History Channel Show. Offensive???

[pallidin]

This thread is about Ireland now?

And it was from the beginning. Huh...

[pallidin]

Look, if the populous of Ireland wants to have their own, distinct country apart from Great Britain... go for it!!!

Just don't kill people in the process.

[danydandan]

28 minutes ago, pallidin said:

This thread is about Ireland now?

And it was from the beginning. Huh...

No it wasn't.

[Habitat]

I have Irish, English, and German ancestry, so can't take sides ! And am ashamed to say I have laughed at "Irish Jokes" ! But Dave Allen used to tell them, so they must be OK. One of the unkindest references to the Irish I've heard, was a "Lady" (wife of a Knight of the realm) refer to cobwebs as "Irish Lace". 

[Black Monk]

46 minutes ago, pallidin said:

Look, if the populous of Ireland wants to have their own, distinct country apart from Great Britain... go for it!!!

Just don't kill people in the process.

Many of the people of Ireland died so they can become a free, independent, sovereign state.

Almost exactly 50 years after achieving it, the people of Ireland then deliberately got rid of that hard-fought-for freedom, independence and sovereignty by joining what is now the EU. Now, rather than being ruled from from London, Ireland is instead ruled from Brussels. It is no longer a sovereign state and is just a state and region of the EU, and a minor one at that, and the country's Taoiseach, Varadkar, is nothing but a meek Brussels lackey.

 

Edited September 29, 2018 by Black Monk

[danydandan]

58 minutes ago, Black Monk said:

Many of the people of Ireland died so they can become a free, independent, sovereign state.

Almost exactly 50 years after achieving it, the people of Ireland then deliberately got rid of that hard-fought-for freedom, independence and sovereignty by joining what is now the EU. Now, rather than being ruled from from London, Ireland is instead ruled from Brussels. It is no longer a sovereign state and is just a state and region of the EU, and a minor one at that, and the country's Taoiseach, Varadkar, is nothing but a meek Brussels lackey.

 

Many Irish people were also killed by British people when our Country was invaded too. People seems to forget that.

I also agree with you 100% fighting for freedom for 800 years to get then hand it over to the EU in less than 30. Typically Irish lol.

Edited September 29, 2018 by danydandan

[Ozymandias]

7 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Many Irish people were also killed by British people when our Country was invaded too. Kill seen to forget that.

I also agree with you 100% fighting for freedom for 800 years to get then hand it over to the EU in less than 30. Typically Irish lol.

It's called 'self determination', the freedom to choose for yourself. That is what counts. Our sovereignty - the will of the Irish people expressed through free democratic vote - is what they fought for and what we protect to this day. The EU has to consult the Irish people to implement substantial change.

[danydandan]

33 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

It's called 'self determination', the freedom to choose for yourself. That is what counts. Our sovereignty - the will of the Irish people expressed through free democratic vote - is what they fought for and what we protect to this day. The EU has to consult the Irish people to implement substantial change.

I understand that.

But handing away our sovereignty is what happened.

[TigerBright19]

No country is free under Brussels' legislations.  It is odd that Ireland fought for independence and then handed over their power to the European Union.  I guess the alternative was bleak at the time.  I am surprised that Brexit came before Ireexit.  Personally I'm against all borders and flags between all nations.  They create long lasting divisions and result in bigotry, distrust, and war.  Better to abolish all borders and flags and grant universal freedom to all.  Or is this wishful thinking?

 

Edited September 29, 2018 by Aaron2016

[Habitat]

46 minutes ago, danydandan said:

I understand that.

But handing away our sovereignty is what happened.

One must have faith in one's own countrymen. Or emigrate !

[Black Monk]

1 hour ago, Ozymandias said:

It's called 'self determination', the freedom to choose for yourself. That is what counts. Our sovereignty - the will of the Irish people expressed through free democratic vote - is what they fought for and what we protect to this day. The EU has to consult the Irish people to implement substantial change.

You don't protect your sovereignty because you don't have any and you do not have self-determination. You are an EU state ruled from Brussels by unelected foreign technocrats. You may elect your Prime Minister, but he's nothing but the EU's b**** willing to meekly do whatever your EU overlords tell him to do, whether in the former country of Ireland's interests of otherwise.

Ireland is today a pathetic, pitiful and compliant former country inhabited by people who seem willing to have others rule them, whether British or EU.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Black Monk

[Ozymandias]

29 minutes ago, danydandan said:

I understand that.

But handing away our sovereignty is what happened

No, we didn't. Our Constitution states: 

We, the people of Éire ... Do hereby adopt, enact, and give to ourselves this Constitution. ...

Article 1: The irish nation hereby affirms its inalienable, indefeasible, and sovereign right to choose its own form of Government, to determine its relations with other nations, and to develop its life, political, economic and cultural, in accordance with its own genius and traditions....

Article 5:  Ireland is a sovereign, independent, democratic state. ...

Article 6: 1 All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right it is to designate the rulers of the state and, in final appeal, to decide all questions of national policy, according to the requirements of the common good.

