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Russia blames Israel after military plane


Setton

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Russia has said Syria shot down one of its military planes - but laid the blame for the deaths of the 15 personnel on board with Israel.

The defence ministry said Israeli jets forced the Il-20 plane into the path of Syrian air defence systems on Monday after failing to give Moscow enough warning of a strike on Syrian targets.

Http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45556290

Time for the usual suspects to pick a side - Israel or Russia. 

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1 hour ago, Setton said:

Time for the usual suspects to pick a side - Israel or Russia. 

Time to get out of the Middle East and let them Darwin themselves out. 

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1 hour ago, Piney said:

Time to get out of the Middle East and let them Darwin themselves out. 

We will, eventually.  I think our presence there is the only thing keeping the IDF on any kind of a chain.  After what Iran accomplished in Lebanon by funding and building Hizballah, Israel simply isn't going to allow any form of that in Syria.  They can't afford to allow another major, well-armed force to set up on their border.  Maybe the Russians will give the Syrians better training on target discrimination...

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did they use Russian missile?  maybe Russia should leave friend-foe recognition in their missiles set to friend on everything Russian when they sell them

Edited by aztek
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Russia always blames someone else, other than the ones who down a plane with a Russian Missile. 

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2 hours ago, aztek said:

did they use Russian missile?  maybe Russia should leave friend-foe recognition in their missiles set to friend on everything Russian when they sell them

From what I heard it was a S-200 missile that downed the Russian aircraft.  Being that the S-200 was designed in the 50's, has spotty friend or foe recognition, that Israel was using various jamming techniques, and that the Syrians have a habit of blind firing a lot of missiles out during these attacks to give the impression of good missile defense/air control it is more surprising an accident like this hasnt happened sooner.

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6 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Russia always blames someone else, other than the ones who down a plane with a Russian Missile. 

Israeli jets pulled a stunt that was potentially dangerous for both sides. They failed to adequately communicate their intentions. The Latakia area is a Syrian territory on the Mediterranean coast with a heavy Russian millitary presence. It should be considered off-limits by Israel.

Edited by NewAge1
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30 minutes ago, NewAge1 said:

Israeli jets pulled a stunt that was potentially dangerous for both sides. They failed to adequately communicate their intentions. The Latakia area is a Syrian territory on the Mediterranean coast with a heavy Russian millitary presence. It should be considered off-limits by Israel.

If the Rooskies can't stand the heat, they should have stayed out of the kitchen. Welcome to the Middle East.

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7 hours ago, aztek said:

did they use Russian missile?  maybe Russia should leave friend-foe recognition in their missiles set to friend on everything Russian when they sell them

Actually ^^^ I would have thought that would have been a given.

On a seperate issue, word is that Israeli jets fired their missiles over a French frigate, making it seem that the French fired these missiles, trying to illicit Russian retaliation against the French, thus drawing the French further into the conflict. Israel is starting to get nervous that the war is almost over and Iran and Russia are going to consolidate their gains. 

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1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

If the Rooskies can't stand the heat, they should have stayed out of the kitchen. Welcome to the Middle East.

Russia and Israel have mutual agreements to avoid such dangerous incidents. From what I heard, Israel gave Russia a one minute's warning, which is certainly not enough to avoid the risk that any particular Russian aircraft be caught in a cross-fire. You see, both countries have absolutely no interest in a direct confrontation. And the war in Syria is by all accounts over. The target must have been very important to Israel but clearly they pushed it a little too far.

Edited by NewAge1
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Who, or what, was the French ship shooting at ?

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1 hour ago, Habitat said:

Who, or what, was the French ship shooting at ?

Probably unrelated.

Russian MoD admitted it was Syria's air defense system that downed the plane but blames Israel's dangerous gambit.

Edited by NewAge1
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2 hours ago, NewAge1 said:

Russia and Israel have mutual agreements to avoid such dangerous incidents. From what I heard, Israel gave Russia a one minute's warning, which is certainly not enough to avoid the risk that any particular Russian aircraft be caught in a cross-fire. You see, both countries have absolutely no interest in a direct confrontation. And the war in Syria is by all accounts over. The target must have been very important to Israel but clearly they pushed it a little too far.

 A Russian missile, fired by a Russian Ally downed a Russian plane. There was no direct confrontation, which is just as well. Israel is more than capable of rendering the Russian Expeditionary Force combat ineffective should the need arise. This ain't the Ukraine and nobody is impressed by their "Little Green Men."

