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RoofGardener

Did MI6 assassinate people ?

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RoofGardener

@Ozymandias, in another post, implied that the British security services (either the Security Services, or the Secret Intelligence Services, had resorted to assassination in recent years. (e.g. after WW2). 

I don't think they did ! 

Does anyone have any info on this ? 

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acute

I think people are very naive if they refuse to believe that the Secret Services take people out on a regular basis.

Edited by acute
Oops! Cockup.
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Essan
19 minutes ago, acute said:

I think people are very naive if they refuse to believe that the Secret Services take people out on a regular basis.

I think people are very naive if they believe that the Secret Services take people out on a regular basis.

But I am sure they do on the rare occasion.  

007 notwithstanding.

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acute

^ Doesn't the sudden 'unexplained' disappearance of 006 prove my point?

;)

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Habitat

Ironically, the Cathedral Inspectors, if they are indeed part of the Russian security services, probably have a good idea of the score in this matter.

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RabidMongoose
1 hour ago, acute said:

I think people are very naive if they refuse to believe that the Secret Services take people out on a regular basis.

Here in the UK the security services have admitted that they monitor all communication (without a warrant). It has also been admitted that they can record conversations though anything that has an internet connection (including HDTVs and monitors). The claim though is they dont read or use that information unless a court orders them too.

There have got to be situations where evidence is gained illegally and cannot be used in a trial. So if you know a terrorist is going to commit an attack, and you cannot arrest them, then what do you do? Of course no Government ever admits to this kind of dirty work but I think anybody who believes it doesnt go on is quite naïve.

What about that case in Gibraltar where suspected SAS took out suspected IRA terrorists (whose families later claimed their innocence)? 

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Habitat

You'd have to say if they haven't rubbed anyone out since WW2, they haven't been on the job.

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RoofGardener
42 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Here in the UK the security services have admitted that they monitor all communication (without a warrant). It has also been admitted that they can record conversations though anything that has an internet connection (including HDTVs and monitors). The claim though is they dont read or use that information unless a court orders them too.

There have got to be situations where evidence is gained illegally and cannot be used in a trial. So if you know a terrorist is going to commit an attack, and you cannot arrest them, then what do you do? Of course no Government ever admits to this kind of dirty work but I think anybody who believes it doesnt go on is quite naïve.

What about that case in Gibraltar where suspected SAS took out suspected IRA terrorists (whose families later claimed their innocence)? 

That wasn't the security services. The SiS or the SS may well have given Intel on the terrorists, but they do NOT carry guns, nor arrange for assassinations. EVER. 

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Avalanche

I just finished a book about britain most famous spy  Harold “Kim” Philby and believe they did carry out a few assasinations even if  there is many ways  to secretly take someone out without any notice I dont think it´s very common cause it´s better to capture and keep the object alive to get intel etc. If you want to assasinate someone you have many things that can go awry and also you got a body to dispose of and their  main goal is to remain hidden in the shadows with their cloak and daggers ;-) If I knew more about this i probably would have been assasinated ;-)

 

Edited by Avalanche

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RoofGardener
2 minutes ago, Avalanche said:

I just finished a book about britain most famous spy  Harold “Kim” Philby and believe they did carry out a few assasinations even if  there is many ways  to secretly take someone out without any notice I dont think it´s very common cause it´s better to capture and keep the object alive to get intel etc. If you want to assasinate someone you have many things that can go awry and also you got a body to dispose of and their  main goal is to remain hidden in the shadows with their cloak and daggers ;-) If I knew more about this i probably would have been assasinated ;-)

 

What is the basis for this belief, Avalanche ? 

There has never been a documented case of the British security services arranging for assassination attempts. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2242287/MI6-told-agent-kill-al-Qaeda-leader-assassinations-breach-British-law.html

Politicians have requested that MI6 kill people, but they have always refused. 

