Hankenhunter Posted September 27, 2018 #126 Share Posted September 27, 2018 9 hours ago, psyche101 said: You seem to be missing a very important point here. Although dark matter is pretty much invisible, we found it. If people like Tyler Henry really could detect a 'energy' or 'force' we would have found it. There is no way for the complex patterns of neural connections that are 'you' to survive death and decay. Its hard to describe Dark Matter as we think it's a new form of matter altogether. So conventional terms just don't fit. As per the link Xeno offered, it is suspected to be a property of space, and would most likely help explain some current anomalies like galaxies that have lower amounts of dark matter. It might even help us find the grand unification theory and unite QM and GR. Shoving the paranormal into the current gaps in knowledge is pointless and somewhat ridiculous. It helps nobody get anywhere, only hard work does that. Dark Matter and the paranormal are like a pizza and a green shirt. They have nothing to do with each other. Point of contention. Scientists have found the effects of dark matter, not dark matter or energy itself. So, no proof just conjecture. Hank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted September 27, 2018 #127 Share Posted September 27, 2018 43 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said: Point of contention. Scientists have found the effects of dark matter, not dark matter or energy itself. So, no proof just conjecture. Hank Still not a reason to scream, " It's paranormal." or "It's psychic". is there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hankenhunter Posted September 27, 2018 #128 Share Posted September 27, 2018 22 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Still not a reason to scream, " It's paranormal." or "It's psychic". is there. Still not a reason to scream, " Its all fake, nothing to see here". is there. It cuts both ways. A skeptic without an open mind is a denialist. Hank 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hankenhunter Posted September 27, 2018 #129 Share Posted September 27, 2018 I'll say one thing, if I had paranormal abilities, I sure wouldn't go public with it. That way lies insanity and heartbreak. Hank 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted September 27, 2018 #130 Share Posted September 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said: Still not a reason to scream, " Its all fake, nothing to see here". is there. It cuts both ways. A skeptic without an open mind is a denialist. Hank A skeptic goes with the most reasonable and sound explanation. If something comes along and prove psychic phenomena is real. Then will talk about that. Till then, this is nothing more than a cold reading scammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hankenhunter Posted September 27, 2018 #131 Share Posted September 27, 2018 I agree 1 minute ago, XenoFish said: A skeptic goes with the most reasonable and sound explanation. If something comes along and prove psychic phenomena is real. Then will talk about that. Till then, this is nothing more than a cold reading scammer. I agree that skepticism is healthy, but lumping all paranormal into one box and denying it isn't. Hank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted September 27, 2018 #132 Share Posted September 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said: I agree I agree that skepticism is healthy, but lumping all paranormal into one box and denying it isn't. Hank All that's required is factual proof. I have yet to see any. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted September 27, 2018 #133 Share Posted September 27, 2018 10 hours ago, openozy said: What a load of garbage. Why is it a load of grabage? Can you explain why that's not true? We have detected very weak forces in nature, if there was some energy strong enough to maintain the complex neural patterns together, there is no doubt that we would have detected it by now. You don't seem big on answers, just ad homs, I think that says all one needs to know about your own argument. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted September 27, 2018 #134 Share Posted September 27, 2018 4 hours ago, papageorge1 said: One has to stop at some point a debate that can be made to go on into infinity, right? There's a point where consensus is reached and proofs speak for themselves. That tends to be the moment when you leave a discussion. 4 hours ago, papageorge1 said: Well what I see is that when controlled scientific testing yields evidence for the paranormal, the anti-paranormal clique just moves to stage 2; Attacking the Testers. It's old to me and can be made to run into infinity...…. What examples can you provide to substantiate this claim? With Randis challenge the tester gets to design thier own test, they just can't use their own props. How is that unfair or attacking anyone? 4 hours ago, papageorge1 said: The question becomes, 'who is the official judge?'. Answer: No one. So, we each must consider all the information and argumentation and think for ourselves. With all due respect you seem to to be ignoring the latter. Your not thinking here, you are blindly championing any claim of the paranormal and offering the benefit of the doubt to the claimant. There's no critical thought. Its not up to any one of us just like it's not up to Randi or anyone else. Like the celocanth the proof is in the presentation. The plural of anecdote is not data. 4 hours ago, papageorge1 said: And to me the controlled scientific testing is just a sliver of the iceberg. The rest of the iceberg to me is the reasoned analysis of the anecdotal and investigative work related to the paranormal. To me, there is an iceberg there that shows current scientific understanding is dramatically incomplete on the most important questions of our existence. We don't deny that there is plenty yet to learn. But I think your over compensating to shoehorn the paranormal in. The gaps of knowledge are gaps, not an indication of the paranormal. 4 hours ago, papageorge1 said: Now as to two videos at the end (I believe you have posted those to me before), what is the point of them? Not even watching them, I am already sure that some people's paranormal claims will fail testing. So what is this saying that I don't already acknowledge? I do believe some controlled scientific studies have yielded positive results. That is the important issue for me. The point was that you claim there is an agenda which specifically denies paranormal claims. This was a chance for you to illustrate that accusation. As usual, you don't finish a discussion and depart when hard evidence or sound demonstrations are offered. This strongly indicates that you have no interest in logic or critical thinking and despise skepticism. Again, you back of from your claims. It's really little wonder you are considered credulous by the majority of posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted September 27, 2018 #135 Share Posted September 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Hankenhunter said: Point of contention. Scientists have found the effects of dark matter, not dark matter or energy itself. So, no proof just conjecture. Hank I beg to differ. We are talking about it right now. It might be hypothetical due to its nature, but so was the Higgs Boson for 60 years or so. Again, how