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Scudbuster

Religion........ and its Deep Roots of Fear

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Will Due
17 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

In the context of spirituality and religion, truth does not exist.

 

Are you sure?

It's been my experience that without spirituality and religion, it's practically impossible to know what's true about reality.

 

 

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XenoFish
16 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Are you sure?

It's been my experience that without spirituality and religion, it's practically impossible to know what's true about reality.

 

 

You look through the lens of your beliefs. Seeing only that which you deem to be true. It is nothing more than a subjective vantage point.

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MERRY DMAS
22 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

If you're still searching and truly thinking critically, then you would have to be open to the reality that thinking, is much more than what you think.

When people stop believing/pushing scrupulous so called evidences, then we can get to what's potentially credible. That's not going to happen anytime soon.

Here's something that might be up your alley?

http://garagesalemusic.com

9am-12pm est Sundays.

uncle-floyd.jpg

21 hours ago, Nostrodumbass said:

Yes, but please don't generalize and think that everyone who experiences the spirit arrived there by being uncritical, and because it feels good. Some have arrived there by being especially critical and bearing a heavy cross and still bear it daily. Some of those might even say that being atheist or the like is an "easy out".

Yes they have. We are prone to biases. 

Go on and dazzle us with your imaginationist dribble that gets us nowhere. 

Good, and evil are just labels yet you put mystical attributes to them. Some people act like animals while others don't. There's solid evidence for why this is, and blaming them on ancient superstitious beliefs brings us backwards. 

How not believing in fantasies is an "easy out" is madness. 

4 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Did you ever read the comments on that link? It completely validates the article.

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MERRY DMAS
25 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Are you sure?

It's been my experience that without spirituality and religion, it's practically impossible to know what's true about reality.

233591413.jpg

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Guyver
1 hour ago, joc said:

Like I said it can be difficult to wade through the BS.  The truth is that you are still wading my friend.

OK....well there you have it.  That pretty much means nothing.

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Guyver
23 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You look through the lens of your beliefs. Seeing only that which you deem to be true. It is nothing more than a subjective vantage point.

Everyone does that.  There is no other way.

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XenoFish
8 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Everyone does that.  There is no other way.

If all of us put our hands into a fire, we would know that the fire is real. Feeling the heat, the burning of out flesh. That fire exist, but in the framework of religious/spiritual beliefs, it's imaginary. You nor I can prove or disprove an imaginary fire. It is only "true/real" to the individual. My problem is when religious individuals god is real. 

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Rlyeh
On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 11:55 PM, Nostrodumbass said:

Do not mistake me for someone who thinks the Bible is not full of the concepts of people. In fact it is part of the point of my post.

Is it a mistake to say you cherry pick the Bible like every other believer does?

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Rlyeh
1 hour ago, Will Due said:

 

Are you sure?

It's been my experience that without spirituality and religion, it's practically impossible to know what's true about reality.

Spirituality certainly hasn't helped you when it comes to objective truth.

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Will Due
55 minutes ago, Hello Davros Kitty said:

When people stop believing/pushing scrupulous so called evidences, then we can get to what's potentially credible. That's not going to happen anytime soon.

 

Yes, it won't happen anytime soon if the subjective evidences of true personal spiritual experience is not allowed to critically supersede all of the other objective evidences to the contrary.

 

 

Edited by Will Due

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XenoFish
11 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Yes, it won't happen anytime soon if the subjective evidences of true personal spiritual experience is not allowed to critically supersede all of the other objective evidences to the contrary.

 

 

need-some-dressing.jpg

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Liquid Gardens
17 hours ago, Nostrodumbass said:

The cross of living in and searching for spirit and truth without reward in a world where some 'just believe' and get their dopamine shots, and others just say there is no God because there is no proof and get their dopamine shots.

That doesn't sound like a 'cross' at all, let alone a heavy one.  There's lots of evidence for the former from the statements of theists ('I was filled with an overwhelming sense of peace', 'believing in something greater than myself helps me deal with life's downs') who are getting their 'dopamine shots' but not much for the latter.  I think you'll find a lot more theists who say that their beliefs make them feel good or comfortable compared to atheists.

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XenoFish
3 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

That doesn't sound like a 'cross' at all, let alone a heavy one.  There's lots of evidence for the former from the statements of theists ('I was filled with an overwhelming sense of peace', 'believing in something greater than myself helps me deal with life's downs') who are getting their 'dopamine shots' but not much for the latter.  I think you'll find a lot more theists who say that their beliefs make them feel good or comfortable compared to atheists.

Atheism brings its own existential crisis, since there is no security net in regards to an afterlife. 

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Will Due
16 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Atheism brings its own existential crisis, since there is no security net in regards to an afterlife. 

 

But if the "daily responsibility" of the business of seeking and doing the will of God is adhered to, then the security and assurance of eternal will exist instead.

 

 

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XenoFish
6 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

But if the "daily responsibility" of the business of seeking and doing the will of God is adhered to, then the security and assurance of eternal will exist instead.

 

 

So.....god is so lazy that I have to do the work for him? God, you're fired. 

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Will Due
6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

So.....god is so lazy that I have to do the work for him? 

 

No.

A person can do the work of doing his will with him. Which is a very easy burden to bear and lightens up life.

 

 

Edited by Will Due

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Guyver
2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

In the context of spirituality and religion, truth does not exist.

In what context do you consider truth to exist?

