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Scudbuster

Religion........ and its Deep Roots of Fear

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Habitat
5 minutes ago, Hello Davros Kitty said:

You only prove to be a clueless individual with their head in the sand.

I regularly give you credit for trying to make sense of things, and then you say nasty things to me ! LOL...But, all good, that just tells me you are a genuine seeker, not one of those horrid atheists ( there aren't any here) who really do believe they have it all worked out, that really is a very dark place to arrive at, and I don't believe you are headed there. But certainly not back to the fold of the church either, I can't recommend that.

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Rlyeh
5 hours ago, White-Coyote said:

Ok, go ahead. Heard a few people claim they can prove it, haven't seen it yet though.

You've got a god that developed from Semite polytheism and doesn't have a clue how he created anything, but he's still real. At what point do you stop with the mental gymnastics in defending such asinine concepts?

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joc
8 hours ago, Guyver said:

Well no, that’s actually not truth.  That’s called opinion.  The difference between truth and opinion is that one can be validated with facts.  The fact is that you don’t know if any gods exist or not.  You think they don’t.  But thinking a thing and knowing a thing are two different things.  

The difference is not between thinking and knowing, it is between belief and actual truth.

Johnny married Suzy.  They were newlyweds and so in love.  They had a fight.  In a burst of emotion, Suzy ran out of the house slamming her face into the open door.  Her eye bruised immediately.  She went to her best friends party.  Having never said what actually happened.  Everyone at the party believed her husband had assaulted her.  Many left the party never knowing what happened and always believed that her husband assaulted her.

They did not KNOW the actual truth.  They BELIEVED something to be true that wasn't.

The Biblical God, Allah, Jesus, take your pick...all stories handed down from generation to generation for thousands and thousands of years.  Regardless of how long something has been believed or how many billions of people believe it...Belief does not equate truth.  Yet as humans we tend to think that it does. Thinking is the key to all knowledge and it is the key to truth.  One can prove beyond a shadow of doubt that something is true.  One can discern by thought process those things that are not.  

8 hours ago, Guyver said:

And if gods mean beings who exist that are greater than us in some way, then of course that’s possible.  Some may consider it more likely than not.  That opinion is just as good as any other.

We have found no other life forms other than this planet. Beings who exist that are greater than us in some way....it really doesn't compute Guyver.  

8 hours ago, Guyver said:

Earlier you said that my point about additional dimensions was moot, or rather you implied it was irrelevant and it’s not.  It’s a valid point because it is not only theoretically, but mathematically plausible, and some models offer a better fit for the known data.  Since that is the case, and dimensional analysis demonstrates such a significant change from one to the other, the string theory, or multiverse theory, to the eight dimension models  (which are all plausible ) show that reality can exist that we are unaware of.  If such things do exist, then it demonstrates how things like ghosts and gods and everything else is possible.

   BS.

The Universe works on a set of defined principles...we already know what they are. It's called the Laws of Physics. String theories, etc. are as unprovable as gods

8 hours ago, Guyver said:

This idea is better than the idea that no gods exist (IMHO) because it’s based on science and mathematical models.  To me, that brings more weight than simply dismissing a thing because it’s unknown.  So, I guess you and I will just have to agree to disagree.

  It is not that gods are 'unknown' it is that they are a myth.  They have absolutely no bearing in the real world.  That is the truth.  As long as one entertains the myth as possibly legitimate, one will never know the truth of the matter. That's why I said you are still bogged down in the BS.  The truth...is something else.

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Piney
3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

 With IQ's dropping and faith increasing I suspect that the spiritual boner of Armageddon will be upon the world soon, all due to self-fulfilling actions by believers.

That's been a scary thought for me for over 2 decades.   What kind of hell on earth they would create that my children and grandchildren will inherit? It's why I rabidly pursue cult starters and doomsayers.

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joc
8 hours ago, Habitat said:

lol.....the Gospel of Joc, has the virtues of simplicity and brevity, but accuracy I am not so sure about.

If you are looking for accuracy...try consulting the Gospel of Genesis.  Then you will see how God created the Sun on the fourth day. And how after 6 days of hard creating...the Entity had to take a breather. 

The concepts are ridiculous.  I will go with the Gospel of Joc any day and everyday.

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XenoFish
10 minutes ago, Piney said:

That's been a scary thought for me for over 2 decades.   What kind of hell on earth they would create that my children and grandchildren will inherit? It's why I rabidly pursue cult starters and doomsayers.

