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openozy

Tyler Henry

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papageorge1
6 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Lol, I don't think you have ever completed a discussion with me. You just seem to fade off usually. 

 

One has to stop at some point a debate that can be made to go on into infinity, right?

6 hours ago, psyche101 said:

 

I don't deny that would exist, but its not the case most of the time. There is no point in pointing your finger at any person. Blaming Randi or 'Scientists' is just a cop out. No one person is an authority on drawing a line as to what is considered paranormal or not. It would be like discovering the Celocanth. People go 'rubbish, if it exists show us one' so one was produced and bam, that's that. It's fact not an anecdote. Proof is there for everyone to see and there's no denying it. Today, it's history. 

If the paranormal was genuine, it would work exactly the same way. And it's not like the claims haven't had a good few hundred years to be validated. It's unicorns and mermaids. Just man made myths. 

Well what I see is that when controlled scientific testing yields evidence for the paranormal, the anti-paranormal clique just moves to stage 2; Attacking the Testers. It's old to me and can be made to run into infinity...….

The question becomes, 'who is the official judge?'. Answer: No one. So, we each must consider all the information and argumentation and think for ourselves.

And to me the controlled scientific testing is just a sliver of the iceberg. The rest of the iceberg to me is the reasoned analysis of the anecdotal and investigative work related to the paranormal. To me, there is an iceberg there that shows current scientific understanding is dramatically incomplete on the most important questions of our existence. 

 

Now as to two videos at the end (I believe you have posted those to me before), what is the point of them? Not even watching them, I am already sure that some people's paranormal claims will fail testing. So what is this saying that I don't already acknowledge? I do believe some controlled scientific studies have yielded positive results. That is the important issue for me.

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Hankenhunter
9 hours ago, psyche101 said:

You seem to be missing a very important point here. 

Although dark matter is pretty much invisible, we found it. If people like Tyler Henry really could detect a 'energy' or 'force' we would have found it.

There is no way for the complex patterns of neural connections that are 'you' to survive death and decay. 

Its hard to describe Dark Matter as we think it's a new form of matter altogether. So conventional terms just don't fit. As per the link Xeno offered, it is suspected to be a property of space, and would most likely help explain some current anomalies like galaxies that have lower amounts of dark matter. It might even help us find the grand unification theory and unite QM and GR. 

Shoving the paranormal into the current gaps in knowledge is pointless and somewhat ridiculous. It helps nobody get anywhere, only hard work does that. Dark Matter and the paranormal are like a pizza and a green shirt. They have nothing to do with each other. 

Point of contention. Scientists have found the effects of dark matter, not dark matter or energy itself. So, no proof just conjecture.

Hank

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XenoFish
43 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

Point of contention. Scientists have found the effects of dark matter, not dark matter or energy itself. So, no proof just conjecture.

Hank

Still not a reason to scream, " It's paranormal." or "It's psychic". is there. 

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Hankenhunter
22 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Still not a reason to scream, " It's paranormal." or "It's psychic". is there. 

Still not a reason to scream, " Its all fake, nothing to see here". is there. It cuts both ways. A skeptic without an open mind is a denialist.

Hank

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Hankenhunter

I'll say one thing, if I had paranormal abilities, I sure wouldn't go public with it. That way lies insanity and heartbreak.

Hank

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XenoFish
2 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

Still not a reason to scream, " Its all fake, nothing to see here". is there. It cuts both ways. A skeptic without an open mind is a denialist.

Hank

A skeptic goes with the most reasonable and sound explanation. If something comes along and prove psychic phenomena is real. Then will talk about that. Till then, this is nothing more than a cold reading scammer.

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Hankenhunter

I agree

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

A skeptic goes with the most reasonable and sound explanation. If something comes along and prove psychic phenomena is real. Then will talk about that. Till then, this is nothing more than a cold reading scammer.

I agree that skepticism is healthy, but lumping all paranormal into one box and denying it isn't. 

Hank 

 

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XenoFish
2 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

I agree

I agree that skepticism is healthy, but lumping all paranormal into one box and denying it isn't. 

Hank 

 

All that's required is factual proof. I have yet to see any.

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psyche101
10 hours ago, openozy said:

What a load of garbage.

Why is it a load of grabage? Can you explain why that's not true? We have detected very weak forces in nature, if there was some energy strong enough to maintain the complex neural patterns together, there is no doubt that we would have detected it by now. 

 

You don't seem big on answers, just ad homs, I think that says all one needs to know about your own argument. 

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psyche101
4 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

One has to stop at some point a debate that can be made to go on into infinity, right?

There's a point where consensus is reached and proofs speak for themselves. 

That tends to be the moment when you leave a discussion. 

4 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Well what I see is that when controlled scientific testing yields evidence for the paranormal, the anti-paranormal clique just moves to stage 2; Attacking the Testers. It's old to me and can be made to run into infinity...….

What examples can you provide to substantiate this claim? 

With Randis challenge the tester gets to design thier own test, they just can't use their own props. How is that unfair or attacking anyone? 

4 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

The question becomes, 'who is the official judge?'. Answer: No one. So, we each must consider all the information and argumentation and think for ourselves.

With all due respect you seem to to be ignoring the latter. Your not thinking here, you are blindly championing any claim of the paranormal and offering the benefit of the doubt to the claimant. There's no critical thought. 

Its not up to any one of us just like it's not up to Randi or anyone else. Like the celocanth the proof is in the presentation. The plural of anecdote is not data. 

