Old Realms Deserve Real History

[Roc Koch]

So long shrouded in mystery, the Gulf of Mexico has the look of a valley, smaller, though not unlike the potential of an earlier Mediterranean valley. Before the relocation of the last Ice Age some 14,500 years ago, the Earth’s waters were much lower, and it is most conceivable that the Gulf was the seat of a mighty civilization which was ruined in the great flood cataclysm. The Olmecs seem to have come to the eastern shores of Mexico from a land that now appears to be drowned. Their old myths are enigmatic, and in many cases, totally incomplete. The retrieval of the past can be a heart rending experience for a culture under siege, as the Mexicans were when the Europeans came calling. Much valuable archaeological material was destroyed by the invading Spaniards from the sixteenth century on to our present time. New finds are even now being plunged into the "politically correct" record of history and drowned by academic evangelists protecting their tired propaganda of how things really aren’t.

[Roc Koch]

I believe that prior to the Carolina Bays Event of a comet coming into our realms that fragmented and parts went into orbit around the planet for at least a thousand years and become the Feathered Serpent of Ancient Mexico. The comet rained down and impacted the planet in many ways. Mexico was built on chaos and intellect. There is too much evidence for a high advanced culture of well educated engineers establishing their recovery and survival centered on Mexico. We need to study this area on a much deeper level. 

[+Not A Rockstar]

I agree that their stone craft and building capacity was extraordinary from what we can see. One can suppose that the rest of their knowledge was as complex, simply was too fragile in the material of fibers and (perhaps) parchment or skins to survive to see today. I have long since lost my general notion that early man was primitive and less "smart" than modern man. They had a lot going on and mastered their world.

But, you say : The Olmecs seem to have come to the eastern shores of Mexico from a land that now appears to be drowned. Their old myths are enigmatic, and in many cases, totally incomplete.

Where is documentation to support this? Versus just time and the Spanish invasion and plundering breaking apart the historic records, I mean. 

I do not think there can be any denial that the Spanish destroyed a great deal of the historic record and wealth of Mexico and surrounding areas, but, I do not see modern archeology doing anything but preserving what is left and documenting what they find. I do not see grounds for your hostility nor do I see a counter proposal from you as to what you think the "truth" is, which is being hidden or suppressed. Where do you think there needs to be more study on a much deeper level?

Or is this just a different Atlantis thread?

[Piney]

26 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Or is this just a different Atlantis thread?

This is a liar who makes stuff up....

 

53 minutes ago, Roc Koch said:

I believe that prior to the Carolina Bays Event of a comet coming into our realms that fragmented and parts went into orbit around the planet for at least a thousand years

You mean the "Younger Dryas Event". The one there is no evidence for in any area of the East Coast. Because Carolina bays were created by melting permafrost.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Piney

[Piney]

59 minutes ago, Roc Koch said:

 Before the relocation of the last Ice Age some 14,500 years ago,

Where did it relocate too? 

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Roc Koch said:

The Olmecs seem to have come to the eastern shores of Mexico from a land that now appears to be drowned.

No they came from the Western side of Central America and migrated East. 

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Roc Koch said:

New finds are even now being plunged into the "politically correct" record of history and drowned by academic evangelists protecting their tired propaganda of how things really aren’t.

What finds? Where? Have you actually made it out into the field? 

[+Not A Rockstar]

1 minute ago, Piney said:

This is a liar who makes stuff up....

 

You mean the "Younger Dryas Event". The one there is no evidence for in any area of the East Coast. Because Carolina bays were created by melting permafrost.

Sad.

I have often wondered if seeing a spectacular comet coming by inspired some tales which evolved into the feathered serpent lore, like Halleys or something, but nothing like the supposed Younger Dryas event.

Anyway, moving on ...

[Piney]

12 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

I have often wondered if seeing a spectacular comet coming by inspired some tales which evolved into the feathered serpent lore, like Halleys or something, but nothing like the supposed Younger Dryas event.

 

The "Dragon" was originally "Azi" the Wolf Headed serpent in Proto-Indo-Iranian lore. He was carried East and West by nomadic Iranian tribes. Before the Earth's precession Thuban, the central star in Draco was the Polar Star and Draco spun in the sky like a spiral. 

