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Scudbuster

Religion........ and its Deep Roots of Fear

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Will Due
18 minutes ago, joc said:

The After Life

Why would anyone..past, present, future, conclude out of thin air that when one dies...one doesn't really.  How did we ever get to the point of thinking, believing, that when the body dies...there is a spirit that continues?

It had to have been attributable to fear of death.  Fear of death = After Life  I can see where ancients could have just speculated on such out of boredom, but as a belief system...which is Totally Religious...it necessarily does have its roots in fear...humans still fear death today...knowing that all living things die...billions are being spent on how to keep that from happening.  Fear of Death.

So what does Religion tell us about Death?  That if in life, if one does what God wants them to do, God will see fit to reward that one with Eternal Life.  But it also teaches that if one does not do what God wants one to do, if one even chooses not to believe in said God, that God will see fit to punish that one for all of Eternity in a Lake of Fire.  Fear of Death allows for a belief system of Eternal Life.  Fear of Eternal Death in Hell allows for a belief system of Controlled Actions by the Keepers of the Faith.  

At its core ....Religion is a fearful belief system.  Based on Fear.  Grown by Fear.  This isn't something anyone can really argue with.  All religious roads begin and end with fear.

Fear is the great mind killer...therefore...religion is the great mind killer.  

 

But what if the motivation for faith, which then leads to belief in the potential for being ressurected into an afterlife, is rooted in joy?

 

 

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psyche101
29 minutes ago, joc said:

The After Life

Why would anyone..past, present, future, conclude out of thin air that when one dies...one doesn't really.  How did we ever get to the point of thinking, believing, that when the body dies...there is a spirit that continues?

It had to have been attributable to fear of death.  Fear of death = After Life  I can see where ancients could have just speculated on such out of boredom, but as a belief system...which is Totally Religious...it necessarily does have its roots in fear...humans still fear death today...knowing that all living things die...billions are being spent on how to keep that from happening.  Fear of Death.

So what does Religion tell us about Death?  That if in life, if one does what God wants them to do, God will see fit to reward that one with Eternal Life.  But it also teaches that if one does not do what God wants one to do, if one even chooses not to believe in said God, that God will see fit to punish that one for all of Eternity in a Lake of Fire.  Fear of Death allows for a belief system of Eternal Life.  Fear of Eternal Death in Hell allows for a belief system of Controlled Actions by the Keepers of the Faith.  

At its core ....Religion is a fearful belief system.  Based on Fear.  Grown by Fear.  This isn't something anyone can really argue with.  All religious roads begin and end with fear.

Fear is the great mind killer...therefore...religion is the great mind killer.  

My understanding from various sources is....... 

Way way back when we were hunter gatherers we followed animals, much as predators follow herds of herbivores chased the seasons. When gramps dropped, there he went to rest and the others moved on. Grief was carried with them but with all the business of hunting down wooly mammoths and survival and such, it was short lived. 

When we settled into villages we became more stable. Then when gramps dropped, they had time to mourn the body. As decomposition sets in, bacteria settle in and those near the body got sick. They worked this out and figured it was a curse of some kind - bringing to life the idea that some 'part' of a person can survive death. The idea got popular and the ancient Egyptians fashioned it into a complete culture with things like the ancient book of the dead. Essentially written by soothsayers to keep from being made redundant, possibly killed. 

I can't cite sources, when my father passed I took this afterlife stuff quite seriously and looked pretty hard at it, I read a great many links, went to libraries and spoke to several people who claimed to have a clue, and that's what I came away with. Ancient Egypt seems to be the most influential source from what I could tell. 

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psyche101
22 minutes ago, Will Due said:

But what if the motivation for faith, which then leads to belief in the potential for being ressurected into an afterlife, is rooted in joy?

That still sounds like there's fear involved. Joy to be resurrected, but what if you don't make it? 

What if Westboro actually had it right and everyone else got it wrong? Or the Mormons, or JWs? 

There's a lot of gods to gamble with. 

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joc
1 hour ago, Will Due said:

 

But what if the motivation for faith, which then leads to belief in the potential for being ressurected into an afterlife, is rooted in joy?

 

 

If joy was the norm...it would be its own.  Joy is not the norm...suffering...hardship...death...that is the norm. That has always been the norm.  While there is joy in life, we created Gods to overcome the hardships...once it became settled in the mind...One God who is Alive like we are...then, it became a Joy ..aka  blessing...to Love the Lord...or a Curse....not to.   Either way...fear of the hardships...fear of not being blessed...ie...cursed.  The root is fear.  At the bottom of most if not all worries is fear.

