Possible evidence of the Exodus found in Jordan

[Kenemet]

10 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

Sethi:
Let the name of Moses be stricken from every book and tablet. Stricken from every pylon and obelisk of Egypt. Let the name of Moses be unheard and unspoken, erased from the memory of man, for all time.

That won't wash.  Damnato memorii was practiced on individuals; not nations and in any case it's easy to tell when something's been erased because they had a very specific way of doing it.  

The quote shown isn't from the Bible (nor from the alternate texts); it's something made up by the filmmaker.   The only remark is Exodus 2:15 "Now when Pharaoh heard this thing, he sought to slay Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh, and dwelt in the land of Midian: and he sat down by a well."   There's nothing about erasing names or damnato memorii.

 Movies aren't evidence of anything but the filmmaker's imagination.  

The Hebrews (Semitic speaking Israelites) certainly don't appear as distinct from the Canaanites much earlier than 1400 BC.

See Biblical Archaeological Library for notes on Shasu/Habiru: https://www.baslibrary.org/biblical-archaeology-review/34/6/9

[Piney]

11 hours ago, Kenemet said:

 Movies aren't evidence of anything but the filmmaker's imagination.  

Charlton Heston wasn't historically accurate????

You have ruined American Bible studies for me! I'm never speaking to you again!!! 

[Wistman]

5 minutes ago, Piney said:

Charlton Heston wasn't historically accurate????

You have ruined American Bible studies for me! I'm never speaking to you again!!! 

Not to mention what a bad actor Heston was.  Every time I see this film or clips from it (at the end of his life, Dad more-or-less identified in a humorous way with Seti's onscreen persona, so we watched it a lot) I half expect Cedric Hardwicke to roll his eyes in reaction to Heston's hammy delivery.  

[Harte]

1 hour ago, The Wistman said:

Not to mention what a bad actor Heston was.  Every time I see this film or clips from it (at the end of his life, Dad more-or-less identified in a humorous way with Seti's onscreen persona, so we watched it a lot) I half expect Cedric Hardwicke to roll his eyes in reaction to Heston's hammy delivery.  

Harte

[jaylemurph]

50 minutes ago, Harte said:

Harte

It’s people!

—Jaylemurph 

[Orphalesion]

The Charlton Heston Moses was such a dumbass. If he had stayed a Prince it would have led to an infinitely better outcome for everybody involved. He would have become Pharaoh, he could have given the Hebrews some province to settle in as a free people. He could have changed slave laws to prevent others from falling into it. He would have been happy, the people would have been happy, the lady in the unhistorical glamour makeup would have been happy, everybody would have been happy. And all with a lot less baby killing and desert wandering.

I always found the Prince of Egypt to be a more relatable interpretation of the story.

[+Pettytalk]

2 hours ago, The Wistman said:

Not to mention what a bad actor Heston was.  Every time I see this film or clips from it (at the end of his life, Dad more-or-less identified in a humorous way with Seti's onscreen persona, so we watched it a lot) I half expect Cedric Hardwicke to roll his eyes in reaction to Heston's hammy delivery.  

You are now stepping on holy ground, my holy ground. I grew up with Charlton Heston. And the first time I saw the Ten Commandments as a youngster, I was so moved by Mr..Heston's acting that I thought I was watching the real Moses, although a better Moses would have stuttered, as Moses, we are told, was slow of speech. No doubt sir Hardwicke was the better dramatic actor, and who I hold as one of the better actors, where Charles Laughton is the summit, and who was, perhaps, the greatest British actor, overall. Brenner, and the rest of the cast, along with the, then, spectacular special effects and the extravagant set, made for a great epic movie under the direction and narration of the great Cecil B. DeMille,

 

[Wistman]

