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Uncle Sam

[Merged] Kavanaugh Hearing

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Sir Wearer of Hats
1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

Thats not really how things work though. Do you really want to live in a world where you're forced to defend your personal life when you're the victim? 

Let there be an investigation, just do it respectfully.

 

No, the victim needs to be supported, heard and their words acted upon. They need to be protected. But the person they are accusing needsvto be protected as well until they’re found guilty. The ideal we are aspiring to is Innocent Until Proven Guilty - everyone is innocent, victim AND accused. 

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bee
2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Thats not really how things work though. Do you really want to live in a world where you're forced to defend your personal life when you're the victim? 

Let there be an investigation, just do it respectfully.

 

 

either she is the victim OR he (Kavanaugh) is the victim of false accusations -

so your remarks apply to both of them...

 

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Farmer77
3 minutes ago, and then said:

The credibility of our legal processes is at stake and once respect for the law is gone in a "nation of laws, not men" we're pretty much done...

Agreed, we are in trouble.

 

 

 

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Farmer77
2 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

No, the victim needs to be supported, heard and their words acted upon. They need to be protected. But the person they are accusing needsvto be protected as well until they’re found guilty. The ideal we are aspiring to is Innocent Until Proven Guilty - everyone is innocent, victim AND accused. 

Wholly agreed.

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Farmer77
5 minutes ago, bee said:

 

either she is the victim OR he (Kavanaugh) is the victim of false accusations -

so your remarks apply to both of them...

 

Again, not really how it works in America. I have no idea why you would want to live in a world that did work like that.

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bee
10 minutes ago, and then said:

Once appointed he could STILL be impeached.  In his position, I would hire counsel and investigators and would do everything in my power to legally DESTROY HER.  When I was finished with her, her own family would doubt her if she said the sun was going to rise tomorrow.  There HAS to be accountability at some point or these people will keep slandering and libeling to push political agendas. The credibility of our legal processes is at stake and once respect for the law is gone in a "nation of laws, not men" we're pretty much done...

 

The stakes are high indeed for both Kavanaugh and Ford.... they may both be destroyed before all this is over...
Re bolded.... there is no way of avoiding the fact that this all smells of Political Agenda...


 

 

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bee
2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Again, not really how it works in America. I have no idea why you would want to live in a world that did work like that.

 

in a world where both accused and accuser are treated equally until a judgement is made...?

It is noted that you ''wholly agree" with Sir Wearer of Hats... but disagree with me...

when we said the same thing ^_^ 

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, bee said:

It is noted that you ''wholly agree" with Sir Wearer of Hats... but disagree with me...

when we said the same thing ^_^ 

Not quite he said the victim needed to be protected while you are advocating for her personal social media to be combed through.

If i misunderstood that then i do apologize.

 

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bee

 

There are a couple or more men who if they suddenly became involved in the higher levels of
politics or the law that I could 'do a Christine Blasey Ford' on  if I wanted to..... when I look back on the
sometimes wild and crazy years of my teenage years - like teenage years could be before
everyone just stared into I phones and computers... :) .... (perhaps they are still just as wild and
crazy ? because teenagers are hard wired to push at boundries ?)
also an incident in my twenties...

but if I did that I would be being opportunist.... especially if I disagreed with their politics...
 

 

 

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bee
11 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Not quite he said the victim needed to be protected while you are advocating for her personal social media to be combed through.

If i misunderstood that then i do apologize.

 

you are defending yourself by splitting hairs.... as SW of Hats said...

"They need to be protected. But the person they are accusing needs to be protected as well until they’re found guilty."

so if they comb through Kavanaughs personal life and past.... what's good for the goose is good for the gander...

Apology accepted.... :innocent:

 

 

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, bee said:

you are defending yourself by splitting hairs.... as SW of Hats said...

"They need to be protected. But the person they are accusing needs to be protected as well until they’re found guilty."

so if they comb through Kavanaughs personal life and past.... what's good for the goose is good for the gander...

Apology accepted.... :innocent:

I think perhaps we're viewing the investigation into the accusation differently. By no means do I think this warrants a full on rip up the floorboards type investigation into Kavanaugh and I dont believe Ive heard anyone else pushing for that either. As someone else mentioned the investigation into Anita Hill's claim took 3 days, I dont think anyone but the most extreme is expecting a whole lot more than that.

For me im much more concerned that our representatives take the new information and reexamine Kavanaugh's case history in that light. If they could honestly do that and then still honestly say Kavanaugh is good then so be it.  Clearly thats a delusional thought on my part but it would be the most mature and rational response to the accusation IMO.

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RoofGardener
9 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I think perhaps we're viewing the investigation into the accusation differently. By no means do I think this warrants a full on rip up the floorboards type investigation into Kavanaugh and I dont believe Ive heard anyone else pushing for that either. As someone else mentioned the investigation into Anita Hill's claim took 3 days, I dont think anyone but the most extreme is expecting a whole lot more than that.

For me im much more concerned that our representatives take the new information and reexamine Kavanaugh's case history in that light. If they could honestly do that and then still honestly say Kavanaugh is good then so be it.  Clearly thats a delusional thought on my part but it would be the most mature and rational response to the accusation IMO.

Would it make any difference Farmer77 ? The Democrats where always going to vote against Kavanaugh regardless. The Republicans might have listened to the testimony, and thought about it, but now they will be thinking that the whole thing is a democrat 'dirty tricks' conspiracy, and will vote for Kavanugh regardless. 

So what has changed ? 