I consider Christianity a nihilistic death cult. Any religion that desires the destruction of the world can not be anything else. 

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Will do

 

Ok but . . .

"Jesus laid great emphasis upon what he called the two truths of first import in the teachings of the kingdom, and they are: the attainment of salvation by faith, and faith alone, associated with the revolutionary teaching of the attainment of human liberty through the sincere recognition of truth, "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." Jesus was the truth made manifest in the flesh, and he promised to send his Spirit of Truth into the hearts of all his children after his return to the Father in heaven.

 

 

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Guyver
8 hours ago, Hello Davros Kitty said:

This is why I never say "There is no God, or Gods". However I do say that the Abrahamic God is a myth because I can prove it unlike an hypothetical God.

I’m interested.  Let’s hear your proof that the Abrahamic God is a myth.

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Piney
52 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I consider Christianity a nihilistic death cult. Any religion that desires the destruction of the world can not be anything else. 

My grandfather and stepfather considered it the same thing. The reason they sent me to Quaker seminary was because of "know your enemy better than he knows himself". 

Normally Traditionalists hate Christians with  pure venom. I'm the exception to the rule. 

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Guyver
1 hour ago, joc said:

The difference is not between thinking and knowing, it is between belief and actual truth.

Johnny married Suzy.  They were newlyweds and so in love.  They had a fight.  In a burst of emotion, Suzy ran out of the house slamming her face into the open door.  Her eye bruised immediately.  She went to her best friends party.  Having never said what actually happened.  Everyone at the party believed her husband had assaulted her.  Many left the party never knowing what happened and always believed that her husband assaulted her.

They did not KNOW the actual truth.  They BELIEVED something to be true that wasn't.

Right, but you just gave an example of the difference.  It is between thinking and knowing.  A belief is thinking, and actual truth is knowing.  If you don't actually know, then it's not truth.  The truth is that Johnny did not assault Suzy.....but some people believed he did.  Johnny and Suzy knew the truth and the others did not.  This is the exact reason why I called your truth a belief.  You don't have the facts and you don't know.  

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The Biblical God, Allah, Jesus, take your pick...all stories handed down from generation to generation for thousands and thousands of years.  Regardless of how long something has been believed or how many billions of people believe it...Belief does not equate truth.  Yet as humans we tend to think that it does. Thinking is the key to all knowledge and it is the key to truth.  One can prove beyond a shadow of doubt that something is true.  One can discern by thought process those things that are not.  

I never claimed that these "gods" represent the truth.  The fact that billions of people believe they are is not proof.  So, we actually agree on this point.  

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We have found no other life forms other than this planet. Beings who exist that are greater than us in some way....it really doesn't compute Guyver.  

It doesn't have to compute with us to be true.  For thousands of years people existed, thrived, flourished, reproduced and died and never knew there was any such thing as the square root of two.  But the square root of two exists and can be proven.  The fact that no one knew it or believed it until Pythagoras doesn't change the fact that it was true, even though no one knew it.   

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 BS.

The Universe works on a set of defined principles...we already know what they are. It's called the Laws of Physics. String theories, etc. are as unprovable as gods

 

You think that something mathematically demonstrated means it's unproven?  Mathematics is the language of physics.  The fact that they are not "proven" now doesn't mean they won't be in the future.  It's just like the square root of two.  It wasn't proven until it was proven.  The laws of physics are as we understand them and have the ability to explain them.  As I said before, reality may exist in more dimensions than we currently understand....which means we have more to learn about the laws of physics.  

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  It is not that gods are 'unknown' it is that they are a myth.  They have absolutely no bearing in the real world.  That is the truth.  As long as one entertains the myth as possibly legitimate, one will never know the truth of the matter. That's why I said you are still bogged down in the BS.  The truth...is something else.

It may very well be that all the "gods" of all the people throughout the years are myths.  That doesn't change the fact that God, or something like that may in fact exist.  I don't understand how this point is not understood.  People's faulty beliefs or ideas do not limit the possibility of something unknown existing.  An unknown is just that. 

Hacking Reality

Edited by Guyver
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Sherapy
22 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

That's right but subjectively, a person is able to know that God exists because of their personal experiences of experiencing him internally within. 

 

 

That you claim a personal experience as a god moment is nothing other than your interpretion of what you define as a god. This tells us nothing about any god, it only tells us about you, that you picked an experience, in your case, a feeling and attribute this as god "being internal" You don't know god anymore than anyone else, nor do you speak on the behalf of god, you just have a desire to be right and subjectively you can make up anything to convince yourself you are right. 

