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Scudbuster

Religion........ and its Deep Roots of Fear

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Guyver
2 hours ago, joc said:

I don't believe her story is valid.   okay...now what...I need to wait for a ghost to yank my sheets off.  It happens regularly..and it ain't know ghost.  That's just gullibility on your part...not a convincing anecdote.

I know, that’s my point.  Most people don’t believe the story, and generally I wouldn’t either.  But the people who have had the experience do believe it.  One may argue that it’s only real because it’s happeni in their own minds.  But since I myself have had experiences that I attribute to something besides my own mind, and because I know the kind of people these folks are, and because I got the back story and observed the reactions of the people telling the story, I accept it.  It’s fine if no one else does or no one cares.  Doesn’t bother me a bit.  I have more pressing matters, like getting through another day of work which is something I find displeasing.  So, peace be with you all and I’ll talk to you another time.

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DieChecker
On 11/4/2018 at 5:29 AM, Truthseeker007 said:

So how is it possible this man Jesus died and that somehow covers all humans sins and for what purpose? Why are humans still evil and still sinning and what good did it do if this story were to be true?

The whole thing is dependent on one thing. If God is real. If we assume God is real, and we assume Jesus existed. Then we have to accept that Jesus died for the supernatural reason of saving humanity.

Before Jesus, all the Hebrews had to go to the Temple and perform sacrifices (usually items or animals) in order to buy off their sins. Jesus's death eliminated  that requirement. Sin only needed to be admitted and rejected to make the person clean. 

That humans are evil still is because we are humans. We can only attempt to be perfect. No one can actually pull that off. However, living a Christian life usually means having Less to repent of, and usually means a better life for yourself and those around you.

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XenoFish

Perfection does not exist.

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DieChecker
On 11/4/2018 at 7:07 AM, Rlyeh said:

A grenade thrown by God himself. Pretty low when you've got to convince people of an imaginary danger.

Depends.

If it was an imaginary man defeating an imaginary danger... so what?

If it was a real man defeating a real danger... We all should pay attention.

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DieChecker
8 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Perfection does not exist.

Depends on if you are the one defining perfection. :tu:

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DieChecker
On 11/4/2018 at 11:07 AM, Truthseeker007 said:

Ummm most of the people in the US claim they are Christians so ofc the charities are going to be funded by Christians.

images.jpg

Regardless... You asked for good from religion and I showed you some.

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Doug1029
13 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Before Jesus, all the Hebrews had to go to the Temple and perform sacrifices (usually items or animals) in order to buy off their sins. Jesus's death eliminated  that requirement.

Oh.  Good.  Now I don't have to go to church.

Doug

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DieChecker
On 11/4/2018 at 7:13 AM, Rlyeh said:

Many atheists are agnostic.

How can someone who is atheist (There is nothing divine. No god(s).), also be someone who says, "Maybe"? That is like saying you are 100% sure you have fathered no children, and then saying, "Uhhh... though maybe...".

You can't be 100% sure, and unsure at the same time.

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Doug1029
On 11/4/2018 at 1:07 PM, Truthseeker007 said:

Ummm most of the people in the US claim they are Christians so ofc the charities are going to be funded by Christians.

images.jpg

A hefty portion of that charity money gets spent on church buildings and the like and does not actually go into doing God's work.  Just self-aggrandizement - look how holy I am.

Doug

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DieChecker
4 minutes ago, Doug1o29 said:

Oh.  Good.  Now I don't have to go to church.

Doug

Don't go if you don't want to, but you'd be missing out on the opportunity to discuss politics, religion, and family....

Uhhhh... on second thought.... :unsure: :P

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Doug1029
2 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

How can someone who is atheist (There is nothing divine. No god(s).), also be someone who says, "Maybe"? That is like saying you are 100% sure you have fathered no children, and then saying, "Uhhh... though maybe...".

You can't be 100% sure, and unsure at the same time.

I think you're splitting hairs here.  In practice, there is little difference between not knowing and not believing.

Doug

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DieChecker
Just now, Doug1o29 said:

A hefty portion of that charity money gets spent on church buildings and the like and does not actually go into doing God's work.  Just self-aggrandizement - look how holy I am.

Doug

Some does surely. But drive around any small town and look at the churches.... Most are pretty shabby and run down. Most Christian leaders aren't in it for the money.

I've read that many of the better Christian organizations give 90-95% of what they get to the actual end recipient. 

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Doug1029
1 minute ago, DieChecker said:

Don't go if you don't want to, but you'd be missing out on the opportunity to discuss politics, religion, and family....

Uhhhh... on second thought.... :unsure: :P

I KNEW churches were political organizations.

Doug

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DieChecker
Just now, Doug1o29 said:

I think you're splitting hairs here.  In practice, there is little difference between not knowing and not believing.

Doug

I think it is a real hair. Calling yourself an atheist is saying that... The Divine Supernatural... does not exist. And then following it up with, "Maybe" should then mean you are not a atheist, as you are leaving room for doubt.

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DieChecker
3 minutes ago, Doug1o29 said:

I KNEW churches were political organizations.

