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Farmer77

Resistance From Inside Trump Admin

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joc
17 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

That's just it.  The meating packing plants here in Iowa are almost 100% Immigrant workers.  Americans aren't doing it at all.  Most of the charges at Postville were identity fraud charges. (The supervisors there were charged with providing the fake document, even.) 

How can there be 100% IMMIGRANT workers when they are being provided with fake documents...illegal is illegal...IMMIGRANT is simply someone who has immigrated to America...there are legal and illegal immigrants.  We don't call ILLEGAL immigrants IMMIGRANTS...we call them illegal immigrants.

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Gromdor
5 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

Panzer Kaserne near Stuttgart and then Armstrong Kaserne north of Hanau, myself. I was a Scout.

Even with a fixation on Nazism like that, eh? You should have seen the national car museum at Mulhouse, France, its amazing. 

It's like that every Summer! Jeez, dude; the southern part of the state and most of the east part gets no rain at all from the end of May to late September. 

You see, its these kinds of Judgement calls that just blow your whole scene.

What I said was-

So quit making crap up.... unless that's all that you have.

All this stupid propaganda is so old it may seem new again, but it isn't.

How the hell would you know what my feelings are from where you are sitting? Are you God, or do you just want his job? :P

Most likely the later, but anyway....

Ah, staving children everywhere, eh? And what are you doing to save them, exactly? Seems like you'd have to be an inhuman monster to be seeing them every day and just blowing them off.

But you don't see them, do you, your just making more trashy BS up. 

.... as if anyone can't tell. :rolleyes:

Cars aren't my thing. Checking out old castles and things like Sherwood Forest and the Black Forest were more my thing.

Oregon was not like that every summer.  I lived there a quite a few years- even graduated high school there.  Granted that was many decades ago.  My Oregon friends did say that it was like that for quite a while and that some farmers were starting to grow California-type crops.  What you say could be quite true, from your perspective, especially if you are considerably younger than me or have moved there fairly recently.

As for you're feelings getting hurt, it's pretty obvious.  Why else would you cry whenever someone brings up the correlations between Trump's behavior and Hitler's?  It's the same as covering your ears and going, "la la la".

As for this part:

5 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

Ah, staving children everywhere, eh? And what are you doing to save them, exactly? Seems like you'd have to be an inhuman monster to be seeing them every day and just blowing them off.

But you don't see them, do you, your just making more trashy BS up. 

.... as if anyone can't tell. :rolleyes:

The wife has a friend that she has come over every weekend.  She brings her kids.  The kids play with mine, the women chat all day, and the we feed her kids.  Because, well, she and her husband are poor.  He works full time at a manufacturing job making about $20/hr, she studies to be a nurse but can't afford daycare, they have student debt, rent, medical expenses (Poor people can't even afford to break bones these days), and food costs.  They both went to a counselor because their money problem was getting so bad that they were at the point of divorce.

So there is two right there, just in my weekly personal life. And no they are not immigrants. 

Oregon is just as bad as Iowa: https://www.oregonfoodbank.org/our-work/programs/food-access/child-hunger-programs/

What are you doing about it, besides blaming illegal aliens?

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Gromdor
1 minute ago, joc said:

How can there be 100% IMMIGRANT workers when they are being provided with fake documents...illegal is illegal...IMMIGRANT is simply someone who has immigrated to America...there are legal and illegal immigrants.  We don't call ILLEGAL immigrants IMMIGRANTS...we call them illegal immigrants.

Some actually were Bosnian, Somali, etc. 

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joc
1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

Some actually were Bosnian, Somali, etc. 

I'm sure you know...it is your neck of the woods...I was just referring to illegal immigrant vs. immigrant.  If one has fraudulent documents, then one is illegal.  If one has the appropriate work visas etc, then one is legal...unless one continues working after said visa expires.

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Gromdor
Just now, joc said:

I'm sure you know...it is your neck of the woods...I was just referring to illegal immigrant vs. immigrant.  If one has fraudulent documents, then one is illegal.  If one has the appropriate work visas etc, then one is legal...unless one continues working after said visa expires.

I won't lie, everyone knows that 90% of them are illegal.  But that isn't the point I was trying to make.  Oversword believes that there aren't jobs that Americans won't do.  I was showing him the job openings and the current situation.  If he can get some of his buddies to fill those jobs, he will have proved me wrong.  Moving from the Seattle area is just as hard as moving from Guatemala to fill that vacancy.

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joc
Just now, Gromdor said:

I won't lie, everyone knows that 90% of them are illegal.  But that isn't the point I was trying to make.  Oversword believes that there aren't jobs that Americans won't do.  I was showing him the job openings and the current situation.  If he can get some of his buddies to fill those jobs, he will have proved me wrong.  Moving from the Seattle area is just as hard as moving from Guatemala to fill that vacancy.

