.AKUMA. Posted September 24, 2018 #51 Share Posted September 24, 2018 On 20/09/2018 at 11:06 AM, Hammerclaw said: Amusing. That system has already been compromised thanks to Ukrainian military intelligence assets and shared with Israel. The first time they turn them on will be the last time. I'm quite sure they wish to avoid a shooting war with the Israelis. can you share a source of that utter nonsense you have just said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted September 24, 2018 #52 Share Posted September 24, 2018 5 hours ago, .AKUMA. said: can you share a source of that utter nonsense you have just said? One of two scenarios is extant. Either the S-300 and earlier versions can be spoofed or Russia is choosing to refrain from shooting down Israeli sorties for their own goals. This is clearly the case since not one Israeli jet has been lost over Syria to AAA fire. The S-200 was an older, Syrian/Iranian operated system that got lucky damaging an Israeli F-16 in May. That "shootdown" cost the Syrians HALF their total air defense assets that were in operation at the time. The Russians don't want to start up with the IDF because they'd lose badly then have to escalate and either build up a massive force on Israel's border while Israel prepared and probably struck Russia first - and in an asymmetric way - or Putin would have to resort to his vaunted and oft threatened nukes. WHY would he throw away all his gains in the M.E. to stand with the religious crazies in Tehran? Even their own people loathe them. BTW, any frequency shifting smart radar can be spoofed once a computer has a chance to listen for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted September 25, 2018 #53 Share Posted September 25, 2018 10 hours ago, .AKUMA. said: can you share a source of that utter nonsense you have just said? Specific? No. Everything of military intelligence value concerning Russia, including military assets, held by Ukraine is at our disposal, however. http://uawire.org/news/us-and-ukraine-signed-an-agreement-on-military-cooperation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted September 25, 2018 #54 Share Posted September 25, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said: Specific? No. Everything of military intelligence value concerning Russia, including military assets, held by Ukraine is at our disposal, however. http://uawire.org/news/us-and-ukraine-signed-an-agreement-on-military-cooperation It doesn't say anything about the S-400 missile system being compromised, or flawed. That is just pure speculation on your part. Edited September 25, 2018 by NewAge1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted September 25, 2018 #55 Share Posted September 25, 2018 Russian MoD: S-400 data shows Israeli F-16 hid behind Russian Il-20 to avoid Syrian missile Quote Data captured by Russia’s S-400 system proves Israeli jets were responsible for the downing of the Russian plane, the Defense Ministry said, adding that the Syrian missile changed its course shortly before hitting the Il-20. Data gleaned from the S-400 air defense system deployed at the Russian Khmeimim air base in Syria’s Latakia province has revealed that the Syrian anti-air missile was, in fact, targeting an Israeli F-16 jet before it abruptly altered its course and eventually hit the Russian aircraft. This, and the position of all the aircraft at the moment of the September 17 incident, proves that an Israeli jet was de facto using the larger Il-20 as a cover, the Russian Defense Ministry spokesman, Major General Igor Konashenkov told journalists at Monday's news briefing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted September 25, 2018 #56 Share Posted September 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, NewAge1 said: It doesn't say anything about the S-400 missile system being compromised, or flawed. That is just pure speculation on your part. Logical extrapolation. Ukraine has the largest SAM network, outside of Russia and the Growler entered service in 2007. What Ukraine knows, we now know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.AKUMA. Posted September 25, 2018 #57 Share Posted September 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said: Logical extrapolation. Ukraine has the largest SAM network, outside of Russia and the Growler entered service in 2007. What Ukraine knows, we now know. Ukraine has a very limited amount of Soviet era s300 systems......these cant compare to the updated systems russia has been selling. Growler?? the russians have some of the best electronic warfare tech out there.....and your talking about a growler?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.AKUMA. Posted September 25, 2018 #58 Share Posted September 25, 2018 8 hours ago, and then said: One of two scenarios is extant. Either the S-300 and earlier versions can be spoofed or Russia is choosing to refrain from shooting down Israeli sorties for their own goals. This is clearly the case since not one Israeli jet has been lost over Syria to AAA fire. The S-200 was an older, Syrian/Iranian operated system that got lucky damaging an Israeli F-16 in May. That "shootdown" cost the Syrians HALF their total air defense assets that were in operation at the time. The Russians don't want to start up with the IDF because they'd lose badly then have to escalate and either build up a massive force on Israel's border while Israel prepared and probably struck Russia first - and in an asymmetric way - or Putin would have to resort to his vaunted and oft threatened nukes. WHY would he throw away all his gains in the M.E. to stand with the religious crazies in Tehran? Even their own people loathe them. BTW, any frequency shifting smart radar can be spoofed once a computer has a chance to listen