We live by these principles. Those who say we do not are merely engaging in opinionated political posturing. Let them off! Anyone who thinks that Ireland should disengage from the EU and go it alone as an exercise in recovering some imagined loss of sovereignty does not understand the true nature of the situation. Having one's independence and sovereignty is all about negotiating for the national interest - the common good - and making informed decisions based upon the facts. Not everyone will agree, and they are entitled to their opinion, but that is how a democracy functions. And Ireland is a sovereign democracy.

[stevewinn]

18 minutes ago, Aaron2016 said:

No country is free under Brussels' legislations.  It is odd that Ireland fought for independence and then handed over their power to the European Union.  I guess the alternative was bleak at the time.  I am surprised that Brexit came before Ireexit.  Personally I'm against all borders and flags between all nations.  They create long lasting divisions and result in bigotry, distrust, and war.  Better to abolish all borders and flags and grant universal freedom to all.  Or is this wishful thinking?

 

Wishful thinking. 

9 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

No, we didn't. Our Constitution states: 

We, the people of Éire ... Do hereby adopt, enact, and give to ourselves this Constitution. ...

Article 1: The irish nation hereby affirms its inalienable, indefeasible, and sovereign right to choose its own form of Government, to determine its relations with other nations, and to develop its life, political, economic and cultural, in accordance with its own genius and traditions....

Article 5:  Ireland is a sovereign, independent, democratic state. ...

Article 6: 1 All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right it is to designate the rulers of the state and, in final appeal, to decide all questions of national policy, according to the requirements of the common good.

We live by these principles. Those who say we do not are merely engaging in opinionated political posturing. Let them off! Anyone who thinks that Ireland should disengage from the EU and go it alone as an exercise in recovering some imagined loss of sovereignty does not understand the true nature of the situation. Having one's independence and sovereignty is all about negotiating for the national interest - the common good - and making informed decisions based upon the facts. Not everyone will agree, and they are entitled to their opinion, but that is how a democracy functions. And Ireland is a sovereign democracy.

Your a vassal state with the clout of a medium sized city, with a leader more akin to a metro mayor. Your a prisoner of geography, lack territorial expansion to change that, very limited natural resources. and will always be at the mercy of others, your leaders then make decicions like a parish council under these very well defined and confined parameters. Such as you had no choice but to join the EU because the UK did. 

With a small 4 million population and currency to match, you had no choice but to peg your sovereign currency to the pound sterling. 

Through eu membership Ireland joined the Euro currency hoping that it would break the confined parameters and the reliance on the UK. And all you've done is swap one influencing power for another. 

EU membership helps you with territorial expansion, but doesn't solve it, it gives you a bigger and more robust currency on the world market, but in exchange for that, you've given up your sovereign currency, now using a foreign powers currency your unable to set your own interest rates. You've also handed over vast swathes of policy areas to a foreign political organisation, agriculture, industry, environment ect... Over 50% of your laws are made by someone else and if you don't like them tough. Your Irish courts are no longer the highest courts in the land no, a foreign political court is. 

At the end of the day its geopolitics - Ireland will always be a vassal state, it will always be under the influence of either the UK or the continents dominant force ie the EU. So the choice for Ireland is who's greater influence do you live under. The UK's or the EU's. And as long as these two exist Ireland will flip flop between them. 

You can go on pretending your sovereign but your not, you can pretend you've got free will but you haven't. The fact you exercise free will and then made to exercise it again in a second vote. 

Your anti-British hatred clouds your judgement. 

Let me ask this do you condone or condemn the actions of the Irish republics terrorist groups in their actions aginst the United Kingdom. 

 

[danydandan]

1 hour ago, Ozymandias said:

No, we didn't. Our Constitution states: 

We, the people of Éire ... Do hereby adopt, enact, and give to ourselves this Constitution. ...

Article 1: The irish nation hereby affirms its inalienable, indefeasible, and sovereign right to choose its own form of Government, to determine its relations with other nations, and to develop its life, political, economic and cultural, in accordance with its own genius and traditions....

Article 5:  Ireland is a sovereign, independent, democratic state. ...

Article 6: 1 All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right it is to designate the rulers of the state and, in final appeal, to decide all questions of national policy, according to the requirements of the common good.

We live by these principles. Those who say we do not are merely engaging in opinionated political posturing. Let them off! Anyone who thinks that Ireland should disengage from the EU and go it alone as an exercise in recovering some imagined loss of sovereignty does not understand the true nature of the situation. Having one's independence and sovereignty is all about negotiating for the national interest - the common good - and making informed decisions based upon the facts. Not everyone will agree, and they are entitled to their opinion, but that is how a democracy functions. And Ireland is a sovereign democracy.

Yeah, in writing it sounds good.

Will you be saying the same thing when in the next three to four years our corporate tax rate will no longer be under our government's control.

England has effectively the same, and they can't just leave the EU. So much for sovereignty eh!

31 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Wishful thinking. 