 

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Habitat

You need a good holiday joc. 

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Hello Davros Kitty
On 10/15/2018 at 6:27 PM, Habitat said:

My own little stalker ! If you thought I had no cred, you would not bother, what does bother you, is that I might. But you need not be bothered by any of it. If you be a truth seeker, you ought be happy with the truth, whatever it might turn out to be.

Just now I saw another CL can smashed on the side of the road. The majority of cans are in the weeds not smashed.

Me, you, and Jordan Peterson know that something's up.

I feel so special. 

On 10/15/2018 at 10:02 PM, Guyver said:

Some no doubt, just like you and everyone else.

No. I'm all ears, but only hear bias.

On 10/15/2018 at 10:05 PM, Guyver said:

That’s an odd way to put it.  I can’t speak to what God actually did or did not do because I don’t know.  I can tell you what I think God did.  I think that God did what he did for a reason and everything that exists and all we experience is the result of that decision.

I had the God experience. All you have to do is really look inside the things that make sense. Then realise it doesn't. The last part is difficult for you.

On 10/15/2018 at 10:19 PM, joc said:

Faith?  I don't think so. I don't have faith that the leaves will fall from the trees soon.  There is Logic and Scientific fact that tell me for sure that will happen.

In the case of After Life...Logic and Scientific fact.  Logic says it doesn't happen.  Scientific fact says it doesn't happen.  What are you confusing with faith? 

you're like a citizen of Flatland. There's no "Up" because "What's up?".

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Habitat
8 minutes ago, Hello Davros Kitty said:

I feel so special. 

A special little stalker ?

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Will Due
22 minutes ago, joc said:

If joy was the norm...it would be its own.  Joy is not the norm...suffering...hardship...death...that is the norm. That has always been the norm.  While there is joy in life, we created Gods to overcome the hardships...once it became settled in the mind...One God who is Alive like we are...then, it became a Joy ..aka  blessing...to Love the Lord...or a Curse....not to.   Either way...fear of the hardships...fear of not being blessed...ie...cursed.  The root is fear.  At the bottom of most if not all worries is fear.

 

 

But worries are never a part of joy.

 

 

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Will Due
1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

That still sounds like there's fear involved. Joy to be resurrected, but what if you don't make it? 

What if Westboro actually had it right and everyone else got it wrong? Or the Mormons, or JWs? 

There's a lot of gods to gamble with. 

 

Joy comes from the knowledge that I am making it. Making my life abundant with joy and happiness. Without the worries and fear of anything. 

"Fear not."

 

 

Edited by Will Due

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joc
23 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

But worries are never a part of joy.

 

 

Can you explain to me what Joy means to you?

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joc
1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

That still sounds like there's fear involved. Joy to be resurrected, but what if you don't make it? 

What if Westboro actually had it right and everyone else got it wrong? Or the Mormons, or JWs? 

There's a lot of gods to gamble with. 

I'm not a history scholar but what you described sounds right. 

As far as the question of Westboro having it right and everyone else getting it wrong...

....within the Christian community there are differences.  The First Baptists believe for instance that if you except Jesus as Lord and Savior...you are then under an Umberella of Grace, because all of your sins, past, present, and future are forgiven forever...but in the First Methodist faith...you have to ask forgiveness every time you sin...so..if you die in your sin without asking forgiveness then you go to hell.  Meanwhile the Catholics say you must first ask forgiveness from a Priest. 

The point is, either:  one of the Faith's is the truth and the others are false...or all of them are false. Each obviously believe they are the truth.  I think the most reasonable conclusion is that they are all false...because at their core they all have one thing in common...

...the beliefs that:

1. A woman can become spontaneously pregnant. False

2. A person can come back to life with the same fully functioning body with all of the gore of violent death still in play.  False

3.  That upon death every person either goes to a place called Heaven where God lives or to Hell where Satan lives.  False

The afterlife is based on fear of death.  The acceptance of Jesus is based on fear of Hell.  The hope of Heaven is based on fear of death.

Way to many beliefs and gods to gamble on.  I will just put my cards on the table...a Royal Flush:

Truth, Logic, Reason, Knowledge, Wisdom

Pretty much an unbeatable hand.