Point taken...however...there are reasons Americans don't flock to those jobs...one reason is the Americans we are talking about are millennial males who still live in Mommy and Daddy's basement or whatever...plus Americans, as I said on Welfare of some sort.  I will tell you this...in the Dallas area...forever...it seems...landscaping jobs were the domain of the illegal...as were Fast Food workers.   That whole landscape (pardon the pun) scene has changed almost over night.  A lot of black guys and white guys are cutting grass, edging, and making their own mark on that industry...same with fast food.  A lot of black men and women, white men and women, working in fast food.  These are also jobs Obama told us Americans wouldn't do.

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Gromdor
2 minutes ago, joc said:

Point taken...however...there are reasons Americans don't flock to those jobs...one reason is the Americans we are talking about are millennial males who still live in Mommy and Daddy's basement or whatever...plus Americans, as I said on Welfare of some sort.  I will tell you this...in the Dallas area...forever...it seems...landscaping jobs were the domain of the illegal...as were Fast Food workers.   That whole landscape (pardon the pun) scene has changed almost over night.  A lot of black guys and white guys are cutting grass, edging, and making their own mark on that industry...same with fast food.  A lot of black men and women, white men and women, working in fast food.  These are also jobs Obama told us Americans wouldn't do.

I think that's good and bad at the same time.  It's good that they are doing it, but those jobs really are the poor part-time type jobs teenagers should be doing.  Only someone that is still living with there parents could work stuff like that and not be a burden to the system.

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Big Jim
8 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Reading your response it hit me that perhaps meat packing is an industry which just needs to go automated because once they're legal they can find 1001 jobs making a couple bucks above min wage that dont include slaughtering animals or freezing your ass off all day.

 

Just being legal doesn't give them the credentials and language skills to compete for those jobs.  Immigrants, legal or otherwise, do "the jobs Americans won't do" because they fit their abilities, not because of their immigration status.  In fact, a packing plant is a poor place to hide precisely because they're full of illegals.  There is one not far from where I live and every so often the local sheriff's office does a raid.  They bring school buses.  If the packing plants went automated the people working there would be forced to find jobs lower, not higher.

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Gromdor
16 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

Just being legal doesn't give them the credentials and language skills to compete for those jobs.  Immigrants, legal or otherwise, do "the jobs Americans won't do" because they fit their abilities, not because of their immigration status.  In fact, a packing plant is a poor place to hide precisely because they're full of illegals.  There is one not far from where I live and every so often the local sheriff's office does a raid.  They bring school buses.  If the packing plants went automated the people working there would be forced to find jobs lower, not higher.

They are headed that direction.  Did an egg plant quite a few years back.  Couple million chickens and 11 employees.  Was neat how everything worked, but disappointing at the same time.  Did some work over at John Deere as well.  They had posters up with their various tractors.  The posters showed how much labor was saved by each invention.  One cotton picking machine saved the labor of over 40 workers, for instance.

I think over automation is actually harming traditional farm families.  One 70 yr old farmer can manage a 1000+ acre farm himself.  There was no need for his kids to learn it.  Now when he dies, his grand kids just fight over divvying up the farm to sell.

 One of the guys from work wanted to work at/take over his father's farm.  But his father really didn't need his labor, didn't want to waste money paying him for nothing, and will probably continue farming till Blake (the guy from work) is easily into his late 50's. Blake will never make the money to start a farm of his own, so Blake is a construction worker. 

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RavenHawk
1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

I won't lie, everyone knows that 90% of them are illegal.

And you were arguing me that there weren’t any!  They are getting assistance from somewhere and they aren’t being counted.  Most of them are involved in identity fraud.  And there are probably citizens that are breaking the law providing those IDs

 

But that isn't the point I was trying to make.  Oversword believes that there aren't jobs that Americans won't do. 

Mark Levin provided the numbers in one of his radio shows.  Those jobs that are considered traditionally “immigrant” (legal or illegal) are mostly occupied by citizens.  Jobs that Americans won’t do is a myth.

 

I was showing him the job openings and the current situation.  If he can get some of his buddies to fill those jobs, he will have proved me wrong.  Moving from the Seattle area is just as hard as moving from Guatemala to fill that vacancy.

I think location has a lot to do with it.  I wouldn’t expect someone from Seattle or Guatemala would want to move to Iowa, especially in the winter.  But someone from Northern Europe would be fine with it.  Or Illegals that are desperate.

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Helen of Annoy

Back on topic, was the writer identified?

Knowing who is behind it would help determine was it really someone with residual common sense, trying to save the party, or someone with residual conscience, trying to save the country (though in the wrong way), or someone who's only helping Trump's future insanity defence?