The Feathered Serpent was something else. Probably mutually originating along with the Horn Serpent as the personification of a river. Then as priests and Holy Men get new ideas. The aspects of spirits change

[Swede]

2 hours ago, Roc Koch said:

So long shrouded in mystery, the Gulf of Mexico has the look of a valley, smaller, though not unlike the potential of an earlier Mediterranean valley. Before the relocation of the last Ice Age some 14,500 years ago, the Earth’s waters were much lower, and it is most conceivable that the Gulf was the seat of a mighty civilization which was ruined in the great flood cataclysm. The Olmecs seem to have come to the eastern shores of Mexico from a land that now appears to be drowned. Their old myths are enigmatic, and in many cases, totally incomplete. The retrieval of the past can be a heart rending experience for a culture under siege, as the Mexicans were when the Europeans came calling. Much valuable archaeological material was destroyed by the invading Spaniards from the sixteenth century on to our present time. New finds are even now being plunged into the "politically correct" record of history and drowned by academic evangelists protecting their tired propaganda of how things really aren’t.

Do you have any concept of timelines? If so, kindly present your documented data regarding the post-Wisconsin/Wurm basin changes and directly tie them to the development of the Olmec civilization.

Furthermore, kindly present credible "new finds" that are being "drowned by academic evangelists". Please address the above in detail with, again, valid research.

.

[Harte]

2 hours ago, Not A Rockstar said:

I agree that their stone craft and building capacity was extraordinary from what we can see. One can suppose that the rest of their knowledge was as complex, simply was too fragile in the material of fibers and (perhaps) parchment or skins to survive to see today. I have long since lost my general notion that early man was primitive and less "smart" than modern man. They had a lot going on and mastered their world.

But, you say : The Olmecs seem to have come to the eastern shores of Mexico from a land that now appears to be drowned. Their old myths are enigmatic, and in many cases, totally incomplete.

Where is documentation to support this? [/quote]

Nonexistent.

Quote

Unlike the Maya and Aztec cultures, there is no surviving record of Olmec beliefs. What is known about Olmec mythology has been determined by studying Olmec art and inscriptions that did survive, and by comparing Olmec beliefs to other, later Mesoamerican cultures.

Source

Harte

Edited September 10, 2018 by Harte

[Piney]

3 minutes ago, Harte said:

Nonexistent.

Quote

Like @Roc Koch s background and his reading list. 

Ronny do you actually read books on archaeology or just scan the web because your ignorance is astounding? 

[jaylemurph]

1 hour ago, Swede said:

Do you have any concept of timelines? If so, kindly present your documented data regarding the post-Wisconsin/Wurm basin changes and directly tie them to the development of the Olmec civilization.

Furthermore, kindly present credible "new finds" that are being "drowned by academic evangelists". Please address the above in detail with, again, valid research.

.

If he /could/ produce anything like a credible claim, wouldn’t he have done so with glee years before now?

All he can do is flap his lying lips and waste our time. Just like he’s done for years. 

—Jaylemurph 

[Piney]

16 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

All he can do is flap his lying lips and waste our time.

and run without answering pertinent questions...

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

12 hours ago, Piney said:

Where did it relocate too? 

Six miles outside of Slough, just off the M4.

[Farmer77]

10 hours ago, Piney said:

Like @Roc Koch s background and his reading list. 

Ronny do you actually read books on archaeology or just scan the web because your ignorance is astounding? 

OK so up front I just scan the web on archaeology so my ignorance is astounding

But I do have a question:  despite the attempted drawing of conclusions (or mythology?) in the OP isnt there some logic to the concept that the now submerged coastlines of say 20k years ago (i think OP said 14) would be where we would find civilization if it existed?

 

[Piney]

3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

But I do have a question:  despite the attempted drawing of conclusions (or mythology?) in the OP isnt there some logic to the concept that the now submerged coastlines of say 20k years ago (i think OP said 14) would be where we would find civilization if it existed?

 

With the amount of scuba diving and underwater caving that goes on in the Gulf of Mexico somebody would of found something. Also, there are underwater limestone cave sites with prehistoric remains.

 I know the OP he's trying to gain a following through his "advanced? knowledge". He doesn't read anything beyond the internet. "Channels aliens" and makes stuff up. He also claimed to be a "Cherokee Shaman" and primitive living expert. Which  p***ed me off.

[Farmer77]

1 minute ago, Piney said:

With the amount of scuba diving and underwater caving that goes on in the Gulf of Mexico somebody would of found something. Also, there are underwater limestone cave sites with prehistoric remains.