 

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Will Due
43 minutes ago, joc said:

Can you explain to me what Joy means to you?

 

What it means to me is that fear has been removed from life.

This is occurring for me because of the certainty that comes from continuing on the path were fear is not a part that was shown me on the inside.

That doesn't mean I don't have trials and make errors along the way. But as I learn from them, they lessen and it gets easier. And the joy of being here grows.

 

 

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joc
5 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

What it means to me is that fear has been removed from life.

This is occurring for me because of the certainty that comes from continuing on the path were fear is not a part that was shown me on the inside.

That doesn't mean I don't have trials and make errors along the way. But as I learn from them, they lessen and it gets easier. And the joy of being here grows.

 

 

  Your joy doesn't really matter with regard to the origins of religion because you weren't there.  I am glad that you have joy in your life however.  And if you believe you are joyful because of your Creator...more power to you.  I have joy in my life as well...and none of it is associated with an Entity.  

The Church  at its best is worse than anything that I wish to be associated with.  I am fine with all believers believing....that being said...I think until we can all come to the affirmation of truth that all of that is a bunch of made up garbage that needs to go back into the dump heap...we will never evolve to our full human potential.

Edited by joc

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docyabut2
On ‎9‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 7:27 PM, Scudbuster said:

 

This short video defines it quite effectively - the pure fallacy of this "god": 

 

 

If anyone reads the story of Jesus in the Bible, he never says God is a fear or a death sentence. He says hell is.:o 

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psyche101
9 hours ago, joc said:

I'm not a history scholar but what you described sounds right. 

Seems reasonable at least I feel. 

9 hours ago, joc said:

As far as the question of Westboro having it right and everyone else getting it wrong...

....within the Christian community there are differences.  The First Baptists believe for instance that if you except Jesus as Lord and Savior...you are then under an Umberella of Grace, because all of your sins, past, present, and future are forgiven forever...but in the First Methodist faith...you have to ask forgiveness every time you sin...so..if you die in your sin without asking forgiveness then you go to hell.  Meanwhile the Catholics say you must first ask forgiveness from a Priest. 

The point is, either:  one of the Faith's is the truth and the others are false...or all of them are false. Each obviously believe they are the truth. 

I agree, I was more taking a devil's advocate approach. As you say, so many claim there is one god and yet so many ways of looking at that. I've often imagined how God would go if a fundamental Christian and a fundamental Muslim were to be judged at the same time. Pretty arkward for God I would think. 

But you said.........!!!!!!!! 

And then looking at extremes I feel offers some perspective. I really doubt those people consider such voilent aspects as related to their religion, yet the fundamental worshipers adhere to 'the word of god' according to the only source we have got that posits a Creator closer than those who just cherry pick the bible  which seems to be most modern outlooks today, being palmed of as spirituality. I feel the disparity outlines the ridiculous nature of the concept  but then again so many aspects do. 

9 hours ago, joc said:

I think the most reasonable conclusion is that they are all false...because at their core they all have one thing in common...

Without doubt. The closer one looks  the more unrealistic the entire idea is. 

9 hours ago, joc said:

...the beliefs that:

1. A woman can become spontaneously pregnant. False

And

There s nothing miraculous about a pregnant teenager. Still happens everyday. 

9 hours ago, joc said:

2. A person can come back to life with the same fully functioning body with all of the gore of violent death still in play.  False

3.  That upon death every person either goes to a place called Heaven where God lives or to Hell where Satan lives.  False

The afterlife is based on fear of death.  The acceptance of Jesus is based on fear of Hell.  The hope of Heaven is based on fear of death.

Way to many beliefs and gods to gamble on.  I will just put my cards on the table...a Royal Flush:

Truth, Logic, Reason, Knowledge, Wisdom

Pretty much an unbeatable hand.

 

As Sean Carroll says, we would have to dismiss what we have discovered and confirmed on the basis of no evidence whatsoever. I too am not prepared to take that very illogical step. 

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psyche101
10 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

What it means to me is that fear has been removed from life.

This is occurring for me because of the certainty that comes from continuing on the path were fear is not a part that was shown me on the inside.

That doesn't mean I don't have trials and make errors along the way. But as I learn from them, they lessen and it gets easier. And the joy of being here grows.

 

 

So your getting somthing you want, something personal from it. 

That's taking isn't it Will? 

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