Of course, it could also be a hint of an actual putsch coming. It would totally break all TV ratings records. If it's going to be televised.  

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RavenHawk
8 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Dont get me wrong, I understand the attraction to Trump's rhetoric and the outsider image he and Cambridge Analytica have created, I really do. In fact if it weren't coming from such an obvious conman I would most likely be onboard.

Has Cambridge Analytica been around 40+ years?  No?    Then why are you fibbing?  I don’t think you do understand the attraction.  That’s why you are the way you are.

 

Where your point falls short is being rude isnt honesty, its laziness. Being casually cruel isnt honesty, it simply displays a truly broken spirit racked with insecurities. Being unnecessary insulting isnt being honest its bullying.

Yes, that is exactly being honest.  It may also be laziness or just tired of the BS.  It is hardly a broken spirit.  It is a battle of wills between someone full of life and energy and the stupidity that people do.  It is very necessary.

 

You can be honest, you can buck political norms and you can be different than your predecessor all without the mocking cruelty. In fact most Americans I know manage to accomplish that every day. 

And there are times you need to be cruel or nothing will ever change.  We are in one of those times.  Trump supporters understand this.

 

IDK what god forsaken shitholes those who claim trump just "talks normal" live in but I sure as hell hope I dont ever have to visit.

Growing up, I had to deal with my grandfather.  He made Trump look like a tamed pu$$y cat.  I would always joke that because of my grandfather, boot camp was easy and in many ways, I did grow some skin then and it benefits me today.  There are many kinds of leaders and many styles of leadership.  A poor leader will harangue and belittle you and tear you down like an Obama or Hilary.  A good leader will do almost the same thing, but instead of tearing you down, will build you up.  This is what Trump does.

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RavenHawk
14 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Back on topic, was the writer identified?

Yes, I saw last night where Tyrus had admitted to writing it.  He also said that no one can prove him wrong! :rofl:

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Helen of Annoy
5 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Yes, I saw last night where Tyrus had admitted to writing it.  He also said that no one can prove him wrong! :rofl:

The tragic part is that I'm not sure that particular person is not one of Trump's 'best people' only. 

Just two years ago, something so surreal would be, of course, impossible.

 

It makes me wonder how much longer can the US run on autopilot, without functional administration.  

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Gromdor
1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

And you were arguing me that there weren’t any!  They are getting assistance from somewhere and they aren’t being counted.  Most of them are involved in identity fraud.  And there are probably citizens that are breaking the law providing those IDs

 

 

 

Mark Levin provided the numbers in one of his radio shows.  Those jobs that are considered traditionally “immigrant” (legal or illegal) are mostly occupied by citizens.  Jobs that Americans won’t do is a myth.

 

 

 

I think location has a lot to do with it.  I wouldn’t expect someone from Seattle or Guatemala would want to move to Iowa, especially in the winter.  But someone from Northern Europe would be fine with it.  Or Illegals that are desperate.

Nope, I said they were immigrants.  You were the one saying they were just illegals. 

As for Mark Levin, you saw the job listing. Send one of your friends to fill it.  As of right now, it is all immigrant labor.

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joc
3 hours ago, Gromdor said:

I think that's good and bad at the same time.  It's good that they are doing it, but those jobs really are the poor part-time type jobs teenagers should be doing.  Only someone that is still living with there parents could work stuff like that and not be a burden to the system.

And...as long as illegals are in those positions...no teenager is going to be hired whether they want to or not...and you cannot know that they don't want to...the fact is they don't have a chance because the positions are already filled....take those illegal immigrants out of the picture and suddenly...there is work for teenagers.

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joc
3 hours ago, Gromdor said:

I won't lie, everyone knows that 90% of them are illegal.  But that isn't the point I was trying to make.  Oversword believes that there aren't jobs that Americans won't do.  I was showing him the job openings and the current situation.  If he can get some of his buddies to fill those jobs, he will have proved me wrong.  Moving from the Seattle area is just as hard as moving from Guatemala to fill that vacancy.

 

8 minutes ago, joc said:

wrong quote

"Gromdor:  Nope, I said they were immigrants.  You were the one saying they were just illegals. 

As for Mark Levin, you saw the job listing. Send one of your friends to fill it.  As of right now, it is all immigrant labor."

 

so...which is it Gromdor.  You are talking out of both sides of your mouth...are they immigrants or illegal immigrants...the two terms are not interchangeable.

Edited by joc

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Gromdor
2 minutes ago, joc said:

And...as long as illegals are in those positions...no teenager is going to be hired whether they want to or not...and you cannot know that they don't want to...the fact is they don't have a chance because the positions are already filled....take those illegal immigrants out of the picture and suddenly...there is work for teenagers.

You are saying they are being filled where you are at by adults.  Here in Iowa, it is still immigrants of questionable legality.  The teens around here work at the "cool" jobs.

