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Farmer77

Resistance From Inside Trump Admin

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Likely Guy
5 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

No, it’s breaking the law.

Yes, we already agreed on that.

We just disagree on how severe that should be treated.

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Gromdor

I find it fascinating how illegal immigrants went decades being people that committed a civil crime on the level of a parking ticket to the current day taking all our jobs but taking all our welfare at the same time, child hunger causing, America destroying, hated class of minorities they are now.  They are so scary that there is even talk about locking up the illegal children indefinitely:  https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/trump-traded-family-separation-for-illegal-indefinite-detention-and-fixed-nothing.html

 

 

 

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RavenHawk
Just now, Likely Guy said:

Yes, we already agreed on that.

We just disagree on how severe that should be treated.

Crime is crime, it doesn’t matter how serious you think it is.  How serious is up to the judge and jury in a courtroom.  For the individual here illegally, committing vehicular homicide while under the influence is nothing.  They have no remorse.  They usually come from a starker environment where the value of life is not as valuable as it is here.

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OverSword
31 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

Except the first part. 'Breaking' what?, 'entering' sure... and what, 'robbing' someone of a low paid job?

Many of them work using stolen social security numbers. When an illegal alien uses your SS number the IRS thinks you have more income and messes up your taxes. They often catch these people when the IRS notices that one SS number is being used at multiple jobs. That was the case with that woman that had taken refuge in the Catholic Church a couple of years ago.  That’s called identity theft and it’s not a victimless crime. The people employing illegals aren’t paying them cash under the table and they’re not all seasonal farm workers anymore. 

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Likely Guy
6 minutes ago, OverSword said:

It’s not impossible but the reality is the percentage of people that do that are extremely low. Most find another path. I’ve been down and out struggling to pay rent and buy food but I never begged or stole although those options existed. And the truth is anyone can go through the process of legally crossing and working here but I would wager the number of illegal crossers have never gone that route. And as far as laying a guilt trip about feeding their families, how stupid are the people that have 10 kids and no way to feed them. Other people’s poor choices should be their own problem not yours or mine. I don’t expect you to pay my bills and I won’t pay yours. It’s not that I’m not charitable or sympathetic but nations have laws and countries protect their borders and the USA shouldn’t be expected not to also do so or judged poorly for also doing so.

I've been in the same boat. But I've also never had multiple mouths to feed.

The fact of the matter is, is that the vast majority of illegal aliens commit fewer crimes to avoid deportation.

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RavenHawk
1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

I find it fascinating how illegal immigrants went decades being people that committed a civil crime on the level of a parking ticket to the current day taking all our jobs but taking all our welfare at the same time, child hunger causing, America destroying, hated class of minorities they are now.  They are so scary that there is even talk about locking up the illegal children indefinitely:  https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/trump-traded-family-separation-for-illegal-indefinite-detention-and-fixed-nothing.html

Firstly, it’s important to realize that crime begets crime.  All it takes is the first time.  Secondly, immigrants, even illegals did not receive public aid decades ago.  If they came here, they were forced to assimilate more rapidly.  Also, there was not the mass migration that there is now because of the free stuff.  Such mass migration imports poverty, crime, and disease.  That overwhelms a nation’s resources.

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Likely Guy
11 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Crime is crime, it doesn’t matter how serious you think it is.  How serious is up to the judge and jury in a courtroom.  For the individual here illegally, committing vehicular homicide while under the influence is nothing.  They have no remorse.  They usually come from a starker environment where the value of life is not as valuable as it is here.

If you feel so disposed, can you back up that assertion?

"They have no remorse", in other words other human life has no value?

Edit: You're basically arguing and associating that illegal immigrants are inhuman.

Edited by Likely Guy
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Gromdor
Just now, RavenHawk said:

Firstly, it’s important to realize that crime begets crime.  All it takes is the first time.  Secondly, immigrants, even illegals did not receive public aid decades ago.  If they came here, they were forced to assimilate more rapidly.  Also, there was not the mass migration that there is now because of the free stuff.  Such mass migration imports poverty, crime, and disease.  That overwhelms a nation’s resources.