Doug

:o As long as the Pastor/Minister/Priest isn't saying anything... That would be illegal, and the church could loose its tax exemption. 

Doesn't mean the parishioners can't talk about whatever they want. ;)

Edited by DieChecker

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Doug1029
Just now, DieChecker said:

Some does surely. But drive around any small town and look at the churches.... Most are pretty shabby and run down. Most Christian leaders aren't in it for the money.

I've read that many of the better Christian organizations give 90-95% of what they get to the actual end recipient. 

I know a few people who do Christian work because they truly believe.  I respect and admire those people.

I once went to a meeting of the Ohio Synod (Presbyterian Church).  There was one person there who was trying to get help for some service work he was doing.  The rest were mostly interested in how to make themselves a good retirement.  They did not want to be churchmen, but there was nothing else they were qualified to do that would pay as well.

I may be broke, but at least I'm having a good time.

Doug

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Doug1029
2 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

:o As long as the Pastor/Minister/Priest isn't saying anything... That would be illegal, and the church could loose its tax exemption. 

Doesn't mean the parishioners can't talk about whatever they want. ;)

But these days, a lot of those preachers ARE political and endorse candidates and propositions from the pulpit - and then they claim they should still be tax-exempt.

Doug

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XenoFish
25 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Depends on if you are the one defining perfection. :tu:

A perfect god can not create something imperfect. It would have no concept of imperfection, nor would it need anything, nothing could be added or removed from it. True perfection is total completeness. Nothing more, nothing less. Just is.

So the idea of a god meddling in human affairs, giving human rules, embodying itself in a mortal body is flawed. We have gods and deities created by man to represent forces of nature, human desires and wishes. Used as a tool of governance. Myths as about demi-god like individuals. Most of those stories are to illustrate points.

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danydandan
35 minutes ago, Doug1o29 said:

Oh.  Good.  Now I don't have to go to church.

Doug

He did say do not worship God in Temple's of stone.

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Habitat
10 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

True perfection is total completeness.

Words are just words, and if all humanity were to die out, would not have any meaning, as they only have meaning  as humans assign it. "Completeness" is a word, and only means what people understand it to mean, your idea of what is complete may be different to someone else's, and there is nothing to say you are right, and they are wrong. So using your idea of "completeness" to anchor what some undefined God is or isn't, is just you thinking you are that God !

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XenoFish
37 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

How can someone who is atheist (There is nothing divine. No god(s).), also be someone who says, "Maybe"? That is like saying you are 100% sure you have fathered no children, and then saying, "Uhhh... though maybe...".

You can't be 100% sure, and unsure at the same time.

Depends on what we mean by "divine" as if it's some feeling force or god then I say not likely, at least not in any human concept of such a thing. If we mean divine in some emotional context then many things can be divine. Like putting an axe through someone's head after 15 cups of coffee. (it's a joke related to another thread).

But to be sorta serious, it's the emotional content and meaning we put behind things that give them value. Feeling a sense of awe at a streak of good fortune might feel divine. It really depends on the individual. Like looking up at a clear night sky and seeing the stars gives me a sense of awe, which if I was spiritual might be a divine sensation. 

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joc
8 hours ago, Guyver said:

I know, that’s my point.  Most people don’t believe the story, and generally I wouldn’t either.  But the people who have had the experience do believe it.  One may argue that it’s only real because it’s happeni in their own minds.  But since I myself have had experiences that I attribute to something besides my own mind, and because I know the kind of people these folks are, and because I got the back story and observed the reactions of the people telling the story, I accept it.  It’s fine if no one else does or no one cares.  Doesn’t bother me a bit.  I have more pressing matters, like getting through another day of work which is something I find displeasing.  So, peace be with you all and I’ll talk to you another time.

All I am really saying is that the only way you could know for certain in your own mind about the bed sheet thing was if you had been there in the room, which was probably dark anyway...and saw with your own two eyes the bed sheets come flying off.  How did she even see it, she was under them probably asleep...I don't really care about the details because...I know...because I am a realist with the truth...that a ghost didn't do it.  I know that because...there aren't any ghosts.

The truth is easy that way.   

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Habitat
5 minutes ago, joc said:

..I don't really care about the details because...I know...because I am a realist with the truth...that a ghost didn't do it.  I know that because...there aren't any ghosts.

Your omniscience continues to impress "the team" joc, I see many "likes" coming your way, but realistically the real answer is, you just don't know. And why even care ? But what is annoying, is that the poltergeist can't seem to do the housework or something useful.

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Jon the frog

Trump........ and its Deep Roots of Fear

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joc
37 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Your omniscience continues to impress "the team" joc, I see many "likes" coming your way, but realistically the real answer is, you just don't know. And why even care ? But what is annoying, is that the poltergeist can't seem to do the housework or something useful.

God your a hateful old buggar.   Go feed the pigeons man and leave me alone.  I already beat your ass...you admitted...nothing more to say or see here...move along...the pigeons are...

 

....that way  5be2244c33bda_download(1).jpg.89d131980af03bd58ec9533406eaf546.jpg

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