 

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joc
17 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

 

never mind...my brain isn't clicking.....lol

Edited by joc

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Gromdor
Just now, joc said:

 

so...which is it Gromdor.  You are talking out of both sides of your mouth...are they immigrants or illegal immigrants...the two terms are not interchangeable.

They are immigrants with documentation.  Documentation that no one cares to verify.  Just like the Molly Tibbetts killer.  He worked at a farm owned by a prominent republican here in Iowa.  He had fake papers but his employer preferred not to check into it far enough to not hire him.

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Sir Wearer of Hats
3 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

It makes me wonder how much longer can the US run on autopilot, without functional administration.  

The government runs as it awlays has, the spokesmen change but the people doing the work continue to do the work. 

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Big Jim
3 hours ago, Gromdor said:

They are immigrants with documentation.  Documentation that no one cares to verify.  Just like the Molly Tibbetts killer.  He worked at a farm owned by a prominent republican here in Iowa.  He had fake papers but his employer preferred not to check into it far enough to not hire him.

Do you know that for a fact?  Whenever I've needed "papers" for something, whether buying a house or applying for a job, the people on the other side accept them as legitimate, assuming that the rest of the system works.  Our entire economy would grind to a halt if everyone's credentials had to be thoroughly vetted whenever they were presented.  The person in question was applying for a farm job, not high level clearance.  Any crime committed relating to the fake ID is his fault alone for abusing a system that has to rely on a certain degree of honesty by all participants.

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Gromdor
23 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

Do you know that for a fact?  Whenever I've needed "papers" for something, whether buying a house or applying for a job, the people on the other side accept them as legitimate, assuming that the rest of the system works.  Our entire economy would grind to a halt if everyone's credentials had to be thoroughly vetted whenever they were presented.  The person in question was applying for a farm job, not high level clearance.  Any crime committed relating to the fake ID is his fault alone for abusing a system that has to rely on a certain degree of honesty by all participants.

Yes, I've done construction work at such places and have talked to the people that worked there.  At Postville for example, the supervisors were the ones giving the employees the fake ID's when they were hiring them.  Also with the Brazilian/Italian wife, I get to talk to a lot of the local Brazilians and hear their stories and about where they work.  Places like the meat packing plants make our immigration policy a mockery.

You want to stop illegal immigrants?  Don't build a stupid wall.  Punish companies and people that employ them.   Ants come because there is sugar in the house.

You think that the illegal immigrant that killed Molly Tibbetts would have been around if he didn't have a job for the last 4 years?  You think he would have even come to Iowa if he couldn't get a job? 

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AnchorSteam
8 hours ago, Gromdor said:

As for you're feelings getting hurt, it's pretty obvious.  Why else would you cry whenever someone brings up the correlations between Trump's behavior and Hitler's? 

Because it is so cheap and easy on your part.

Because it is factually incorrect.

Because it is so boring.

And because, like the play that featured a room full of guys knifing a Trump look-alike it is a nasty way of trying to encourage some psychopath to do your dirty work for you and assassinate a sitting President. And if that happens the Left will never be able to live it down. You think  JFK's assassination had long-lasting repercussions? Hell, you ain't seen nothing yet. 

Oh, and "cry"? Fine, be as childish as you like projecting you own failings on everyone else you disagree with. If anyone cares, they are brain-damaged.

Edited by AnchorSteam
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Big Jim
2 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Yes, I've done construction work at such places and have talked to the people that worked there.  At Postville for example, the supervisors were the ones giving the employees the fake ID's when they were hiring them.  Also with the Brazilian/Italian wife, I get to talk to a lot of the local Brazilians and hear their stories and about where they work.  Places like the meat packing plants make our immigration policy a mockery.

You want to stop illegal immigrants?  Don't build a stupid wall.  Punish companies and people that employ them.   Ants come because there is sugar in the house.

You think that the illegal immigrant that killed Molly Tibbetts would have been around if he didn't have a job for the last 4 years?  You think he would have even come to Iowa if he couldn't get a job? 

I agree completely, but I was asking if you knew for a fact that the employer in this case preferred not to check, as you claimed.   I have nothing against immigrants personally.  Where I worked I always tried to learn a little Spanish just to help the janitors feel more comfortable.  Sorry to disappoint all those that think anti-immigrant Trump supporters are automatically racists.  But as a nation I think we need to do everything possible, including the Wall, to limit immigration to legal entrants only. Punishing employers is not enough because our social safety net makes surviving without a job not only possible, but very attractive.   That means removing all incentives, including granting automatic citizenship to babies born here to parents who have entered illegally.  This isn't a game where you score by getting the ball over the line.  We also need to repatriate, as much as possible, those who have come in the past with no attempt at becoming legal at any level.  

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