We don't want a judge who most Americans don't want on the bench.. He needs to go. They need to find someone else.  

We also need to STOP the insanity of a 50 vote pass for SCOTUS. It needs to be 60. 50 is how we wind up with zealots who want to strip people of their rights. You need bi-partisan support for the Supreme Court. to be even remotely balanced Now we have a bunch of holy rollers up there and likely two sex predators who want to gut everyone but white men's rights. 

Edited September 22, 2018 by MissMelsWell

[+Hammerclaw]

BBy all means, let's call ALL the witnesses

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

47 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

If he’s guilty, and she can prove it, push for charges to be laid and hope to convince a jury.

if he’s guilty and she can’t prove it, push for charges to be laid and hope to convince a jury.

if he’s not guilt studiously avoid pushing for charges to be laid so you can’t be found guilty yourself of perjury.

 

which situation is palying out right now?

Conversely, if it was me being accused I’d be taking her to court for defamation and slander - IF I knew I was innocent and could prove it.

[+OverSword]

5 minutes ago, MissMelsWell said:

Did you read Judge Kavanaughs yearbook quote? There is some NASTY **** in there. And there's one part in particular that might refer to WHY Mark Judge was in that room. Which is fine if it's consensual but it wasn't. 

There needs to be an investigation and a hearing. The witnesses need to be called and questioned. 

Kavanaugh approval polling is so far under water at this point, the majority of the people in teh USA are against him taking the bench. We don't want a judge who most Americans don't want on the bench.. He needs to go. Find someone else.  

Seriously? Do you think that I would judge a fifty something year old on a yearbook quote? Man I did an interview for a local cable metal show in my late twenties where I advised kill your parents then yourself. Obviously my parents and I are all still here and I was telling a shock value joke in extremely poor taste which if it hadn’t been broadcast and probably on a few hundred vcr recordings I would deny deny deny. LOL!

or let me show you the Seattle Times interview I did with members of the War Babies and Alice In Chains about lack of venues for all age shows in 1992 and then tell you what the unedited version was. You won’t be surprised but you would still slap your forehead and wonder how I could be so stupid all for shock value.

[MissMelsWell]

3 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Seriously? Do you think that I would judge a fifty something year old on a yearbook quote? Man I did an interview for a local cable metal show in my late twenties where I advised kill your parents then yourself. Obviously my parents and I are all still here and I was telling a shock value joke in extremely poor taste which if it hadn’t been broadcast and probably on a few hundred vcr recordings I would deny deny deny. LOL!

or let me show you the Seattle Times interview I did with members of the War Babies and Alice In Chains about lack of venues for all age shows in 1992 and then tell you what the unedited version was. You won’t be surprised but you would still slap your forehead and wonder how I could be so stupid all for shock value.

When it possibly relates... maybe. But we won't know unless there is an investigation which the American people are being denied. That's my point. 

[MissMelsWell]

14 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Conversely, if it was me being accused I’d be taking her to court for defamation and slander - IF I knew I was innocent and could prove it.

So, he should prove he's innocent. You know, through an investigation the victim has asked for over and over again. She's not worried about what an investigation might show, why is he? 

[+OverSword]

2 minutes ago, MissMelsWell said:

So, he should prove he's innocent. You know, through an investigation the victim has asked for over and over again. She's not worried about what an investigation might show, why is he? 

Investigate he said she said? Waste of time, which is the entire goal of this blatant political stunt, being pulled in the 11th hour in the hope that there will be a democratic majority in the senate next year at which point they will fruitlessly hope to avoid any trump appointments until 2020. 

May as well just move on it’s not going to get more liberal than this guy. What if Mueller finds grounds for impeachment and then the right wing neocon pence is in charge of nominating justices?

[+OverSword]

MMW. I love you

*innocent*

i know I’m an ass. Admitting it is how I live with myself 

[MissMelsWell]

10 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Investigate he said she said? Waste of time, which is the entire goal of this blatant political stunt, being pulled in the 11th hour in the hope that there will be a democratic majority in the senate next year at which point they will fruitlessly hope to avoid any trump appointments until 2020. 

May as well just move on it’s not going to get more liberal than this guy. What if Mueller finds grounds for impeachment and then the right wing neocon pence is in charge of nominating justices?

You do NOT know that until you investigate it. They called the guy who groped Cheryl and I was a case of "He said she said" until some investigation happened and lo and behold two MORE women and one dude came out of the woodwork! And one more guy (who you know) who refused to talk about it at all and asked that we never tell anyone. You don't know until you investigate it. 

Ford has NOTHING to gain from all this and only has everything to lose. Why would she do that? She's clearly not a stupid woman. 