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, RoofGardener said:

Would it make any difference Farmer77 ? The Democrats where always going to vote against Kavanaugh regardless. The Republicans might have listened to the testimony, and thought about it, but now they will be thinking that the whole thing is a democrat 'dirty tricks' conspiracy, and will vote for Kavanugh regardless. 

So what has changed ? 

Sadly in todays ****ed up world nothing will have changed. The republicans wont budge and neither will the dems. Hence the reason I said my thought was delusional.

I do still have a dream that one day ****ing adults will return to Washington though.

I think the key to solving this particular problem is term limits for the Supreme Court Justices. We know that most of them stop functioning properly loooong before they leave the bench anyways. By placing term limits on the appointments these hearings would have a chance at being more focused on the good of the nation than on the good of the party.

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Sir Wearer of Hats
40 minutes ago, bee said:

 

in a world where both accused and accuser are treated equally until a judgement is made...?

It is noted that you ''wholly agree" with Sir Wearer of Hats... but disagree with me...

when we said the same thing ^_^ 

FWIW I agree with you Bee.

both sides needs to be under a forensic microscope, because someone here IS guilty and an innocent person IS being victimised.

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RoofGardener
1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

Sadly in todays ****ed up world nothing will have changed. The republicans wont budge and neither will the dems. Hence the reason I said my thought was delusional.

I do still have a dream that one day ****ing adults will return to Washington though.

I think the key to solving this particular problem is term limits for the Supreme Court Justices. We know that most of them stop functioning properly loooong before they leave the bench anyways. By placing term limits on the appointments these hearings would have a chance at being more focused on the good of the nation than on the good of the party.

Hmm.. interesting idea. What sort of limits do you have in mind ? 

 

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmm.. interesting idea. What sort of limits do you have in mind ? 

 

Ya know I hadnt quite gotten that far. It just seems to me that if we can remove the crushing pressure of appointing/stopping the appointment of someone for LIFE that perhaps we can lower the extreme partisanship on such an important issue, even if just a little.

 

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RoofGardener
2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Ya know I hadnt quite gotten that far. It just seems to me that if we can remove the crushing pressure of appointing/stopping the appointment of someone for LIFE that perhaps we can lower the extreme partisanship on such an important issue, even if just a little.

Hmmm..... 

The only options I could imagine would be

  1. Each judge is fired after 10 years (or whatever) and new elections called. This should be done on a "one judge per year" basis, or somesuch ? 
  2. There is a maximum age limit after which the judges are retired. (though this may just cause a scramble to elect young judges). 

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Farmer77
3 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmmm..... 

The only options I could imagine would be

  1. Each judge is fired after 10 years (or whatever) and new elections called. This should be done on a "one judge per year" basis, or somesuch ? 
  2. There is a maximum age limit after which the judges are retired. (though this may just cause a scramble to elect young judges). 

Actually thats exactly what I had come up with as well in the couple minutes since you asked. I just cant quite figure out the rotation though. You certainly wouldnt want them all coming up simultaneously.

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Setton
6 hours ago, OverSword said:

Plus MMW I’m not the one mowing my grass in suspenders and a two can beer drinking construction hat

Please clarify - American or British suspenders? 

Because, as a brit, that is not an image I needed... :blink:

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RoofGardener
53 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Actually thats exactly what I had come up with as well in the couple minutes since you asked. I just cant quite figure out the rotation though. You certainly wouldnt want them all coming up simultaneously.

I had another.. fleeting.. idea... the Supreme Scramble. It involved a pit with several savage dogs, and a greasy pole in the center. 

Meh..... the animal rights people would grumble though. 

Edited by RoofGardener
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Astra.
10 hours ago, MissMelsWell said:

IT DOES NOT MATTER. It's not like you get a free pass to try and rape a woman at least once to see if you like it and decide whether you want to do it again.  It's a CRIME.  Jesus. 

You shout a lot in your posts don't you :rolleyes:....and I understand quite well that rape or attempted rape etc.. is a crime. So drop the decibels eh ?..

I think under these circumstance where somebody has been accused of sexually groping them 'over three decades ago' at a teenage party where alcohol was obviously consumed...well I think my question was valid...as it stands to good reason as to make enquiries into any accused person's past concerning any other similar reports / allegations that may or may not have been made against said perpetrator....as sexual assault of any kind is not always just a 'one-off' offence...as in some cases there's even a pattern. 

Even so, by the sounds of it...you've already got the guy tarred and feathered and headed for the gallows before a proper investigation into her claim is even done.  

 

Edited by Astra.
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Astra.
9 hours ago, OverSword said:

When I think of some of the things I was up to at that age...... this seems like such BS

Well admittedly, I was no angel around that age either...and I'm still not :D..

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Gromdor
6 hours ago, and then said:

Once appointed he could STILL be impeached.  In his position, I would hire counsel and investigators and would do everything in my power to legally DESTROY HER.  When I was finished with her, her own family would doubt her if she said the sun was going to rise tomorrow.  There HAS to be accountability at some point or these people will keep slandering and libeling to push political agendas.  The credibility of our legal processes is at stake and once respect for the law is gone in a "nation of laws, not men" we're pretty much done...

What if it was all true, but she just didn't have enough evidence to prove it?  You pretty much explained why rape victims don't come forth right away if at all.

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OverSword
5 hours ago, Setton said:

Please clarify - American or British suspenders? 

Because, as a brit, that is not an image I needed... :blink:

I’m not sure but I’ll bet her humiliated daughter could describe it in detail 

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