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Scudbuster

Religion........ and its Deep Roots of Fear

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Habitat
3 hours ago, Hello Davros Kitty said:

You're sick so I will excuse this brain fart.

Getting a little desperate ? There may be some good excuses for your obsession, but you do over-reach on a fairly regular basis. It is the kind of sentiment portrayed in that quoted comment, that betrays just how weak your argumentation is. 

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XenoFish
46 minutes ago, Guyver said:

But I am going to speak the truth as I understand it.  

You're truth is not everyone's truth. Same goes for every other believer out there. It's not even truth, it's a belief. If you want to believe that god rides a unicorn that farts rainbows fine by me. 

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XenoFish
48 minutes ago, Guyver said:

You come in here with pithy one-liners and don't even want to take the time to research the positions I present.  Then, when I attempt to explain my position to you......you criticize my explanation.  

Truth is. I don't give a damn. I've seen the same song and dance for years now. None of this is really new to me. I've had my go-round on this same position on different forums. It's all fill-in-the-blank. You believe in god, I don't care. Why in the hell did you bring higher dimensions into this is beyond me. 

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Habitat
2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You're truth is not everyone's truth. Same goes for every other believer out there. It's not even truth, it's a belief. If you want to believe that god rides a unicorn that farts rainbows fine by me. 

 

Just now, XenoFish said:

I don't care.

You don't care ? With a post count of 26,000, you certainly do care (not to mention the "different forums". You, sir, are very heavily invested ! When you work out why, you won't be.

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, Habitat said:

 

You don't care ? With a post count of 26,000, you certainly do care (not to mention the "different forums". You, sir, are very heavily invested ! When you work out why, you won't be.

No I don't care. Not as much as some of you think. Most of the time this is boring to me. Y'all like to throw my post count into this. Most of that came from Last Post Wins. But hey, never mind that. Maybe one day in one of these thread something new and interesting will pop up, I doubt it. Same way I doubt that you and Will can answer a question. 

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Will do

 

It's because of the validity of my personal spiritual experiences (supremely subjective as they are), that I honestly cannot say that I believe IN God.

And that's because the simple truth is, I just believe Him.

 

 

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Habitat
24 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

No I don't care. Not as much as some of you think. Most of the time this is boring to me. Y'all like to throw my post count into this. Most of that came from Last Post Wins. But hey, never mind that. Maybe one day in one of these thread something new and interesting will pop up, I doubt it. Same way I doubt that you and Will can answer a question. 

I think some interesting perspectives do appear, from time to time. Everyone has a personal narrative, I think it far more interesting to hear those, than people parroting dogma, whatever it promotes. People should bring whatever religiosity they have, out of themselves, not outsource it from without. It is a part of maturing to the point of having psychological autonomy, which is every bit as important any other kind of independence. I cringe at  people who describe a "significant other", as their "everything". It is as  unimpressive as people who build their world around their "faith". What a bore, are people who are nothing without their "crutch". I do understand why people get peeved by the unrelenting, overtly "religious".

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Davros of Skaro
2 hours ago, Guyver said:

As I said, I checked out the links.  So, to be more clear for you.....I watched the video and read your OP.  In this case, your high doubt was misplaced.  It doesn't prove that Abraham's God was a myth.  

So you watched one video of a multivideo playlist, and read just the first post of a multipost thread with many links? Nice jump to conclusions if so.

now are you moving the goal posts by narrowing it down to God that specifically spoke to Abraham? I doubt this is what you mean.

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The bible is a collection of ancient writings, God is considered to be the Supreme Being, the maker of the universe.  How you consider faulty or improbable information found in the first of a collection of ancient writings to be proof that God doesn't exist is beyond me. 

It's held up as the infallible word of God, but being fallible from the get go shows it's not inspired from a God. What's so hard in comprehending this unless an emotional stake is at hand?

The beginning is not the only evidences of myth making.

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Or, maybe we're arguing semantics now.  Abraham called God the Judge of All the Earth, and Genesis claims God is the maker of the universe.  If you're attempting to prove that the God spoken of in the pages of the bible is a myth, then you can certainly make an argument for that case. 

The Bible reflects the mindsets of it's very human writers.

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But to use the bible text as a basis for disproving the existence of the actual Supreme Being is what I was calling fallacious.  If that's not what you were doing, then I take it back.  

The "actual supreme being" is a presuppositional declaration on your part through subjective experience. 

I'm talking about the OT God.

Is the OT God, and the "actual supreme being" the same deity to you?

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When you use the term "ancient goat herders" you express your acculturation from this place that you gained from other posters here of a mindset similar to your own.  That identifies the same kind of cognitive bias that you criticize theists of having. 