In Britain, the temptation to employ assassination as a shortcut remained. When he was Foreign Secretary in the late 1970s, David Owen asked his officials if the brutal Ugandan dictator Idi Amin could be killed. He recalls how the official who acted as liaison with MI6 raised himself up to his full height to tell him: "We don't do that sort of thing."...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17353379

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Avalanche
21 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

What is the basis for this belief, Avalanche ? 

There has never been a documented case of the British security services arranging for assassination attempts. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2242287/MI6-told-agent-kill-al-Qaeda-leader-assassinations-breach-British-law.html

Politicians have requested that MI6 kill people, but they have always refused. 

 

 

Then they have made a good job.:-)  let me rephrase myself they may or may not have carried out assasinations cause its in their aim of the game to keep things in secrecy.
My basis for this belief is from what I have read about spies and our secret services there is much stuff going on that we dont have a clue about this is why I´m very ambivalent when it comes to this question.

Edited by Avalanche
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stevewinn
2 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

@Ozymandias, in another post, implied that the British security services (either the Security Services, or the Secret Intelligence Services, had resorted to assassination in recent years. (e.g. after WW2). 

I don't think they did ! 

Does anyone have any info on this ? 

It'll never be confirmed or admitted, but we can say with some certainty, they did when infiltrating the IRA, the British security services. One example was a mi6 agent joined the IRA, in the process in order to keep their cover they killed other IRA members and other vivals.

This British secret service set up a network whereby they owned an estate agency, renting houses. As the mi6 agent(s) (owners of the estate agency) gained their (IRA) trust over a number of years they rented houses cheap to 'fellow' IRA members where the houses would be wired allow intel gathering. The most famous case was agent "stake knife"

 

 

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RoofGardener
36 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

It'll never be confirmed or admitted, but we can say with some certainty, they did when infiltrating the IRA, the British security services. One example was a mi6 agent joined the IRA, in the process in order to keep their cover they killed other IRA members and other vivals.

This British secret service set up a network whereby they owned an estate agency, renting houses. As the mi6 agent(s) (owners of the estate agency) gained their (IRA) trust over a number of years they rented houses cheap to 'fellow' IRA members where the houses would be wired allow intel gathering. The most famous case was agent "stake knife"

 

 

Steve, do you have any links on the "...in order to keep their cover they killed other IRA members.." bit ? 

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stevewinn
33 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Steve, do you have any links on the "...in order to keep their cover they killed other IRA members.." bit ? 

No, only what's contained within the BBC panorama video. 

What the secret service do will never be revealed. Only what they want us to know will be known. But at a guess, and I think we all understand that secret service members will have assassinated in the name of the state. 

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RoofGardener
30 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

No, only what's contained within the BBC panorama video. 

What the secret service do will never be revealed. Only what they want us to know will be known. But at a guess, and I think we all understand that secret service members will have assassinated in the name of the state. 

No, they have not. 

They may gather information for other groups... the Army, Special Forces etc. But they do NOT kill people themselves, nor plan to do so. 

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RAyMO

What do you define as security services, I believe your comment on the other thread was to security services rather than narrowly MI6.

As has pointed out there has been evidence of security forces facilitating killings during the 'Troubles'.

Edited by RAyMO

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RoofGardener
22 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

What do you define as security services, I believe your comment on the other thread was to security services rather than narrowly MI6.

As has pointed out there has been evidence of security forces facilitating killings during the 'Troubles'.

The "Security Services" are ... The Security Service (sometimes called MI5), responsible for domestic  terrorism 1 , The Secret Intelligence Service (MI6), responsible for foreign intelligence gathering, and GCHQ, responsible for monitoring communications. 

Nobody has demonstrated ANY evidence thus far in this thread that they where responsible for planning or executing killings in Eire during the troubles. (though Special Branch and Military Intelligence MIGHT have been... but they are not the Security Services).

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stevewinn
Just now, RoofGardener said:

The "Security Services" are ... The Security Service (sometimes called MI5), responsible for domestic  terrorism 1 , The Secret Intelligence Service (MI6), responsible for foreign intelligence gathering, and GCHQ, responsible for monitoring communications. 