47 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

You are now stepping on holy ground, my holy ground. I grew up with Charlton Heston. And the first time I saw the Ten Commandments as a youngster, I was so moved by Mr..Heston's acting that I thought I was watching the real Moses, although a better Moses would have stuttered, as Moses, we are told, was slow of speech. No doubt sir Hardwicke was the better dramatic actor, and who I hold as one of the better actors, where Charles Laughton is the summit, and who was, perhaps, the greatest British actor, overall. Brenner, and the rest of the cast, along with the, then, spectacular special effects and the extravagant set, made for a great epic movie under the direction and narration of the great Cecil B. DeMille,

 

Well I intend no insult to your iconic actor, Petty.  It's just my opinion after all.  But I think he overacts badly in this film, as do Anne Baxter and Edward G. Robinson, among others.  Hardwicke is great, as always, in my view.  For me, Laughton is the most magnificent British film actor followed by Guinness, Olivier, O'toole, etc.  For the old timers that is.  IMHO of course.  I'm actually not fond of DeMille's non-silent films...he's a silent film director at heart, and it shows.

Incidentally, Both Laughton and Hardwicke are at their best in Hunchback of Notre Dame....my pick for a film of greatness.

         

Edited May 28, 2019 by The Wistman

[+Pettytalk]

6 minutes ago, The Wistman said:

Well I intend no insult to your iconic actor, Petty.  It's just my opinion after all.  But I think he overacts badly in this film, as do Anne Baxter and Edward G. Robinson, among others.  Hardwicke is great, as always, in my view.  For me, Laughton is the most magnificent British film actor followed by Guinness, Olivier, O'toole, etc.  For the old timers that is.  IMHO of course.  I'm actually not fond of DeMille's non-silent films...he's a silent film director at heart, and it shows.

No insult taken, my friend, because, as usual, I was wanting to inject a little of my bad humor with my "not so honest" comment on Heston. And you have given a good review opinion, and I cannot really not agree with it, as you have listed some of the best actors in the world, and not just British. Yes, for old timers like me, these were some of greatest. Heston was considered a good iconic actor by the masses, only because of the "good" characters he portrayed, even if badly, acting wise. Still, good or bad, they will all live in eternity to forever entertain us.

[Kenemet]

7 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

The Charlton Heston Moses was such a dumbass. If he had stayed a Prince it would have led to an infinitely better outcome for everybody involved. He would have become Pharaoh, he could have given the Hebrews some province to settle in as a free people. He could have changed slave laws to prevent others from falling into it. He would have been happy, the people would have been happy, the lady in the unhistorical glamour makeup would have been happy, everybody would have been happy. And all with a lot less baby killing and desert wandering.
 

But that's the Bible version.  The other one... I have no idea about.

[Golden Duck]

On 28/05/2019 at 1:45 PM, jmccr8 said:

Hi Piney

Thanks, had a quick scan and will take a closer look but hmm well looks kinda out there but will reserve judgment till after having a few laughs, I mean gleaned some insights.

jmccr8

Yeah, I'm gonna say I couldn't resist clicking on this link.

http://www.britam.org/BAPoetry6.html#Sinim

But I'm not taking the blame for any reemergence or creation of threads.

[Piney]

39 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

But I'm not taking the blame for any reemergence or creation of threads.

That is the worse poetry I have ever seen. 

It makes Vogons look artistic...........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxPeIiU2kx4

[Golden Duck]

6 minutes ago, Piney said:

That is the worse poetry I have ever seen. 

It makes Vogons look artistic...........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxPeIiU2kx4

It looks like they couldn't even think of a rhyme for Vegemite!

[Coil]

On 5/27/2019 at 6:15 AM, Kenemet said:

it's showing four Libyans, one Nubian, one "Asiatic" and one Egyptian.  None of them are slaves and none are Israelites/Hebrews.

That's right, they are not on the fresco but do you know from what nation the Jews originated?

 

[jaylemurph]

9 minutes ago, Coil said:

That's right, they are not on the fresco but do you know from what nation the Jews originated?

 

...yes. Yes, we do. As is amply demonstrated to any literate person above. 