4 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

And to me the controlled scientific testing is just a sliver of the iceberg. The rest of the iceberg to me is the reasoned analysis of the anecdotal and investigative work related to the paranormal. To me, there is an iceberg there that shows current scientific understanding is dramatically incomplete on the most important questions of our existence. 

We don't deny that there is plenty yet to learn. But I think your over compensating to shoehorn the paranormal in. The gaps of knowledge are gaps, not an indication of the paranormal. 

4 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Now as to two videos at the end (I believe you have posted those to me before), what is the point of them? Not even watching them, I am already sure that some people's paranormal claims will fail testing. So what is this saying that I don't already acknowledge? I do believe some controlled scientific studies have yielded positive results. That is the important issue for me.

The point was that you claim there is an agenda which specifically denies paranormal claims. This was a chance for you to illustrate that accusation. As usual, you don't finish a discussion and depart when hard evidence or sound demonstrations are offered. This strongly indicates that you have no interest in logic or critical thinking and despise skepticism. Again, you back of from your claims. It's really little wonder you are considered credulous by the majority of posters. 

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psyche101
2 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

Point of contention. Scientists have found the effects of dark matter, not dark matter or energy itself. So, no proof just conjecture.

Hank

I beg to differ. We are talking about it right now. It might be hypothetical due to its nature, but so was the Higgs Boson for 60 years or so. 

Again, how is it related at all to the paranormal, where exactly is that connection? 

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papageorge1
1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

There's a point where consensus is reached and proofs speak for themselves. 

That tends to be the moment when you leave a discussion. 

 

In all my years there has never been a consensus reached between believers and non-believers. I don't see it happening for the first time in our discussions here.

It doesn't appear that there is any new ground to cover between us that we haven't already covered in the past by the look of things.

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psyche101
1 hour ago, Hankenhunter said:

Still not a reason to scream, " Its all fake, nothing to see here". is there. It cuts both ways. A skeptic without an open mind is a denialist.

Hank

There's no reason to consider a connection. That's entirely wishful thinking. It doesn't cut both ways. Dark Matter is suspected to be a property of space, not an underlying aspect that supports the paranormal, you are drawing connections that don't exist. Like I say, it's like a pizza and a green shirt. They both exist, but have nothing else that relates them. 

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psyche101
4 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

In all my years there has never been a consensus reached between believers and non-believers. I don't see it happening for the first time in our discussions here.

It depends on what hoi mean by concensus. It's not up to you or I  it is up to what can be proven. I'd say there's been plenty of consensus but you simply refuse to consider it because it doesn't support your personal wants and hopes. 

Quote

It doesn't appear that there is any new ground to cover between us that we haven't already covered in the past by the look of things.

 

10 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

There's a point where consensus is reached and proofs speak for themselves. 

That tends to be the moment when you leave a discussion. 

Gosh, look at that will you. Is that proof that I am psychic? 

Edited by psyche101

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psyche101
1 hour ago, Hankenhunter said:

I'll say one thing, if I had paranormal abilities, I sure wouldn't go public with it. That way lies insanity and heartbreak.

Hank

Utter nonsense. Any genuine ability would offer fame and fortune. That's why so many hacks lie about it. 

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XenoFish

Here's the thing about psychic abilities. If they were real, they would open up so many different avenues. Space exploration would be insane. If people could actually OBE or Astral Project to different places, imagine what could be discovered. Hell, I'd suspect time travel might be possible through such techniques. Telekinesis would be excellent for actual astronauts as would telepathy. Even the whole field of physics would have something new and strange to explore. But alas nothing. Even finding a particle that is some form of consciousness energy, a soul, would open doors to further exploration. Could you imagine being able to literally capture a human soul and implant it into a newer body? 

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psyche101

Exactly! 

As when phlogiston was superseded by the Periodic Table. 

It changed science altogether. It was a huge shift in knowledge. Science embraced it and benefited greatly from it. This anti science paranormal stance is nothing more than sour grapes. 

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openozy
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

. If something comes along and prove psychic phenomena is real. Then will talk about that

See, you wouldn't even accept it if was proven.Talk about it?You have serious problems.

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XenoFish
3 minutes ago, openozy said:

See, you wouldn't even accept it if was proven.Talk about it?You have serious problems.

Do you have some kind of reading problem or is this some tactic to keep flame baiting people?

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openozy
25 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Could you imagine being able to literally capture a human soul and implant it into a newer body?

Your still thinking of it as physical,unfortunately your stuck in your body until you pass, so get used to it.

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XenoFish
Just now, openozy said:

Your still thinking of it as physical,unfortunately your stuck in your body until you pass, so get used to it.

Prove that it's not. Give myself and other the proof we so desire. Factual evidence that has been repeatedly tested and validated by several groups. I dare you.

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openozy
2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Do you have some kind of reading problem or is this some tactic to keep flame baiting people?

Just quoting you.

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openozy
2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Prove that it's not. Give myself and other the proof we so desire. Factual evidence that has been repeatedly tested and validated by several groups. I dare you.

The day you pop your clogs you will get your proof.

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XenoFish
Just now, openozy said:

The day you pop your clogs you will get your proof.

Just like sooooo many believers you've got absolutely nothing. Why am I not surprised. Kinda hilarious when I think about it. You believers are all talk till you're pushed into a corner. When you're there and have to put up, you never can. 

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openozy
Just now, XenoFish said:

Just like sooooo many believers you've got absolutely nothing. Why am I not surprised. Kinda hilarious when I think about it. You believers are all talk till you're pushed into a corner. When you're there and have to put up, you never can. 

No we have everthing,all you have is a bunch of unenlightened nerds twiddling their thumbs in frustration.

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