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4 hours ago, NewAge1 said:

Israeli jets pulled a stunt that was potentially dangerous for both sides. They failed to adequately communicate their intentions. The Latakia area is a Syrian territory on the Mediterranean coast with a heavy Russian millitary presence. It should be considered off-limits by Israel.

I think Israel is making its intentions crystal clear.  They have said, repeatedly, in multiple venues that they will NEVER allow an Iranian buildup in Syria.  No footprint at all.  NONE.  The Russians are trying to walk a fine line and stay on friendly terms with Israel and Iran and it isn't going to work.  Israel has made it clear that they will attack and destroy Iranian weapons that are intended for Hizballah, no matter where those weapons are found.  If Assad and Putin don't want war with the baddest military in the region then they need to decide what to do with Iran and the intentions of the IslamoNazis in Tehran.  The real subtext here seems to be that Russia may be sending alerts to Iranian forces prior to Israeli attacks and Israel is aware of it.  If they want their attacks to be successful, they'll need to give the Russians less time to alert anyone of what's coming.

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4 hours ago, Mr.United_Nations said:

Seems just misscomunication between all sides

miscommunication between Syrian and Russian forces but an attempted false flag by Israel. 

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3 hours ago, NewAge1 said:

Probably unrelated.

Russian MoD admitted it was Syria's air defense system that downed the plane but blames Israel's dangerous gambit.

i doubt nothing is unrelated or coincidental in Syria anymore... 

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Meh... storm in a samovar. President Putin has already described this as an "unfortunate accident". Israel is co-operating with Moscow and promised to hand over all radar tapes etc. There does not appear to be a "diplomatic incident" over this act of barbarity by the Syrians. 

Israel attacked a ground facility. The Syrian anti-air defences went wacky, and shot at everything over a wide radius without discrimination. The Israeli Jets.... The incoming missiles..... Birds... ...Small mice....Stones.....Churches..... Cider. Everything. he Russian-built (and maintained) S-200 missile was designed to attack high-attitude bomber and AWACS aircraft... just like the IL20 .. and is mediocre against fast, agile fighter/bomber jets. The Russian propeller plane never stood a chance. 

Everything else is fake news and rumour. 

 

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Just now, Hammerclaw said:

 A Russian missile, fired by a Russian Ally downed a Russian plane. There was no direct confrontation, which is just as well. Israel is more than capable of rendering the Russian Expeditionary Force combat ineffective should the need arise. This ain't the Ukraine and nobody is impressed by their "Little Green Men."

a large part of Israel army consists of ex soviet immigrants, many of whom served in ussr, i agree Israel is more than capable

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18 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

i doubt nothing is unrelated or coincidental in Syria anymore... 

One theory is that the airstrikes were carried over a french frigate stationned off the coast which fooled Syria's air defefense system into thinking cruse missiles were fired.

Edited by NewAge1
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20 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

 A Russian missile, fired by a Russian Ally downed a Russian plane. There was no direct confrontation, which is just as well. Israel is more than capable of rendering the Russian Expeditionary Force combat ineffective should the need arise. This ain't the Ukraine and nobody is impressed by their "Little Green Men."

Russia has several S-400 systems deployed throughtout Syria, they are more than capable of taking down F-16 fighter jets should the need arise.

The fact that they haven't used them so far means they have no interest in a conflict escalation and neither does Israel.

Edited by NewAge1
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21 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

miscommunication between Syrian and Russian forces but an attempted false flag by Israel. 

Uh... to what purpose? Everyone in the region that has radar could tell who fired, when they fired and what they targeted. I'll say it again - Israel has been crystal clear about their goals and intentions.  They are NOT going to allow Iran to box them in with another "Hizballah-type" proxy on their northern border.  If the Iranians and Russians want war, Israel is ready to give it to them.

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2 hours ago, NewAge1 said:

The fact that they haven't used them so far means they have no interest in a conflict escalation and neither does Israel.

I agree.  The problem seems to be that Russia is unable or unwilling to restrain Iran.  This ends badly if the mullahs get their way.

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On 9/19/2018 at 12:48 AM, NewAge1 said:

The target must have been very important to Israel but clearly they pushed it a little too far.

Reducing that window for notification might be a message to Moscow that Israel KNOWS their targets are being shared with the Iranians.  It's a really dangerous time to be a forward-deployed member of the Russian military.

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