Illegals get public aid?  Maybe where you live but not in my state: https://www.iowalegalaid.org/resource/food-stamps-and-immigrants

Mass migration?  Immigration is at a decades low: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-06-20/immigration-to-u-s-is-lower-than-you-think

Crime begets crime?  Illegals commit fewer violent crimes: https://www.businessinsider.com/undocumented-aliens-violent-crime-murder-statistics-data-2018-8

Almost everything you said is false propaganda.  I'm guessing it is for demonizing the illegals to make them into a "scape goat" group.  Someone has been brainwashing you and you have been falling for it. 

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OverSword

The notion that these people are taking jobs nobody else else will do is outdated. Especially in place like Seattle with a $15 minimum wage. One time I was waiting for a to go order at a Chinese restaurant down the street. There was a small march planned to protest something or other and a group of motorcycle police had pulled up on the corner preparing to block traffic as the march moved down the street. The cook (Mexican) of the restaurant panicked and sprinted out the door getting into a canopied pickup with several people sleeping in the back and sped down the road. Does someone want to tell me that we need to import cooks because no American will do that job?

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joc
10 hours ago, Gromdor said:

You're saying this in a thread about Trump's own staff sabotaging/betraying him?

I guess I missed something...since I don't ever watch the TV news...so...uh...please enlighten me as to who exactly on Trump's staff was sabotaging/betraying him?

'Cause, the last I heard....uh...the person was anonymous....

Which screams....F A K E    N E W S.....

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Gromdor
1 minute ago, joc said:

I guess I missed something...since I don't ever watch the TV news...so...uh...please enlighten me as to who exactly on Trump's staff was sabotaging/betraying him?

'Cause, the last I heard....uh...the person was anonymous....

Which screams....F A K E    N E W S.....

Trump seems to think otherwise.  http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/09/08/trump-eyes-four-or-five-people-who-may-be-behind-anonymous-nyt-article.html

But, you could be right.  Trump is a very unreliable source of information.

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OverSword
12 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

The fact of the matter is, is that the vast majority of illegal aliens commit fewer crimes to avoid deportation.

Fewer than me or most of the people I know? Doubtful. They commit more crimes than me the moment they cross the border. Also keep in mind that importing illegal labor is a huge industry creating luxurious wealth for organized crime syndicates in Mexico. People that endorse or dismiss this are being thoughtless.

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joc
1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

Trump seems to think otherwise.  http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/09/08/trump-eyes-four-or-five-people-who-may-be-behind-anonymous-nyt-article.html

But, you could be right.  Trump is a very unreliable source of information.

I don't trust the Elite Left Media...so....I'm going with....they made it up...

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Gromdor
4 minutes ago, OverSword said:

The notion that these people are taking jobs nobody else else will do is outdated. Especially in place like Seattle with a $15 minimum wage. One time I was waiting for a to go order at a Chinese restaurant down the street. There was a small march planned to protest something or other and a group of motorcycle police had pulled up on the corner preparing to block traffic as the march moved down the street. The cook (Mexican) of the restaurant panicked and sprinted out the door getting into a canopied pickup with several people sleeping in the back and sped down the road. Does someone want to tell me that we need to import cooks because no American will do that job?

I know Iowa Republican and Democrats have been looking the other way for decades because of our low unemployment rate and declining population.  The meat packing plants here are almost 100% immigrant labor as is the rest of our Ag.  Regular Americans just don't seem to want to move here and work in a meat packing plant for a few bucks over minimum wage.

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Likely Guy
4 minutes ago, joc said:

Which screams....F A K E    N E W S.....

Same as the President.

Nothing new.

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Likely Guy
Just now, joc said:

I don't trust the Elite Left Media...so....I'm going with....they made it up...

Whatever makes you happy.

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joc
2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Fewer than me or most of the people I know? Doubtful. They commit more crimes than me the moment they cross the border. Also keep in mind that importing illegal labor is a huge industry creating luxurious wealth for organized crime syndicates in Mexico. People that endorse or dismiss this are being thoughtless.