We don't argue our way to validity on subjective feelings, we argue our way to validity with the facts. 

 

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Will do
2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

That you claim a personal experience as a god moment is nothing other than your interpretion of what you define as a god. This tells us nothing about any god, it only tells us about you, that you picked an experience, in your case, a feeling and attribute this as god "being internal" You don't know god anymore than anyone else, nor do you speak on the behalf of god, you just have a desire to be right and subjectively you can make up anything to convince yourself you are right. 

We don't argue our way to validity on subjective feelings, we argue our way to validity with the facts. 

 

 

Sheri, what have your subjective experiences told you about the validity of those personal experiences compared to those things others have demonstrated to be fact objectively?

 

 

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Sherapy
21 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Sheri, what have your subjective experiences told you about the validity of those personal experiences compared to those things others have demonstrated to be fact objectively?

 

 

Will, my subjective feelings do not define anyone's reality, they only serve as the spin I put on it, my story if you will.

You do not know enough about Hueristics, critical thinking, and how the brain works and your posts demonstrate this.

I understand that you think your personal experiences are fact, but you are in error. 

That god being an "internal feeling" is a relgious teaching which only can be taken on faith. 

Taking an internal feeling of god on faith means there is no proof. Lol 

Basically, stop using it as your argument you cannot support your interpretion of a feeling as a fact. 

 

 

 

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Davros of Skaro
6 hours ago, Habitat said:

I regularly give you credit for trying to make sense of things, and then you say nasty things to me !

No you don't. 

6 hours ago, Habitat said:

 

LOL...But, all good, that just tells me you are a genuine seeker, not one of those horrid atheists ( there aren't any here) who really do believe they have it all worked out, that really is a very dark place to arrive at, and I don't believe you are headed there. But certainly not back to the fold of the church either, I can't recommend that.

You add nothing to the table. I try to unclutter the table. You moan, and rabble on against cleaning the table.

You had an experience that you cannot explain. SO WHAT! Pattern seeking afterwards has only inflated your ego, and does not answer a damn thing.

2 hours ago, Guyver said:

I’m interested.  Let’s hear your proof that the Abrahamic God is a myth.

Check out fully the links I provided, and then wait for my next post on the subject.

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Will do
2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Will, my subjective feelings do not define anyone's reality, they only serve as the spin I put on it, my story if you will.

You do not know enough about Hueristics, critical thinking, and how the brain works and your posts demonstrate this.

I understand that you think your personal experiences are fact, but you are in error. 

That god being an "internal feeling" is a relgious teaching which only can be taken on faith. 

Taking something on faith is means we have no proof. Lol 

 

 

 

Do you believe your personal experiences are fact?

 

 

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Sherapy
2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Do you believe your personal experiences are fact?

 

 

No, not in and of themselves, in other words, not in the way you are implying. 

 

 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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XenoFish
4 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

No, not in and of themselves, in otherwords not in the way you are implying. 

 

Seeing a ghost doesn't make them real, in the case of Will it does. That's what I gather. 

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Sherapy
4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Seeing a ghost doesn't make them real, in the case of Will it does. That's what I gather. 

Having feelings and deciding they are god sightings is another thing Will claims. 

Sheesh.

My guess is it is a critical application limitation-- easily fixed. 

Edited by Sherapy
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XenoFish
1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

Having feelings and deciding they are god sightings is another thing Will does. 

Sheesh.

My guess is it is a critical application limitation-- easily fixed. 

I think Will's desire for an idolized father figure has taken a nosedive into the shallow end of the pool. 

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Hammerclaw

Personal experiences are exactly that; personal, gifted to each individual alone. No two are alike and often only as real as one would have them so. They can be told to others but that's not the same as experienced by the individual. Something intangible is lost, relating them thus. Some things, very precious things, are best kept to oneself.

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Will do
21 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

No, not in and of themselves, in other words, not in the way you are implying. 

 

If you don't believe your personal experiences are fact, how do you determine the truth?

 

 

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Will do
18 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I think Will's desire for an idolized father figure has taken a nosedive into the shallow end of the pool. 

 

You mean where the fish live?

 

 

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Davros of Skaro
8 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

If you don't believe your personal experiences are fact, how do you determine the truth?

 

 

What are you 5 years old?

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Will do
8 minutes ago, Hello Davros Kitty said:

What are you 5 years old?

 

Were you one of those in the gallery at the US Senate yesterday that got removed for interupting the proceedings?

 

 

Edited by Will Due

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XenoFish

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