is it related at all to the paranormal, where exactly is that connection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted September 27, 2018 #136 Share Posted September 27, 2018 1 minute ago, psyche101 said: There's a point where consensus is reached and proofs speak for themselves. That tends to be the moment when you leave a discussion. In all my years there has never been a consensus reached between believers and non-believers. I don't see it happening for the first time in our discussions here. It doesn't appear that there is any new ground to cover between us that we haven't already covered in the past by the look of things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted September 27, 2018 #137 Share Posted September 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Hankenhunter said: Still not a reason to scream, " Its all fake, nothing to see here". is there. It cuts both ways. A skeptic without an open mind is a denialist. Hank There's no reason to consider a connection. That's entirely wishful thinking. It doesn't cut both ways. Dark Matter is suspected to be a property of space, not an underlying aspect that supports the paranormal, you are drawing connections that don't exist. Like I say, it's like a pizza and a green shirt. They both exist, but have nothing else that relates them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted September 27, 2018 #138 Share Posted September 27, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, papageorge1 said: In all my years there has never been a consensus reached between believers and non-believers. I don't see it happening for the first time in our discussions here. It depends on what hoi mean by concensus. It's not up to you or I it is up to what can be proven. I'd say there's been plenty of consensus but you simply refuse to consider it because it doesn't support your personal wants and hopes. Quote It doesn't appear that there is any new ground to cover between us that we haven't already covered in the past by the look of things. 10 minutes ago, psyche101 said: There's a point where consensus is reached and proofs speak for themselves. That tends to be the moment when you leave a discussion. Gosh, look at that will you. Is that proof that I am psychic? Edited September 27, 2018 by psyche101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted September 27, 2018 #139 Share Posted September 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Hankenhunter said: I'll say one thing, if I had paranormal abilities, I sure wouldn't go public with it. That way lies insanity and heartbreak. Hank Utter nonsense. Any genuine ability would offer fame and fortune. That's why so many hacks lie about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted September 27, 2018 #140 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Here's the thing about psychic abilities. If they were real, they would open up so many different avenues. Space exploration would be insane. If people could actually OBE or Astral Project to different places, imagine what could be discovered. Hell, I'd suspect time travel might be possible through such techniques. Telekinesis would be excellent for actual astronauts as would telepathy. Even the whole field of physics would have something new and strange to explore. But alas nothing. Even finding a particle that is some form of consciousness energy, a soul, would open doors to further exploration. Could you imagine being able to literally capture a human soul and implant it into a newer body? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted September 27, 2018 #141 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Exactly! As when phlogiston was superseded by the Periodic Table. It changed science altogether. It was a huge shift in knowledge. Science embraced it and benefited greatly from it. This anti science paranormal stance is nothing more than sour grapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openozy Posted September 27, 2018 Author #142 Share Posted September 27, 2018 1 hour ago, XenoFish said: . If something comes along and prove psychic phenomena is real. Then will talk about that See, you wouldn't even accept it if was proven.Talk about it?You have serious problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted September 27, 2018 #143 Share Posted September 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, openozy said: See, you wouldn't even accept it if was proven.Talk about it?You have serious problems. Do you have some kind of reading problem or is this some tactic to keep flame baiting people? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openozy Posted September 27, 2018 Author #144 Share Posted September 27, 2018 25 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Could you imagine being able to literally capture a human soul and implant it into a newer body? Your still thinking of it as physical,unfortunately your stuck in your body until you pass, so get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted September 27, 2018 #145 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Just now, openozy said: Your still thinking of it as physical,unfortunately your stuck in your body until you pass, so get used to it. Prove that it's not. Give myself and other the proof we so desire. Factual evidence that has been repeatedly tested and validated by several groups. I dare you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openozy Posted September 27, 2018 Author #146 Share Posted September 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Do you have some kind of reading problem or is this some tactic to keep flame baiting people? Just quoting you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openozy Posted September 27, 2018 Author #147 Share Posted September 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Prove that it's not. Give myself and other the proof we so desire. Factual evidence that has been repeatedly tested and validated by several groups. I dare you. The day you pop your clogs you will get your proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted September 27, 2018 #148 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Just now, openozy said: The day you pop your clogs you will get your proof. Just like sooooo many believers you've got absolutely nothing. Why am I not surprised. Kinda hilarious when I think about it. You believers are all talk till you're pushed into a corner. When you're there and have to put up, you never can. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openozy Posted September 27, 2018 Author #149 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Just now, XenoFish said: Just like sooooo many believers you've got absolutely nothing. Why am I not surprised. Kinda hilarious when I think about it. You believers are all talk till you're pushed into a corner. When you're there and have to put up, you never can. No we have everthing,all you have is a bunch of unenlightened nerds twiddling their thumbs in frustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted September 27, 2018 #150 Share Posted September 27, 2018 1 minute ago, openozy said: No we have everthing,all you have is a bunch of unenlightened nerds twiddling their thumbs in frustration. You have nothing. And you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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