Yeah...you don't just swim across the Rio Grande and walk to Dallas.  On average...6000 dollars...each....and it is paid upfront...that's what I was told anyway by someone who knows...an illegal Mexican...and others I know have confirmed it....

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joc
Just now, Likely Guy said:

Whatever makes you happy.

So am I to infer from that, that trusting the Elite Leftist Media does make you happy?   Ignorance is Bliss they say.... 

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Gromdor
1 minute ago, joc said:

Yeah...you don't just swim across the Rio Grande and walk to Dallas.  On average...6000 dollars...each....and it is paid upfront...that's what I was told anyway by someone who knows...an illegal Mexican...and others I know have confirmed it....

Yeah, I've heard similar.  Some even provide fake ID's on the spot.  It's why I think the wall idea is a joke.  We don't even bother trying to shut down the business.  We just go for their customers.

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joc
4 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

I know Iowa Republican and Democrats have been looking the other way for decades because of our low unemployment rate and declining population.  The meat packing plants here are almost 100% immigrant labor as is the rest of our Ag.  Regular Americans just don't seem to want to move here and work in a meat packing plant for a few bucks over minimum wage.

Gromdor, ALL  Republicans and   ALL  Democrats have been looking the other way for decades...and it isn't that Americans won't work in meat packing plants...it is that illegals will work harder...because they have to...because they have a debt to pay...they owe somebody for the pleasure of being here illegally...it is a vicious cycle...and long before Trump arrived on the scene...myself and others have been saying....build a damn wall...all the way from Brownsville to San Diego...then deal with the population that is here on an individual basis.

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Likely Guy
2 minutes ago, joc said:

So am I to infer from that, that trusting the Elite Leftist Media does make you happy?   Ignorance is Bliss they say.... 

No, I infer you've left the collective thought of the discussion.

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joc
1 minute ago, Likely Guy said:

No, I infer you've left the collective thought of the discussion.

Well  you infer incorrectly...I didn't 'leave' the collective thought of the discussion... I have never been part of the 'collective thought'.   Collectives are for sheep...I prefer the forest and my own thought process...but then again...that explains why I don't watch News TV and others do.

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Gromdor
2 minutes ago, joc said:

Gromdor, ALL  Republicans and   ALL  Democrats have been looking the other way for decades...and it isn't that Americans won't work in meat packing plants...it is that illegals will work harder...because they have to...because they have a debt to pay...they owe somebody for the pleasure of being here illegally...it is a vicious cycle...and long before Trump arrived on the scene...myself and others have been saying....build a damn wall...all the way from Brownsville to San Diego...then deal with the population that is here on an individual basis.

Eh, the illegals I have met were forced to pay cash.  The coyotes have better things to do than keep track of former customers and any debt.

As for the jobs.  We had openings even during the great recession and unemployment of 2007/8 and yet Americans didn't want to do it.  The illegals have a lower unemployment rate than the average american.

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odas
2 hours ago, OverSword said:

Trump doesn’t blame black, Mexicans etc. and it’s disingenuous to say so. He blames people and especially criminals who cross the border illegally. I have no sympathy for people that enter illegally, I would never dream of entering a country illegally or once there breaking their laws. Please note entering illegally starts you off on the wrong foot by making the first thing you do illegal.

btw sorry for the idiot comment I meant that as a generalization and not a personal attack on you. My friend Helen also compares Trump with a notorious fascist but I don’t think she’s an idiot. Quite the opposite.

Don't worry about the comment. If I was an idiot I'd be the President of USA now.

I agree with you on the criminality of illegaly crossing a border, but people have and will continue to do illegal things to prosper. It is our all history. That is how we moved forward and stayed alive. God forbid anything happens I assure you that there would be nothing in the world to prevent you from keeping your family alive, no law, no morals, nothing. Trust me (no, I am not a Doctor).

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Myles

Open borders is a horrible idea and nearly every country agrees.  

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