Nobody has demonstrated ANY evidence thus far in this thread that they where responsible for planning or executing killings in Eire during the troubles. (though Special Branch and Military Intelligence MIGHT have been... but they are not the Security Services).

Your asking a question that cannot be answered. As long as the Govt don't comment or confirm you'll remain correct.  

But, myself personally, I'd suspect that mi5 or mi6 will have at some point carried out assassinations. It's the world they inhabit. It's not your regular 9 till 5 job. 

Not only that, mi6 had boost on the ground along side the CIA in Afghanistan. I doubt they were sightseeing. What's that famous incident at the Fort when CIA and suspected mi6 agents where ambushed by taliban/prison out break. Also when we where in Iraq, mi6 agents lost their lives. Briefly mentioned by the foreign office at the time. 

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Grey Area
15 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

The "Security Services" are ... The Security Service (sometimes called MI5), responsible for domestic  terrorism 1 , The Secret Intelligence Service (MI6), responsible for foreign intelligence gathering, and GCHQ, responsible for monitoring communications. 

Nobody has demonstrated ANY evidence thus far in this thread that they where responsible for planning or executing killings in Eire during the troubles. (though Special Branch and Military Intelligence MIGHT have been... but they are not the Security Services).

I think you have to be more specific are you talking about MI6 getting their hands dirty or ordering assassinations based on intel?

I would suggest the SAS has carried out numerous kill missions, and there were almost certainly killings carried out in Northern Ireland  sanctioned by Westminster.

But the Secret Service isn’t called that for nothing and the one thing we are particularly good at is not employing Edward Snowden’s, so the true scope of this will never be known.

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RabidMongoose
33 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

The "Security Services" are ... The Security Service (sometimes called MI5), responsible for domestic  terrorism 1 , The Secret Intelligence Service (MI6), responsible for foreign intelligence gathering, and GCHQ, responsible for monitoring communications. 

Nobody has demonstrated ANY evidence thus far in this thread that they where responsible for planning or executing killings in Eire during the troubles. (though Special Branch and Military Intelligence MIGHT have been... but they are not the Security Services).

Those are the ones that the general public know about, whats to say there isn't others?

They even hint there are others from time to time in the media. Remember the London Tube bombing? The news said an anti-terror special forces regiment the public dont know about had got involved.

Can we stop using the term special services too please, this isn't the US, we dont call them that here.

Edited by RabidMongoose
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RAyMO
54 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

The Security Service (sometimes called MI5), responsible for domestic  terrorism

I don't think many, on either side of the fence in Northern Ireland would agree with your contention that MI5 NEVER EVER sanctioned assassinations.

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RabidMongoose

 

20 mins onwards the MRF which was a covert British military unit given a license to kill IRA terrorists. They were instructed to seek out and identify who they were and terminate them using information from informants they had turned.

Edited by RabidMongoose
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RoofGardener
57 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

 

20 mins onwards the MRF which was a covert British military unit given a license to kill IRA terrorists. They were instructed to seek out and identify who they were and terminate them using information from informants they had turned.

I will find time to watch the video, RabidMongoose. However, I would note that this appears to be talking about the army.  (and their Military Intelligence branch) rather than the civilian Security Services.

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RoofGardener
3 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

Those are the ones that the general public know about, whats to say there isn't others?

They even hint there are others from time to time in the media. Remember the London Tube bombing? The news said an anti-terror special forces regiment the public dont know about had got involved.

Can we stop using the term special services too please, this isn't the US, we dont call them that here.

I haven't heard about that RabidMongoose. The term "regiment" sounds military. Was this an Army group ? Which media did you hear about it from ? 

The idea of a clandestine government "civilian" assassination organisation seems highly far-fetched. 

Edited by RoofGardener
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RoofGardener
2 hours ago, RAyMO said:

I don't think many, on either side of the fence in Northern Ireland would agree with your contention that MI5 NEVER EVER sanctioned assassinations.

Perhaps. But I suggest they would be wrong. 

There are people on "both sides of the fence" in Northern Ireland believe in Fairies. That doesn't mean that they exist. 

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