Your a vassal state with the clout of a medium sized city, with a leader more akin to a metro mayor. Your a prisoner of geography, lack territorial expansion to change that, very limited natural resources. and will always be at the mercy of others, your leaders then make decicions like a parish council under these very well defined and confined parameters. Such as you had no choice but to join the EU because the UK did. 

With a small 4 million population and currency to match, you had no choice but to peg your sovereign currency to the pound sterling. 

Through eu membership Ireland joined the Euro currency hoping that it would break the confined parameters and the reliance on the UK. And all you've done is swap one influencing power for another. 

EU membership helps you with territorial expansion, but doesn't solve it, it gives you a bigger and more robust currency on the world market, but in exchange for that, you've given up your sovereign currency, now using a foreign powers currency your unable to set your own interest rates. You've also handed over vast swathes of policy areas to a foreign political organisation, agriculture, industry, environment ect... Over 50% of your laws are made by someone else and if you don't like them tough. Your Irish courts are no longer the highest courts in the land no, a foreign political court is. 

At the end of the day its geopolitics - Ireland will always be a vassal state, it will always be under the influence of either the UK or the continents dominant force ie the EU. So the choice for Ireland is who's greater influence do you live under. The UK's or the EU's. And as long as these two exist Ireland will flip flop between them. 

You can go on pretending your sovereign but your not, you can pretend you've got free will but you haven't. The fact you exercise free will and then made to exercise it again in a second vote. 

Your anti-British hatred clouds your judgement. 

Let me ask this do you condone or condemn the actions of the Irish republics terrorist groups in their actions aginst the United Kingdom. 

 

In reality all Countries rely on others. The UK isn't self sufficient.

Edited September 29, 2018 by danydandan

[danydandan]

If you want to talk about Anglo Irish relationships, can you start another thread. This was supposed to be about a TV show highlighting historically minded dislike of England and if English people found it offensive. Or in a week we will find out how the show goes down. But the thread was intended for light-heartedness, it's now turned into a nationalist who dick is bigger contest.

Edit: I just hope the show is historically accurate. But historical accuracy is all relative.

Edited September 29, 2018 by danydandan

[danydandan]

3 hours ago, Habitat said:

I have Irish, English, and German ancestry, so can't take sides ! And am ashamed to say I have laughed at "Irish Jokes" ! But Dave Allen used to tell them, so they must be OK. One of the unkindest references to the Irish I've heard, was a "Lady" (wife of a Knight of the realm) refer to cobwebs as "Irish Lace". 

If you can't laugh at yourself who can you laugh at?

1 hour ago, Habitat said:

One must have faith in one's own countrymen. Or emigrate !

I do have faith in some not all. Political allegiances are destroying our country and others.

[danydandan]

24 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Let me ask this do you condone or condemn the actions of the Irish republics terrorist groups in their actions aginst the United Kingdom. 

Where and when was the line drawn between a group fighting for independence called revolutionaries and what you deem terrorism groups?

Do you consider the American groups fighting for independence terrorist? How about the Indian revolutionaries? What about the Nigerian's or Malawi's? Were they all terrorist groups?

Edited September 29, 2018 by danydandan

[Black Monk]

46 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Yeah, in writing it sounds good.

Will you be saying the same thing when in the next three to four years our corporate tax rate will no longer be under our government's control.

England has effectively the same, and they can't just leave the EU. So much for sovereignty eh!

In reality all Countries rely on others. The UK isn't self sufficient.

Ireland isn't a country, though. It's an EU state.

[Black Monk]

23 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Where and when was the line drawn between a group fighting for independence called revolutionaries and what you deem terrorism groups?

Do you consider the American groups fighting for independence terrorist? How about the Indian revolutionaries? What about the Nigerian's or Malawi's? Were they all terrorist groups?

The IRA were terrorists.

[danydandan]

14 minutes ago, Black Monk said:

Ireland isn't a country, though. It's an EU state.

So is the UK. Well done.

[danydandan]

20 minutes ago, Black Monk said:

The IRA were terrorists.

Care to elaborate? They certainly turned into terrorists. Like I asked where does one draw the line? Can you answer that?

Edited September 29, 2018 by danydandan

[Black Monk]

6 minutes ago, danydandan said:

So is the UK. Well done.

Yeah, but it's leaving.

[Black Monk]

6 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Care to elaborate?

Well the IRA were terrorists. Just let's leave it as simple as that.

[stevewinn]

7 minutes ago, danydandan said:

So is the UK. Well done.

No there is a difference as one of the great powers of Europe the UK along with Germany France and lesser extent Italy shaped the Union. The fact the UK retained its own sovereign currency means we narrowly avoid being a vassal state, imagine if we tried to leave whilst also being in the Euro. 

[danydandan]

7 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

No there is a difference as one of the great powers of Europe the UK along with Germany France and lesser extent Italy shaped the Union. The fact the UK retained its own sovereign currency means we narrowly avoid being a vassal state, imagine if we tried to leave whilst also being in the Euro. 

Ireland's biggest regret is taking the Euro. The government would have made a fortune in exchanges, with all the American companies here.

Then what's the need for negotiations to leave if your a sovereign Country?

Edited September 29, 2018 by danydandan