for a while. I Agree it is not in russia or Israels interest to get into a direct conflict, Israel is far too small to actually sustain a viable war from land air and sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted September 25, 2018 #59 Share Posted September 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, .AKUMA. said: I Agree it is not in russia or Israels interest to get into a direct conflict, Israel is far too small to actually sustain a viable war from land air and sea. First, Israel would use its nukes if it was in existential danger. Remember "Never Again". Second, Israel's military is the strongest in the M.E. and ranked 9th in the world. Its airforce actually has been ranked as the best in the world based on its capacities. You raise an interesting point about Israel's size. Its land mass looks like a tiny splinter on a world map yet nearly every nation on the planet are demanding that they give up "land for peace" The future for that region is grim and when the smoke clears, Israel will still e standing. Badly damaged but standing, nonetheless. Its enemies, not so much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted September 25, 2018 #60 Share Posted September 25, 2018 1 hour ago, .AKUMA. said: Ukraine has a very limited amount of Soviet era s300 systems......these cant compare to the updated systems russia has been selling. Growler?? the russians have some of the best electronic warfare tech out there.....and your talking about a growler?? NATO code name for the SA-400 Triumf, is the SA-21 Growler, which is just an upgrade of the SA-300 and a decade old one, at that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.AKUMA. Posted September 25, 2018 #61 Share Posted September 25, 2018 50 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said: NATO code name for the SA-400 Triumf, is the SA-21 Growler, which is just an upgrade of the SA-300 and a decade old one, at that. Sorry my bad i thought you where talking about the EA 18 Growler electronic warfare jet, as far as i know non of the Ukrainian s300s are in service, they are going through upgrades as they are lacking massively in tech. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted September 25, 2018 #62 Share Posted September 25, 2018 12 hours ago, .AKUMA. said: the russians have some of the best electronic warfare tech out there. They do. It's not of much value when they can't use it due to the repercussions it would bring. If a war began, you can believe there would be losses, initially, but then those units would be swept from the area and some serious revenge would get underway. Why do you think they put so much of their R&D into anti-air assets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted September 26, 2018 #63 Share Posted September 26, 2018 9 hours ago, and then said: Why do you think they put so much of their R&D into anti-air assets? Because the Russian military capability is primarily focused on defense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted September 26, 2018 #64 Share Posted September 26, 2018 (edited) The NATO bases are the fruit of the past actions of Russia. Nice dodge, though. The answer is that they don't have the resources to stay even with U.S. stealth tech so they concentrated on an area they HAVE historically been talented in. I don't doubt the efficacy of the advanced S-series. I don't think the jury is in on how effective they'd be against the F-35 but we'll know the first time Israel feels the need to use one to actually attack a Russian air defense site. Do you honestly believe that a third-rate economy on sanctions can support a strong enough military to vanquish Israel? It's a joke. Yes, Russia could invade and destroy Israel conventionally. But they'd have to build a coalition and it would take months to assemble. Do you imagine the Israelis would simply wait for it to happen? Don't be daft. Edited September 26, 2018 by and then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud the mackem Posted September 26, 2018 #65 Share Posted September 26, 2018 Russia may be stubborn but they aren't stupid, there is no way that they will attack Israel directly as this would drag in America, Britain and France so Russia just carries on their Sabre rattling games as they do every day against the Western world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occult1 Posted September 27, 2018 #66 Share Posted September 27, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, and then said: The NATO bases are the fruit of the past actions of Russia. Nice dodge, though. The answer is that they don't have the resources to stay even with U.S. stealth tech so they concentrated on an area they HAVE historically been talented in. I don't doubt the efficacy of the advanced S-series. I don't think the jury is in on how effective they'd be against the F-35 but we'll know the first time Israel feels the need to use one to actually attack a Russian air defense site. Do you honestly believe that a third-rate economy on sanctions can support a strong enough military to vanquish Israel? It's a joke. Yes, Russia could invade and destroy Israel conventionally. But they'd have to build a coalition and it would take months to assemble. Do you imagine the Israelis would simply wait for it to happen? Don't be daft. Russia will establish a no-fly zone over Latakia and is upgrading the older Syria's S-200 to S-300 (as well as supplying automated fire-control systems). https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/breaking-russia-establishes-no-fly-zone-over-latakia-province-diplomat/ Looks like the matter is settled. Edited September 27, 2018 by NewAge1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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