I've always considered mathematics the purest of the sciences.  Truth can be demonstrated there.  For example, if you happen to be familiar with the Cartesian Coordinate System, you can prove many things.  Y = MX + B.  This is truth and can be demonstrated.  You can find the slope of a line, etc. and so forth.  The problem is that truth in this sense is only actually true in two dimensions.  But, we don't live in a world of two dimensions, so this "truth" is practically meaningless.  I mean, it's great food for the brain and so forth......but it doesn't explain the universe. 

What it does allow us to do is consider the exponential leap that occurs when describing a world of two dimensions, in comparison to that of a three dimensional world.  In a world of two dimensions, the sum of all angles of a triangle always equal 180 degrees.  This truth is not truth in three dimensions.  The sum of angles of a triangle can exceed 180 degrees in spherical geometry, and they do.  That means that truth is dependent upon the observer.  What we think we know about the world can be shown to be an incomplete picture.....therefore.....not actual truth.  Mathematical proofs exist showing physical reality in greater than three dimensions.  

That's why I asked Joc about it.  But whatever......who cares?  I agree with the OP in general......religion or "God concept" can be viewed as a construct of fear.  Religion certainly is. Yet, it seems quite logical for me to understand that the existence of God has nothing to do with people's religion, superstitions, or fear.  Therefore, the reality of this is a separate issue.  

You claim that God exists only as a construct of human thought - and that statement is not only completely not knowable, but it's illogical.....IMHO.  FWIW.  

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XenoFish
8 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

No.

A person can do the work of doing his will with him. Which is a very easy burden to bear and lightens up life.

 

 

Thanks for supporting those studies I read. 

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Will Due
4 minutes ago, Guyver said:

In what context do you consider truth to exist?

I've always considered mathematics the purest of the sciences.  Truth can be demonstrated there.  For example, if you happen to be familiar with the Cartesian Coordinate System, you can prove many things.  Y = MX + B.  This is truth and can be demonstrated.  You can find the slope of a line, etc. and so forth.  The problem is that truth in this sense is only actually true in two dimensions.  But, we don't live in a world of two dimensions, so this "truth" is practically meaningless.  I mean, it's great food for the brain and so forth......but it doesn't explain the universe. 

What it does allow us to do is consider the exponential leap that occurs when describing a world of two dimensions, in comparison to that of a three dimensional world.  In a world of two dimensions, the sum of all angles of a triangle always equal 180 degrees.  This truth is not truth in three dimensions.  The sum of angles of a triangle can exceed 180 degrees in spherical geometry, and they do.  That means that truth is dependent upon the observer.  What we think we know about the world can be shown to be an incomplete picture.....therefore.....not actual truth.  Mathematical proofs exist showing physical reality in greater than three dimensions.  

That's why I asked Joc about it.  But whatever......who cares?  I agree with the OP in general......religion or "God concept" can be viewed as a construct of fear.  Religion certainly is. Yet, it seems quite logical for me to understand that the existence of God has nothing to do with people's religion, superstitions, or fear.  Therefore, the reality of this is a separate issue.  

You claim that God exists only as a construct of human thought - and that statement is not only completely not knowable, but it's illogical.....IMHO.  FWIW.  

 

Guyver,

The Cartesian Coordinate System consists of three dimensions. X, Y and Z.

Width, height and depth, right?

 

 

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Guyver
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

If all of us put our hands into a fire, we would know that the fire is real. Feeling the heat, the burning of out flesh. That fire exist, but in the framework of religious/spiritual beliefs, it's imaginary. You nor I can prove or disprove an imaginary fire. It is only "true/real" to the individual. My problem is when religious individuals god is real. 

Yes, the vast majority of us will agree that fire is hot.  What is your opinion of people who walk on fire?  Do you accept that some people actually walk on burning coals, or is it a hoax?

Anyway.....regarding your point.  Since it is entirely possible that we don't see or understand reality as it really is, but rather our own constrained interpretation of that part which we can experience......to even define "God" or understand it is beyond our capability.  It is possible that reality actually exists in 8 dimensions but our limited nature does not allow us to "see" it.  Therefore, what we call God or think God is....may be that.....or it may be something else.  It could very well be that the universe itself functions in the capacity of what people believe "God" is, but we don't have the ability to know it.  

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XenoFish
7 minutes ago, Guyver said:

You claim that God exists only as a construct of human thought - and that statement is not only completely not knowable, but it's illogical.....IMHO.  FWIW.  

Without the concept of God, god wouldn't exist. 

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Guyver
1 minute ago, Will Due said:

 

Guyver,

The Cartesian Coordinate System consists of three dimensions. X, Y and Z.

Width, height and depth, right?

 

 

No.  Just X and Y.  

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XenoFish
2 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Yes, the vast majority of us will agree that fire is hot.  What is your opinion of people who walk on fire?  Do you accept that some people actually walk on burning coals, or is it a hoax?

Anyway.....regarding your point.  Since it is entirely possible that we don't see or understand reality as it really is, but rather our own constrained interpretation of that part which we can experience......to even define "God" or understand it is beyond our capability.  It is possible that reality actually exists in 8 dimensions but our limited nature does not allow us to "see" it.  Therefore, what we call God or think God is....may be that.....or it may be something else.  It could very well be that the universe itself functions in the capacity of what people believe "God" is, but we don't have the ability to know it.  

Then why bother filling in the blanks with God? Doing God's will is really doing one's own will, based on their own desires or the desires of a collective. Which is why religions are cults.

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Guyver
2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Without the concept of God, god wouldn't exist. 

BS.  That statement is not knowable, therefore not true.  

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