This is an actual historical reference to the originators of OT stories. They were writing propaganda to unite loose tribes of nomadic Goat herders to solidify a race to better fend off attacks from enemies. 

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The same neuromotor rewards that apply to your position directed at theist thought addiction applies to you and other people who post here.  You post here because you get a rush out of it and some intrinsic reward that activates the same centers illustrated in the video you provided.  

YES! YES! YES! I have admitted many times that this is in part of my motivation for my antitheism. The difference is I do not attribute it to paranormal contact.

Watch the rest of the Youtube playlist... It's my channel. I created it.

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I am sick, but that was no brain fart.  The bible's description of God in one sense as supreme being is the Maker of All Things.  That's the same concept of God that many people have, myself included - who are not necessarily bible believers.  Disproving.....or rather.....finding fault with the bible does not disprove the Creator of the Universe if in fact one does exist.  It would be a brain fart to think it does....because the two are not the same.  

Ok then. The Bible's God is a myth? Right?

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The bible exists, so there is no disproving it.  If you'd like to point out that modern day understanding is in conflict with stories from the bible....then that's just nifty.  However, if you are ever able to "disprove" the bible.....then what you have done is disproven the bible.....NOT proven that God is a myth.  

Oh... Thanks.

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I'm glad to hear that you're somewhat familiar with the concepts, but the video I posted discusses new discoveries in the field of mathematics that Carl Sagan had no knowledge of.  In any event, I'm not supporting holding on to any superstitions, nor do I consider myself a superstitious person.  So, I think this is misdirected, though I understand the criticism.  I think I hear you saying that even if multidimensionalism can be proven to be a real thing (which it has BTW), then there's no reason to make the leap to God from that position.  I do agree and accept this criticism as being valid.  Yet, I have reasons for doing so; just as you have reasons for doing what you do.  

Michio Kaku is no slouch.

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Habitat
5 hours ago, joc said:

The truth is that the faulty beliefs are not true.

Keep it coming, Joc, I couldn't dream this kind of stuff up, but you do have this talent !

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Davros of Skaro
44 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Getting a little desperate ? There may be some good excuses for your obsession, but you do over-reach on a fairly regular basis. It is the kind of sentiment portrayed in that quoted comment, that betrays just how weak your argumentation is. 

He's physically ill. I'm not talking about his psychology. 

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Habitat
7 hours ago, Hello Davros Kitty said:

Check out fully the links I provided, and then wait for my next post on the subject.

Yessir ! We, and the whole world, await the "proof" that "God" does not exist. I want to see you on TV, the man who "killed off" God ! You don't think you lapse occasionally into delusions of grandeur ?

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Habitat
6 minutes ago, Hello Davros Kitty said:

He's physically ill. I'm not talking about his psychology. 

He must do his best work when physically ill . But, apologies for my wrong assumption.

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Davros of Skaro
Just now, Habitat said:

Yessir ! We, and the whole world, await the "proof" that "God" does not exist. I want to see you on TV, the man who "killed off" God ! You don't think you lapse occasionally into delusions of grandeur ?

Why yes! All the who's who in the atheist community will be beating down my door. People like you will be sending me heartfelt thanks for freeing them from the delusions that was ruining their lives. 

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Davros of Skaro
1 minute ago, Habitat said:

He must do his best work when physically ill . But, apologies for my wrong assumption.

Sick, bored, and miffed for not being able to play golf mind you.

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Guyver

 

17 minutes ago, Hello Davros Kitty said:

So you watched one video of a multivideo playlist, and read just the first post of a multipost thread with many links? Nice jump to conclusions if so.

now are you moving the goal posts by narrowing it down to God that specifically spoke to Abraham? I doubt this is what you mean.

I don't believe that the God I believe in spoke to Abraham the way the bible tells it no.  I don't believe that God would ask a person to murder their own child in sacrifice.

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It's held up as the infallible word of God, but being fallible from the get go shows it's not inspired from a God. What's so hard in comprehending this unless an emotional stake is at hand?

The beginning is not the only evidences of myth making.

The Bible reflects the mindsets of it's very human writers.

 

I agree with you and have no issue with that.  I was simply objecting to the notion you offered that you could prove God was a myth.  I think we've cleared it up - you are referring to the stories about God in the bible, and not necessarily the actual God - if one exists.  

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The "actual supreme being" is a presuppositional declaration on your part through subjective experience. 

Right, but we have to have some frame of reference for communication.  

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I'm talking about the OT God.

Is the OT God, and the "actual supreme being" the same deity to you?

 

No.  I get your point.  Maybe we just had a misunderstanding?