Edited September 22, 2018 by MissMelsWell

[MissMelsWell]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

MMW. I love you

*innocent*

i know I’m an ass. Admitting it is how I live with myself 

You are being an ***hat... and happy birthday anyway.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

24 minutes ago, MissMelsWell said:

So, he should prove he's innocent. You know, through an investigation the victim has asked for over and over again. She's not worried about what an investigation might show, why is he? 

Except, she’s not pushing for an investigation, is she? If she was she’d be pushing for charges to be laid.

[Farmer77]

6 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Except, she’s not pushing for an investigation, is she? If she was she’d be pushing for charges to be laid.

huh?

Kavanaugh accuser wants FBI investigation before testifying

 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

huh?

Kavanaugh accuser wants FBI investigation before testifying

 

Which isn’t charges being laid now is it?

its not her stating on the record what happened.

its just “can I get the FBI to look for dirt on him?”.

[MissMelsWell]

12 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Except, she’s not pushing for an investigation, is she? If she was she’d be pushing for charges to be laid.

She's repeatedly asked for an investigation either independent or FBI, she didn't care which as long as it was trained investigators (aka NOT Grassley's staffer who drunk Tweets in the middle of the night). Anita Hill got an investigation there were no charges in that case. 

She IS pushing for an investigation. Grassley has denied it to her. and consequently denied it to Kavanaugh (who does NOT want an investigation) and to the American People who really have a right to know especially since Kavanaugh only has about a 24% approval rating.  

The ONLY way there would be "charges" filed for the attempted rape is if she went to Maryland and made a complaint at the police station. Then, the police would MAYBE investigate it and then turn it over to the DA, who mostly likely would not file charges. I know this from experience. Women are completely dismissed in these cases. When I tried to file against my groper, the police wouldn't even take my report and investigate! They told me to go home and stay away from him. SO I'M the one who has to stay away from him when HE assaulted ME? Oh HELL NO. 
 

Edited September 22, 2018 by MissMelsWell

[MissMelsWell]

Wearer of Hats, you seem to be confused by how this has worked in the past. The Anita Hill case is probably the closest, but it's not the only time this has been done during SCOTUS confirmation hearings. 

If something like this comes up, the FBI or independent council conduct an investigation. In this case, they would independently and privately interview Kavanaugh,, Dr. Ford, Mark Judge, Ford's doctor who has been given permission to talk to investigators, and any other witnesses they can find from that time period. 

THEN, they write up their findings, they give the finding to the Senate committee and the Senators are allowed to ask Kavanaugh and Ford about the findings and whatever else. 

That's how it's always worked in teh past, but Grassley is denying it this time because he's afraid of what the investigators will find. 

Anita Hill's investigation took three days. Grassly can give up a few days for an investigation. 

Edited September 22, 2018 by MissMelsWell

[bee]

24 minutes ago, MissMelsWell said:

Ford has NOTHING to gain from all this and only has everything to lose. Why would she do that? She's clearly not a stupid woman. 

 

I think she does have a lot to gain - because she is 'taking one for the team' and is a heroine to the Democrats
and their Backers for possibly firing the killshot at Kavanaugh, who her 'side' are desperate to stop ...

It's just all a little too convenient to bring up an alleged assault now from decades ago that cannot be proved or disproved
either way.. but regardless of the truth of it, the perception is now set in stone and she has already more or less
ruined his career whether he becomes SCOTUS or not...

I think she probably cooked it all up with Feinstein and a whole team of people who see themselves as 'resisters'
and this was a last ditch operation to prevent his appointment and try to influence the mid term elections...

 

[MissMelsWell]

You're wrong Bee. She has EVERYTHING to lose. 

This is an educated woman and scientist, who is a HIGHLY respected and VERY well known research scientist who has TONS of published research. She's extremely dedicated to her work and her family. She has EVERYTHING to lose. 

Her family is in danger now, she is in danger, Lord knows she may be at risk with her employers now because she tried to anonymously tried to do her civic duty.

She went to ONE women's march and that's about the extent of her so-called "resister activist" background. 

I don't think the timing is strange at all. She voiced the concern months ago, it sat with Eschoo who then interviewed her, then Eschoo took it to Feinstein. They both tried to keep Ford anonymous. 

You're just wrong.. Who wakes up and says "Hey, I'm going to make up a claim and ruin my life, my family and job?!" NO ONE. 

Edited September 22, 2018 by MissMelsWell

[bee]

 

Women who lie or exaggerate about sexual assault -  ( or as in this case give the impression they
could very well be lying or exaggerating) for personal or political gain - do a disservice to genuine
victims of sexual assault and abuse... 

 

 

[MissMelsWell]

2 minutes ago, bee said:

 

Women who lie or exaggerate about sexual assault -  ( or as in this case give the impression they
could very well be lying or exaggerating) for personal or political gain - do a disservice to genuine
victims of sexual assault and abuse... 

 

 

Not believing someone who reluctantly put their lives on the line to come forward does a FAR bigger disservice. 

I'm glad you don't vote in the USA.