Where would the coastline have been at that point? Im envisioning (while being totally ignorant ) it being just generically out at points which are now thousands of feet underwater. Am i picturing it inaccurately?

Hope you dont mind the stupid questions.

 

2 minutes ago, Piney said:

 I know the OP he's trying to gain a following through his "advanced? knowledge". He doesn't read anything beyond the internet. "Channels aliens" and makes stuff up. He also claimed to be a "Cherokee Shaman" and primitive living expert. Which  p***ed me off.

Ahhh that explains that and,now that i reread it, the agenda driven nature of the OP. 

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

Where would the coastline have been at that point? Im envisioning (while being totally ignorant ) it being just generically out at points which are now thousands of feet underwater. Am i picturing it inaccurately?

 

A few hundred feet. 300 to 600. Dredges bring up Clovis stuff all the time and there has been some serious underwater expeditions up and down the West Coast. We found a possible Clovis site on Long Beach Island, New Jersey which is a "moving" barrier island. 

[jaylemurph]

7 hours ago, Piney said:

With the amount of scuba diving and underwater caving that goes on in the Gulf of Mexico somebody would of found something. Also, there are underwater limestone cave sites with prehistoric remains.

 I know the OP he's trying to gain a following through his "advanced? knowledge". He doesn't read anything beyond the internet. "Channels aliens" and makes stuff up. He also claimed to be a "Cherokee Shaman" and primitive living expert. Which  p***ed me off.

He's also claimed to be a professor and a university president, both of which are laughably transparently not true. 

Not to mention the complete failure of his 2012 predictions and his revision that it would happen a year or two later.

The only reasonable conclusion is that evry word out of his mouth is a lie.

--Jaylemurph

[Piney]

47 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

He's also claimed to be a professor and a university president, both of which are laughably transparently not true. 

 

Took me about 1 hour to sniff him out and find who he really was. . 

[Harte]

3 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

He's also claimed to be a professor and a university president, both of which are laughably transparently not true. 

Such highly educated personages such as yourself should cringe at the missing comma above.

Unless, of course, you are part of the anti comma brigade, a faction that bemoans the comma's overuse.

3 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

Not to mention the complete failure of his 2012 predictions and his revision that it would happen a year or two later.

The only reasonable conclusion is that evry word out of his mouth is a lie.

--Jaylemurph

Or that he enjoys the occasional jerk of a chain.

Harte

[Harte]

10 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

OK so up front I just scan the web on archaeology so my ignorance is astounding

But I do have a question:  despite the attempted drawing of conclusions (or mythology?) in the OP isnt there some logic to the concept that the now submerged coastlines of say 20k years ago (i think OP said 14) would be where we would find civilization if it existed?

Very probably not, unless it's a point on the coast where a river comes in. People have to have fresh water.

And agriculture, one of the hallmarks of every civilization, doesn't do that well near the ocean.

Even if there was a river mouth, with the costs involved it makes far more sense to look on dry land upstream along that same river if you're hoping there's ancient habitation sites on the coast. If they existed, you'd at least be somewhat likely to find the fields that way. If people used that coast before the sea level rose, it was probably as temporary fishing camps if you think about it.

There is at least one Jomon site that was flooded and is (or was - I don't read the trade mags) being investigated by diving archaeologists.

Which brings up an amusing mental image involving my buddy Hans.

Harte

ETA: Obviously, all the above ignores the fact that people actually move rather than drown. (Possibly millions of years ago this wasn't so, but survival of the fittest and whatnot....) I mean, even the pulses were no more than, what, a meter a year maybe?

A civilization isn't going to drop everything and become hunter-gatherers again because their feet got wet.

H.

Edited September 11, 2018 by Harte

[Swede]

20 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

If he /could/ produce anything like a credible claim, wouldn’t he have done so with glee years before now?

All he can do is flap his lying lips and waste our time. Just like he’s done for years. 

—Jaylemurph 

Quite true. For some reason, the situation reminds me of an old but applicable bit of humor:

Q: What is the difference between genius and stupidity?

A: Genius has its limits...

.

[Roc Koch]

On 9/10/2018 at 6:44 PM, Piney said:

Like @Roc Koch s background and his reading list. 

Ronny do you actually read books on archaeology or just scan the web because your ignorance is astounding? 

Yes I do read incessantly but I am getting older and perhaps I miss a beat every once in a while. You however are unkind in your remarks and I for one am somewhat disappointed in your responses. Can you try a little harder to be respectful?