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Ok then. The Bible's God is a myth? Right?

Hard one for me to answer.  Yes and no.  I agree with you that the bible does not present the God I believe in.  But, it's been edited so many times and changed, who knows what the original accounts actually were?  I don't know but I would say you could be right on that one.  

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Oh... Thanks.

Welcome.

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Michio Kaku is no slouch.

Agree.  

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Habitat
16 minutes ago, Hello Davros Kitty said:

Why yes! All the who's who in the atheist community will be beating down my door. People like you will be sending me heartfelt thanks for freeing them from the delusions that was ruining their lives. 

The sort of people whose lives are ruined by religious delusions, might get into similar trouble, without them. It really is a matter of their locus of responsibility in life, being externalised, when it should be moving in direction of being internalised. Some people go into a blue funk when a romantic partner proves a disappointment, it will usually be seen as a failing of that other party, when in reality, to be so let down, is the result of placing the responsibility for your happiness or mental equilibrium, on another, not yourself. Retail religion caters to immaturity, "real religion", only comes with the very opposite. Don't look to external agencies for what you can get out of them, psychologically ( like the person  who looks for their "soul mate", the one "who completes them" ( *feeling nauseous here* ), look to your own inner resources, because they are certainly there, and that is the true faith, that one must have.

Edited by Habitat
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Davros of Skaro

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XenoFish
2 hours ago, Guyver said:

I know this because of personal experience.

If I didn't question my personal experiences I'd still be just another magical thinker. 

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Scudbuster
52 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

It's because of the validity of my personal spiritual experiences (supremely subjective as they are), that I honestly cannot say that I believe IN God.

And that's because the simple truth is, I just believe Him.

 

 

That's because Will,"him" is just really.......................you.

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Habitat

What are drug users doing, davros, chasing the dopamine kick ? I don't  see you railing against that. In the end, there are many "dodges" people employ to counter psychological distress, but the distress is often really the psyche spurring you to abandon immature attitudes and delusions, and that usually involve a movement away from the egotistical. Drugs and alcohol, just hold the line against that movement.

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Habitat
4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

If I didn't question my personal experiences I'd still be just another magical thinker. 

He may well have questioned his personal experiences with greater rigor than you imagine, and was left with no other reasonable choice, but to accept it as real. As many do.

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, Habitat said:

He may well have questioned his personal experiences with greater rigor than you imagine, and was left with no other reasonable choice, but to accept it as real. As many do.

Highly doubt it. You do it enough and you come to either one of two conclusions, "I don't know" or an explanation. Never assume it's an actual spiritual experience.

People with religious OCD strongly believe in and fear punishment from a divine being or deity. Experts estimate that anywhere between 5% and 33% of people with OCD may experience scrupulosity and the number likely rises to between 50% and 60% in OCD sufferers who come from within very strict religious cultures. Even people who are not particularly religious can suffer from scrupulosity because they worry about being morally compromised or unintentionally offending others. A common thread throughout the spectrum is the linking of thoughts and actions: people with scrupulosity believe their thoughts are the same as actions, so they worry not just about what they have done, but also about what they have thought.

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Habitat
7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

A common thread throughout the spectrum is the linking of thoughts and actions: people with scrupulosity believe their thoughts are the same as actions, so they worry not just about what they have done, but also about what they have thought.

That is laughable, of course thoughts and actions are "linked', the latter rarely don't follow the former ! A person would be wise to reflect on their thought impulses, as most people who are in jails, would not be there without them, except they allowed them to lead to actions. And who can say, they always have control over impulses, in extreme circumstances, most of us, potentially. can "lose it" (self control)

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XenoFish
6 minutes ago, Habitat said:

That is laughable, of course thoughts and actions are "linked', the latter rarely don't follow the former ! A person would be wise to reflect on their thought impulses, as most people who are in jails, would not be there without them, except they allowed them to lead to actions. And who can say, they always have control over impulses, in extreme circumstances, most of us, potentially. can "lose it" (self control)

Yeah you definitely missed the point. 

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Habitat

Don't think I missed the point, psychologically speaking you ought to be as concerned about ideation, as action. Plenty of, for example, pedophiles, are languishing in jails because they are deemed too great a risk of re-offending. because they are assessed as still having the ideation. From the point of view that fear of jail is the only thing preventing you, thought impulses are as damning as action, in terms of your mentality. Your internal "judge" would have to convict you, if you'd like to kill someone, but don't, only because it would wreck your own life. The person who only worries about external judges, probably isn't much different if it is an "eternal" judge, on a temporal one, they worry about. The true religious would be worried about the internal judge, because it seems they are conflicted. The conscientious want to resolve their inner conflicts.

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