But for ****s and giggles, why don’t you tell us whatever it is you think, since you’re clearly gormlessly fishing for that...

—Jaylemurph 

[Coil]

No, you have to search for yourself because you don’t trust me.

[Orphalesion]

8 hours ago, Kenemet said:

But that's the Bible version.  The other one... I have no idea about.

Yeah it's the Bible version, but iirc in the Bible we don't get very many details. He's a prince, he kills somebody and runs away to escape the death penalty. In the Charlton Heston movie however he's very highly regarded by the Pharaoh, is considered his successor and everybody is happy. Until he discovers he's the son of a Hebrew slave and  out of his own decision throws everything away and joins them in the slave pits and iirc it's only then that he kills an Egyptian and runs away.
So he really is the dumbest version of the character and ultimately to blame for every resulting death, from the firstborn of Egypt to every one of his tribesmen who succumbed to the 40 years of desert wandering. Plus he didn't appear to be aware that the ancient Hebrews also have slaves, because he went on and on about how evil that practice was (and yeah it is from a modern standpoint, but back then it existed in most cultures. Then again, Exodus isn't exactly a historical tale so...) 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Orphalesion

[Megaro]

On 5/28/2019 at 12:35 AM, Kenemet said:

Movies aren't evidence of anything but the filmmaker's imagination.  

True, however, "The Ten Commandments" seems like a highly accurate historical film when compared to "Land of the Pharaohs" from 1955 with Jack Hawkins portraying Pharaoh Khufu.  The sealing of the pyramid in that movie is truly something to behold if you appreciate the willing suspension of disbelief as a viewer.

 

[Hanslune]

1 hour ago, Megaro said:

True, however, "The Ten Commandments" seems like a highly accurate historical film when compared to "Land of the Pharaohs" from 1955 with Jack Hawkins portraying Pharaoh Khufu.  The sealing of the pyramid in that movie is truly something to behold if you appreciate the willing suspension of disbelief as a viewer.

 

4:29 minutes in length after a 5 second ad. Quite .... something

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Hanslune said:

4:29 minutes in length after a 5 second ad. Quite .... something

Where's the Egyptians? 

[Kenemet]

19 hours ago, Coil said:

That's right, they are not on the fresco but do you know from what nation the Jews originated?

 

Canaanites are what I've read. https://historum.com/threads/a-basic-glossary-of-jewish-identities-and-concepts.39656/

[cormac mac airt]

10 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

Canaanites are what I've read. https://historum.com/threads/a-basic-glossary-of-jewish-identities-and-concepts.39656/

And you would be right. Especially genetically. 

cormac

[jaylemurph]

18 hours ago, Coil said:

No, you have to search for yourself because you don’t trust me.

There’s only so far I’m going to indulge your ego. Tell us or don’t, but don’t pull this mystical guru bull****. It doesn't work for people even a lot smarter than you, so you don’t have a snowball’s of pulling it off. 

—Jaylemurph  

[Coil]

3 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Canaanites are what I've read. https://historum.com/threads/a-basic-glossary-of-jewish-identities-and-concepts.39656/

If the Jews were Canaanites in the past, why did the Jews kill the Canaanites after leaving Egypt, that is, their own people in order to settle in the promised land? The discrepancy goes so the Jews can not be Cananeans.

Canaan in general is the name of the land and the people who inhabited it were numerous. And the Jews start to be mentioned only during their stay in Egypt and formed as a people when they left it, therefore some separate people came to Egypt and to Canaan.

And if the Jews do not know/ lost or deliberately hide from whom they occurred, then there is some reason to hide it. Either their past is not so important as they took shape clearly when Moses brought them out of Egypt and received instructions from the fiery bush.

 

[Opus Magnus]

If there was a Pharoah Thutmoses III then this was most likely Moses' adoptive father. By similarity of name also their dates are very close together at both in the 1400 BC. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by Opus Magnus